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Fire Pace and Nagy


beardown3231
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11 hours ago, JAF-N72EX said:

An agenda to needlesly make Pace look as bad as possible just to support your claim even if it means ignoring facts and context (i.e blaming Pace for White's unforseen injury and falsely tagging Floyd "a bust" and a "Offball LB" just to prove a wrongful point).

History says otherwise, as I've already pointed out.

Yeah I said this in a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT context regarding a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT portion of our argument.

What the hell does this have to do with my response to a statement that you made?

Oh, so you spent X amount of years complaining about Pace hiring Nagy but now you just don't care? So the parameters have changed now between GMs. Got it.

So lets go back a bit on Nagy here in how it pertains to Pace just to get **** straight. You have claimed that you didn't like Nagy (just like Eberflus) and had been down on him since the opener of the GB game, correct? (That's a rhetorical question because we both know the answer is yes).

So does this mean if Eberflus does the same thing in week 1 that your gonna start calling for heads in the same way then, right? Remember, keep the same energy.

it's about as pretentious as prematurely calling Quinn a "bust FA' when he was injured and adding it to the list of Pace's failures.

In most cases I agree, but it's a very apt statement to my point.  Remember when you were accusing me of not making a stand for one side or the other (I'm paraphrasing) in the Week 1 thread ?  (Internet data says you viewed the thread 6  hours ago-- to probably prepare your response for this thread-- so I'm sure you read it). If not let me know and I'll point you in the right direction.

So wouldn't you file that in the same category? Or is that different now?

My point is that people who had an issue with Pace/Nagy and who also voiced their opinions on Poles/Eberflus before the media could tell them what to say (like yourself and Madmike) is a MUCH more respectable approach than those like the other clowns here who have suddenly curled up into a ball just so they can say later on "I knew it" ---like the OP for example.

Watch this. @beardown3231 , what's your opinion on Poles/Eb? What's the media telling you to say? Earlier this week you questioned me about not liking a DC as HC? Why was that? *insert ambiguous artificial responses from social media*

Calling people slow is just stupid.

Oh yeah... I get it. But that still doesn't answer my question does it?

So you think it was Pace's choice to sign Dalton and Foles and not Nagy and Lazors? That's ridiculous.

I' gotta go and I'll finish the rest of this later.

 

What are you talking about? Why am I being brought into this? If you would read posts without an AGENDA you would realize I have written that the Bears are now guilty until proven innocent to me. I'm done being optimistic with the Bears. Eberflus and Poles may turn out great, but if George has taught me anything it's that he sucks at his job. I truly expect to be doing this again in 4-5 years

Yes, I asked why you didn't want a defensive mind at HC. You ignored me. You evidently were assuming- due to your AGENDA- that I was being a d*** by asking. I was truly asking why you didn't want a defensive coach which would've led me into asking "who did you want as a coach?" and you evidently saved it up to bash me in a post to another member for absolutely no reason whatsoever. You think everyone here is against you. It was a question to have conversation. Instead you believe everything is controversial and argumentative

You whine and complain *constantly* about the posters here ("you guys") yet here you are, taking time out of your day for us peons. Maybe create your own football message board. Perhaps make every potential member take a football IQ test prior to being able to post. Sometimes the trash takes itself out. You ought to follow suit

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10 hours ago, JAF-N72EX said:

An agenda to needlesly make Pace look as bad as possible just to support your claim even if it means ignoring facts and context (i.e blaming Pace for White's unforseen injury and falsely tagging Floyd "a bust" and a "Offball LB" just to prove a wrongful point).

I've given Pace credit plenty of times and defended him time and time again early on and you're just making up things like this. You get annoyed about me putting words in your mouth then you stand there repeating the same false narrative. Saying I blame Pace for White's injury is ridiculous. See for yourself how stupid you sound.

 

On 9/10/2017 at 8:35 PM, Sugashane said:

It sucks but Pace took a swing and this was never something that could have been predicted. This wasn't a violent history or anything or even pre-existing condition overlooked and for all account he was a good teammate.

But yes I blame Pace according to you. Granted that fits your own agenda. Regardless of the reason the outcome was poor. It can happen to anyone and yes if Poles has the same issue, yes it will still be a negative.

10 hours ago, JAF-N72EX said:

Yeah I said this in a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT context regarding a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT portion of our argument.

What the hell does this have to do with my response to a statement that you made?

I'll connect the dots. You're saying I'm not flipping out about Eberflus so I'm holding Poles to a different standard against Pace. Eberflus has done nothing to flip out about, nor has Poles. He hasn't tanked a team that was built up for him, he hasn't made his unit massively underperform. Let Eberflus do a crap job before thrashing Poles for a bad hire. I wanted an offensive coach, shockingly they fail too. Let there ACTUALLY be data (wins, losses, playoff performances) against Poles to bash him.

