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Fire Pace and Nagy


beardown3231

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24 minutes ago, abstract_thought said:

Ownership would have to review the contracts Pace wants to give out.

Not sure how you stop him from trading away picks.

You simply tell him he cant.  That's how you make sure he doesnt. And thus idea that he is reckless with trading away picks us a totally false narrative.  Ge has done it twice.  Once to acquire Anthony Miller, which everyone lauded at the time, and once to acquire Mack, which again nobody had an problem with.  Pace has been real good about maneuvering the board to acquire additional draft capital from what he started with pretty much every year.  Another false narrative.  It drives me insane, if you dont like a guy that's fine, criticize him with facts or just come out and say I don't like him, but you shouldn't have to make stuff up to criticize someone legitimately.  When I criticize Nagy, I give facts, examples.  I can point to offensive stubbornness, lack of player development. I can also give credit where its do, the lockeroom loves the dude.  Let's look at the actual facts.

Nagys frp

Stood Pat, drafted Kevin White, bust

Traded up for Leonard Floyd using a 4th rounder, good player.  Not the standout pass rusher he was drafted to be.

Traded up for Mitch Trubisky using 2 3rds and a 4th, bust, but not a mortgage the future trade

Stood pat, drafted Roquan Smith, hit

Used 2019 and 2020 to acquire Khalil Mack.  Also got back 2nd rounder in 2020.  Hit, obviously.  Really this trade was the equivalent of a 1st and 3rd for Mack straight up.  Yeah I'd so that trade every single day.

So where has Pace been careless with trades.  Criticize the picks.  The trades have been fine.  This of course is also ignoring the trades down that Pace did to reacquire picks in rounds that he used picks from.  

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4 minutes ago, Superman(DH23) said:

You simply tell him he cant.  That's how you make sure he doesnt. And thus idea that he is reckless with trading away picks us a totally false narrative.  Ge has done it twice.  Once to acquire Anthony Miller, which everyone lauded at the time, and once to acquire Mack, which again nobody had an problem with.  Pace has been real good about maneuvering the board to acquire additional draft capital from what he started with pretty much every year.  Another false narrative.  It drives me insane, if you dont like a guy that's fine, criticize him with facts or just come out and say I don't like him, but you shouldn't have to make stuff up to criticize someone legitimately.  When I criticize Nagy, I give facts, examples.  I can point to offensive stubbornness, lack of player development. I can also give credit where its do, the lockeroom loves the dude.  Let's look at the actual facts.

Nagys frp

Stood Pat, drafted Kevin White, bust

Traded up for Leonard Floyd using a 4th rounder, good player.  Not the standout pass rusher he was drafted to be.

Traded up for Mitch Trubisky using 2 3rds and a 4th, bust, but not a mortgage the future trade

Stood pat, drafted Roquan Smith, hit

Used 2019 and 2020 to acquire Khalil Mack.  Also got back 2nd rounder in 2020.  Hit, obviously.  Really this trade was the equivalent of a 1st and 3rd for Mack straight up.  Yeah I'd so that trade every single day.

So where has Pace been careless with trades.  Criticize the picks.  The trades have been fine.  This of course is also ignoring the trades down that Pace did to reacquire picks in rounds that he used picks from.  

He has traded up a number of times in the draft.

It has limited the amount of picks that he has and the chances to add players.

 

He does not draft well enough to be so flippant with picks.

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Just now, WindyCity said:

He has traded up a number of times in the draft.

It has limited the amount of picks that he has and the chances to add players.

 

He does not draft well enough to be so flippant with picks.

Give me the flippant trade Windy.  Not the pick, the trade.  An example of a trade that hamstrung their ability to acquire talent.  He drafts really well in every round but the first.  The only guy outside the first where you would say he totally missed was Adam Shaheen.  That is why this team is competitive even with a disadvantage at QB, because while you want probowlers and all pros in the first, 2-6 is where you build the foundation of your team.  The Bears have a very strong foundation, entirely setup by Ryan Pace.  