My claim was never that Pace was a bad person, it was that he picked a guy who turned out to be a bad HC (who I was a fan of signing due to the Reid connection and hoped he was a big part of Alex Smith's solid years) . IDGAD about Pace, if he was terrible at drafting but still got playoff wins then I'd be happy to keep trading picks to keep winning. The wins matter more than HOW they get there. Nagy could have ran the Navy offense or thrown more than Leach, I wanted him to put up points and win games. He didn't do that well at all.

10 hours ago, JAF-N72EX said:

Oh, so you spent X amount of years complaining about Pace hiring Nagy but now you just don't care? So the parameters have changed now between GMs. Got it.

Supported the signing even if he wasn't my top choice, then saw how poor the offense performed and how he was propped up by the defense. Using his actual performance against him is wrong? How many losses has Eberflus (and by extension Poles) lost so far?

Weird how parameters haven't even been met to make a negative judgement for me, but YOU can't get off your high horse.

10 hours ago, JAF-N72EX said:

So lets go back a bit on Nagy here in how it pertains to Pace just to get **** straight. You have claimed that you didn't like Nagy (just like Eberflus) and had been down on him since the opener of the GB game, correct? (That's a rhetorical question because we both know the answer is yes).

I didn't like his PLAYCALLING early on. Get it right dude. Yes his playcalling was poor. Pointing out something being poor isn't a character defamation.  I even said I thought he'd improve with more experience. He just really didn't much, if at all.

Here since you say I've always hated Nagy and like a senile old man you can't get past it, here is proof otherwise.

On 11/20/2017 at 5:47 PM, Sugashane said:

My shortlist is Nagy, Reich, and Lafleur.

I was desperate to get Tru as much help as possible and Nagy didn't pan out. But I hated him from day one?

 

10 hours ago, JAF-N72EX said:

So does this mean if Eberflus does the same thing in week 1 that your gonna start calling for heads in the same way then, right? Remember, keep the same energy.

Didn't call for Nagy's head week one, but facts don't work out for you. Sorry, a critique doesn't mean I invaded anyone's safe-spaces. (Not claiming you call for them, just making a point). Eberflus won't get special treatment from me, if he sucks he sucks. 

Same energy, make sure you do the same protecting them no matter what.

 

10 hours ago, JAF-N72EX said:

it's about as pretentious as prematurely calling Quinn a "bust FA' when he was injured and adding it to the list of Pace's failures.

He performed terribly last year and performed well this year. Yes, I absolutely questioned the legitimacy of his injury. Do you think Pace and Nagy are perfectly honest?

More data changes opinions. You know that. There were absolute concerns and I said age could be a factor too. You weren't concerned at all?

 

On 2/17/2021 at 4:50 PM, JAF-N72EX said:

Quinn is a legit concern. Not worried about Mack or Jackson.

On 12/9/2020 at 11:44 PM, JAF-N72EX said:

Yep, we're stuck with Quinn unless we can somehow persuade another team trade for him. Or convince Quinn to take a pay cut after only 1 year. Which is highly unlikely. The only other option after that is to cut him and eat the loss. 

Ruh roh... Someone has been talking out of their ***... Doesn't sound like you were near as confident in Quinn was going to be the good signing after last year as you're making it sound...

 

10 hours ago, JAF-N72EX said:

So wouldn't you file that in the same category? Or is that different now?

My point is that people who had an issue with Pace/Nagy and who also voiced their opinions on Poles/Eberflus before the media could tell them what to say (like yourself and Madmike) is a MUCH more respectable approach than those like the other clowns here who have suddenly curled up into a ball just so they can say later on "I knew it" ---like the OP for example.

Ok this I understand. I thought you were saying I personally was doing that and clearly misunderstood. That's my bad, sorry.

10 hours ago, JAF-N72EX said:

Calling people slow is just stupid.

That was crappy of me. Again my bad. But the cowards and no balls comment was equally ridiculous.

10 hours ago, JAF-N72EX said:

Oh yeah... I get it. But that still doesn't answer my question does it?

So you think it was Pace's choice to sign Dalton and Foles and not Nagy and Lazors? That's ridiculous.

I' gotta go and I'll finish the rest of this later.

 

I think Pace - with all his experience scouting, watching pro players, etc he should have KNOWN that they weren't going to elevate their team. He knew his job was on the line (no way he was too stupid to know his seat was hot). Did Nagy want them? I'm sure he requested them, but Pace should have known that they weren't going to save his job.

Pace had executive control, he didn't have to cave to any requests Nagy had, and by then he clearly knew Nagy was a bad hire if he had any competence (which he does). So if he thought Foles or Dalton were going to solve Nagy's issues then he isn't near as good of a GM as you seem to think. If he will draft Tru without Fox even knowing then there is no question he was the one in control of allowing Foles and Dalton to be Bears - regardless of Lazor or Nagy's requests.

 

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https://bearswire.usatoday.com/2022/01/29/bears-allen-robinson-matt-nagy-bailed-on-exit-interview-2020-season/

According to a feature by The Athletic‘s Adam Jahns and Kevin Fishbain, Nagy once blew off a meeting with quarterback Mitch Trubisky following the 2019 season. Now, a new story is surfacing from wide receiver Allen Robinson, who also got the cold shoulder from Nagy.

Robinson appeared on the Cut to It podcast with Steve Smith, where he explained how Nagy never had an exit interview with Robinson, as is custom, following the 2020 season.

“It wasn’t that I didn’t talk to him, we didn’t talk,” Robinson said. “I’m gonna say, ‘We didn’t talk,’ because from the time the season ended, on the plane after the Saints game, the following 24 to 48 hours, there’s some sort of exit meetings. For us, because of COVID, that was supposed to scheduled with the head coach and management, or whoever they were coordinating that, via Zoom. Talked to the receivers coach, talked to equipment, everybody else. Few days go by, no Zoom link. Week go by, no Zoom link.

“I was a pending free agent at that point. I didn’t know which direction they were wanting to go, either way or not, So for me, I’m waiting for that exit meeting so we can talk about this thing. Like, what do you all see, or think, in the foreseeable future, just to five me an idea. So for me it it’s supposed to be a Zoom link sent out to me, cool. Alright, I’m waiting for that Zoom link so we can chop it up and see what’s up. Even from a football side, from how do we improve next year? A week go by, no Zoom link. Two weeks, no Zoom. Now January, we’re into February, nope.”

With a new regime in place following the firings of Nagy and GM Ryan Pace, you have to wonder if perhaps new GM Ryan Poles and head coach Matt Eberflus could somehow convince Robinson to return.

In a way, it would be a clean slate with a new regime in place. But the more likely option is Robinson exploring free agency and finding the most bang for his buck.

Another new story out about Nagy and him just not speaking to players...doesn't sound like this will ever be the Poles or Eberflus way...do they try and convince him to stay? Was their no chemistry with Fields or no plan to get him the ball? Could he be next years Robert Quinn? All very interesting in this new light.

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3 minutes ago, Madmike90 said:

https://bearswire.usatoday.com/2022/01/29/bears-allen-robinson-matt-nagy-bailed-on-exit-interview-2020-season/

According to a feature by The Athletic‘s Adam Jahns and Kevin Fishbain, Nagy once blew off a meeting with quarterback Mitch Trubisky following the 2019 season. Now, a new story is surfacing from wide receiver Allen Robinson, who also got the cold shoulder from Nagy.

Robinson appeared on the Cut to It podcast with Steve Smith, where he explained how Nagy never had an exit interview with Robinson, as is custom, following the 2020 season.

“It wasn’t that I didn’t talk to him, we didn’t talk,” Robinson said. “I’m gonna say, ‘We didn’t talk,’ because from the time the season ended, on the plane after the Saints game, the following 24 to 48 hours, there’s some sort of exit meetings. For us, because of COVID, that was supposed to scheduled with the head coach and management, or whoever they were coordinating that, via Zoom. Talked to the receivers coach, talked to equipment, everybody else. Few days go by, no Zoom link. Week go by, no Zoom link.

“I was a pending free agent at that point. I didn’t know which direction they were wanting to go, either way or not, So for me, I’m waiting for that exit meeting so we can talk about this thing. Like, what do you all see, or think, in the foreseeable future, just to five me an idea. So for me it it’s supposed to be a Zoom link sent out to me, cool. Alright, I’m waiting for that Zoom link so we can chop it up and see what’s up. Even from a football side, from how do we improve next year? A week go by, no Zoom link. Two weeks, no Zoom. Now January, we’re into February, nope.”

With a new regime in place following the firings of Nagy and GM Ryan Pace, you have to wonder if perhaps new GM Ryan Poles and head coach Matt Eberflus could somehow convince Robinson to return.

In a way, it would be a clean slate with a new regime in place. But the more likely option is Robinson exploring free agency and finding the most bang for his buck.

Another new story out about Nagy and him just not speaking to players...doesn't sound like this will ever be the Poles or Eberflus way...do they try and convince him to stay? Was their no chemistry with Fields or no plan to get him the ball? Could he be next years Robert Quinn? All very interesting in this new light.

If this is legit that Nagy basically iced him out and gameplanned him out of mattering I’d 100% take him back. It certainly seems like things were designed away from him, because his targets were low no matter who was playing QB. Outside of week 1 he never saw more than 7 targets in any game, and he only got as many of 7 once.