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3 minutes ago, Superman(DH23) said:

Give me the flippant trade Windy.  Not the pick, the trade.  An example of a trade that hamstrung their ability to acquire talent.  He drafts really well in every round but the first.  The only guy outside the first where you would say he totally missed was Adam Shaheen.  That is why this team is competitive even with a disadvantage at QB, because while you want probowlers and all pros in the first, 2-6 is where you build the foundation of your team.  The Bears have a very strong foundation, entirely setup by Ryan Pace.  

Trubisky 3 picks that could have been used.

Floyd 1

Miller 1

Foles 1

 

You need to draft some elite talent. You cannot be a roster of solid players and expect to compete with teams who have elite players.

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18 minutes ago, Superman(DH23) said:

You simply tell him he cant.  That's how you make sure he doesnt. And thus idea that he is reckless with trading away picks us a totally false narrative.  Ge has done it twice.  Once to acquire Anthony Miller, which everyone lauded at the time, and once to acquire Mack, which again nobody had an problem with.  Pace has been real good about maneuvering the board to acquire additional draft capital from what he started with pretty much every year.  Another false narrative.  It drives me insane, if you dont like a guy that's fine, criticize him with facts or just come out and say I don't like him, but you shouldn't have to make stuff up to criticize someone legitimately.  When I criticize Nagy, I give facts, examples.  I can point to offensive stubbornness, lack of player development. I can also give credit where its do, the lockeroom loves the dude.  Let's look at the actual facts.

1 + 4 for Floyd (1)

1 + 3 + 4 for Mitch (1)

2 + 4 for Miller (2)

3 + 4 + 5 for Montgomery (3) and 6

4 for Foles

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3 minutes ago, WindyCity said:

Trubisky 3 picks that could have been used.

Floyd 1

Miller 1

Foles 1

 

You need to draft some elite talent. You cannot be a roster of solid players and expect to compete with teams who have elite players.

Cmon dude first, if Pace had made the same trade and drafted Mahomes would you complain?  No of course not, bc you arent criticizing the trade, which was good, your criticizing the pick.  Floyd, same thing.  Miller, you, I and everybody loved the move at the time, and it looked like a homerun move in 2018.  Player development, that's on the coaching staff.  And let's be real about Foles, that was Matt Nagy all the way.  Which of those trades at the time were you not behind?  I've been here all the while Windy.  There wasnt a single one of those trades you thought were bad moves.  And Pace has added elite players just not in the first round.  You dont have to spin, you can argue legitimately, I've seen you do it.  All you have to do is say that Pace tied himself to Trubisky, Trubisky failed and thus Pace failed.  That was what you said when the move happened.  I'm not going to argue that, I will 100% agree.  But dont try to play like Pace hasnt built a pretty damn good team save fornthenmost important position in all of sports.  That's spin.  

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1 minute ago, Superman(DH23) said:

Cmon dude first, if Pace had made the same trade and drafted Mahomes would you complain?  No of course not, bc you arent criticizing the trade, which was good, your criticizing the pick.  Floyd, same thing.  Miller, you, I and everybody loved the move at the time, and it looked like a homerun move in 2018.  Player development, that's on the coaching staff.  And let's be real about Foles, that was Matt Nagy all the way.  Which of those trades at the time were you not behind?  I've been here all the while Windy.  There wasnt a single one of those trades you thought were bad moves.  And Pace has added elite players just not in the first round.  You dont have to spin, you can argue legitimately, I've seen you do it.  All you have to do is say that Pace tied himself to Trubisky, Trubisky failed and thus Pace failed.  That was what you said when the move happened.  I'm not going to argue that, I will 100% agree.  But dont try to play like Pace hasnt built a pretty damn good team save fornthenmost important position in all of sports.  That's spin.  

The point was that Pace has a history of trading away draft picks. You asked for examples. There are more than enough. Worrying about Pace trading future picks is a valid concern.

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6 minutes ago, abstract_thought said:

1 + 4 for Floyd (1)

1 + 3 + 4 for Mitch (1)

2 + 4 for Miller (2)

3 + 4 + 5 for Montgomery (3) and 6

4 for Foles

See my response to Windy above, and hold up, your criticizing Pace for acquiring the best back for what Nagy wants, and a back who finished as a top 5 rusher whole being ignored for half of the season?  Are you kidding me?  Also how many of those picks did Pace reacquire with trades?

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1 minute ago, Superman(DH23) said:

Cmon dude first, if Pace had made the same trade and drafted Mahomes would you complain?  No of course not, bc you arent criticizing the trade, which was good, your criticizing the pick.  Floyd, same thing.  Miller, you, I and everybody loved the move at the time, and it looked like a homerun move in 2018.  Player development, that's on the coaching staff.  And let's be real about Foles, that was Matt Nagy all the way.  Which of those trades at the time were you not behind?  I've been here all the while Windy.  There wasnt a single one of those trades you thought were bad moves.  And Pace has added elite players just not in the first round.  You dont have to spin, you can argue legitimately, I've seen you do it.  All you have to do is say that Pace tied himself to Trubisky, Trubisky failed and thus Pace failed.  That was what you said when the move happened.  I'm not going to argue that, I will 100% agree.  But dont try to play like Pace hasnt built a pretty damn good team save fornthenmost important position in all of sports.  That's spin.  

Yes, if you make a trade for a good player it is a good move.

If you make a trade for a bad player it is a bad move and costs you more. His #conviction costs us extra picks that we need to make up for the fact that he misses in the first place.

 

How many elite players has Pace drafted?

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Just now, abstract_thought said:

The point was that Pace has a history of trading away draft picks. You asked for examples. There are more than enough. Worrying about Pace trading future picks is a valid concern.

Not of he also has a history of acquiring more picks thru trades as well.  Or is your argument that GMs arent allowed to trade picks and must just stand pat and pick wherever they are regardless.  Bc whooo boy.

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4 minutes ago, Superman(DH23) said:

Cmon dude first, if Pace had made the same trade and drafted Mahomes would you complain?  No of course not, bc you arent criticizing the trade, which was good, your criticizing the pick.  Floyd, same thing.  Miller, you, I and everybody loved the move at the time, and it looked like a homerun move in 2018.  Player development, that's on the coaching staff.  And let's be real about Foles, that was Matt Nagy all the way.  Which of those trades at the time were you not behind?  I've been here all the while Windy.  There wasnt a single one of those trades you thought were bad moves.  And Pace has added elite players just not in the first round.  You dont have to spin, you can argue legitimately, I've seen you do it.  All you have to do is say that Pace tied himself to Trubisky, Trubisky failed and thus Pace failed.  That was what you said when the move happened.  I'm not going to argue that, I will 100% agree.  But dont try to play like Pace hasnt built a pretty damn good team save fornthenmost important position in all of sports.  That's spin.  

They were bad moves as long as the player works out.

The process isn't bad, the evaluation and the results were bad, and the NFL is a results business. 

Process doesn't get you rings.

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1 minute ago, Superman(DH23) said:

Not of he also has a history of acquiring more picks thru trades as well.  Or is your argument that GMs arent allowed to trade picks and must just stand pat and pick wherever they are regardless.  Bc whooo boy.

GMs can trade picks.

They can also get critiqued for missing on the players they traded up for.

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2 minutes ago, WindyCity said:

Yes, if you make a trade for a good player it is a good move.

If you make a trade for a bad player it is a bad move and costs you more. His #conviction costs us extra picks that we need to make up for the fact that he misses in the first place.

 

How many elite players has Pace drafted?

Goldman

Jackson

Montgomery

Smith

For sure

Johnson

Daniel's

Look like they are trending that direction.

How many elite players have the Packers drafted same time frame?

Vikings?

Lions?

How bout the chiefs?

Patriots?

Who do you look at and say they have 100% drafted better, OVERALL, than the Bears.

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