If bringing him back is a move being considered (and I think it has to be) I hope Poles reaches out to his camp soon.

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24 minutes ago, AZBearsFan said:

If this is legit that Nagy basically iced him out and gameplanned him out of mattering I’d 100% take him back. It certainly seems like things were designed away from him, because his targets were low no matter who was playing QB. Outside of week 1 he never saw more than 7 targets in any game, and he only got as many of 7 once.

If bringing him back is a move being considered (and I think it has to be) I hope Poles reaches out to his camp soon.

I'm unsure if it is my own bias or maybe he was just checking out but if he is coming back they all need to get on board and talk. Fields, ARob, Poles, Eberflus, the OC, etc. There seemed to be a lack of effort at times but if it was Nagy shutting him out then I can understand him being super frustrated. Maybe he was protecting himself for FA or maybe he just didn't expect to get his name called and thought he was going to be the decoy.

One of the traits I do like about Eberflus is his effort grading. Hopefully he and ARob get lock in step that there is no cruising but there is also never going to be a freeze out and he will be a top piece for the offense to focus on - and Fields will need to be comfortable with ARob too. IF he is going to get the big contract or even a bigger 1-2 year deal they don't want buyers' remorse.

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1 hour ago, Sugashane said:

I'm unsure if it is my own bias or maybe he was just checking out but if he is coming back they all need to get on board and talk. Fields, ARob, Poles, Eberflus, the OC, etc. There seemed to be a lack of effort at times but if it was Nagy shutting him out then I can understand him being super frustrated. Maybe he was protecting himself for FA or maybe he just didn't expect to get his name called and thought he was going to be the decoy.

The thing I read (which I thought was widely circulated, but maybe it wasn't) was Robinson stating that Nagy promised him that he was going to push hard for a long term contract for Robinson...and then never did, and as we all know, Robinson didn't get that contract. 

As a result, the two basically didn't even speak all season long. 

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24 minutes ago, Heinz D. said:

The thing I read (which I thought was widely circulated, but maybe it wasn't) was Robinson stating that Nagy promised him that he was going to push hard for a long term contract for Robinson...and then never did, and as we all know, Robinson didn't get that contract. 

As a result, the two basically didn't even speak all season long. 

If so that is incredibly stupid. Now did it happen or not? No clue. But if  Halas Hall was that dysfunctional then it really needed purged. It's hard to be a unified front with a lack of communication. Like when rumors of Nagy being cut after the Thanksgiving game circulated there should have been immediate action from Pace and George. Even if it was just them telling the Bears PR to post something contradicting it and saying it was directly from them. It doesn't have to be a full-blown meet and greet with the media.

After there was the lull between the 'announcement' and it being squashed, it just caused more talk of how there was a rift between Nagy and Pace, or the players losing faith in Nagy, etc. If top brass steps up immediately after that article or twitter post then it makes the Bears at least look like a much more unified front.

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23 minutes ago, Sugashane said:

If so that is incredibly stupid. Now did it happen or not? No clue. 

We'll probably never know for sure...but locking Nagy in as a lying, two-faced bastard doesn't seem much of a reach, for me. I mean...just look at his press conferences? 

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3 hours ago, Sugashane said:

I'm unsure if it is my own bias or maybe he was just checking out but if he is coming back they all need to get on board and talk. Fields, ARob, Poles, Eberflus, the OC, etc. There seemed to be a lack of effort at times but if it was Nagy shutting him out then I can understand him being super frustrated. Maybe he was protecting himself for FA or maybe he just didn't expect to get his name called and thought he was going to be the decoy.

One of the traits I do like about Eberflus is his effort grading. Hopefully he and ARob get lock in step that there is no cruising but there is also never going to be a freeze out and he will be a top piece for the offense to focus on - and Fields will need to be comfortable with ARob too. IF he is going to get the big contract or even a bigger 1-2 year deal they don't want buyers' remorse.

I agree on the get together. ARob if he’s on the roster should be a huge part of it. As to the avoiding buyer’s remorse I would expect any longer term contract they do for him will have some outs after year 2 for just that reason.

An engaged and involved Allen Robinson is as good as any WR hitting the market outside of Adams (who I can’t see us having a shot at - he’s either gonna be in GB or with a more established contender IMO), and we have a 7-week window before FA where only we can negotiate with him. If he’s a piece we want to keep we need to move sooner than later to lock that in. A clean slate in the head coach’s office and in the GM’s office may very well change the tone moving forward. If I’m Poles, once I have my OC in place I’m getting together with he and Robinson and talking to him about how I want to use him in the offense, and if that’s something to which he wants to be a part then toss Kenny Golladay’s contract on the table (with its $4.473M year 1 cap hit) and say let’s start here and hammer this thing out. 

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