Fire Pace and Nagy

[dll2000]

55 minutes ago, G08 said:

Pace's draft picks I liked:

Eddie Goldman

Adrian Amos

(I didn't like him but Leonard Floyd is doing fine in the league)

Cody Whitehair

Nick Kwiatkoski

Jordan Howard was fine for a period of time

DeAndre Houston-Carson is a core ST player

Eddie Jackson

Tarik Cohen

Roquan Smith

James Daniels (stay healthy kid)

Bilal Nichols

David Montgomery

Cole Kmet (has promise, we'll see if he reaches what I believe to be his ceiling)

Jaylon Johnson

Darnell Mooney

Justin Fields

Teven Jenkins (can he return to form after a microdiscectomy?)

Larry Borom (looked promising before that dreaded high ankle sprain)

 

I mean.... we can do a hell of a lot worse than this, guys.

I thought last two drafts showed significant improvement.   

Pace himself in an interview shortly after he was hired said most important positions to find in draft are:   QB, CB, Edge, OT and Ball Hawking Safety.

They are both rarest and most vital to team success.   I agree with him on that list 100% and said so at time.  Why I was impressed with him at time.  I liked that philosophy  

Prior to last year your list compared to his own list of vital hits reads:   Eddie Jackson as ball hawking safety.  That is 6 years and 1 guy to show for it via draft.

Floyd was a bust for Bears.  It doesn't matter what he does for another team.  

Pace hasn't followed his own philosophy until last two drafts.  In fairness maybe value wasn't there in his mind, but he had 6 years and came up with just one name on his self proclaimed priority list.

To his credit - it looks like he may be rectifying his mistake to some extent in last two drafts with a corner, QB and OT or perhaps two.  We'll see how it all pans out.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[dll2000]

1 hour ago, soulman said:

It also seem to counter the way upper management wants to run the team which is to minimize talent and maximize weaknesses.  In any event it just somehow "feels" like we need to make some changes.

This Pace/Nagy partnership has brought us back from the abyss but it appears to be stalling out at the point of producing mediocre results.  I'd like to see what the rest of the year brings us before saying much more than I have.

But I do hope GMcC stays true to his word regarding progress.  And even though he never quantified it you can only BS fans for so long.  If it's just not there I'd say it time to move on before we get hip deep in building around Fields.

 

I wouldn't hate it if you kept Pace on board and got rid of Nagy. 

Pace draft prowess seems to be arrow up.  FA arrow down though.   

Nagy has never shown great coaching ability.  He is essentially been the OC for team and defense has carried us.  Granted most of resources are on defensive side of ball - but still his output, execution and young player development has been subpar.

That will never happen I don't think though.   They are kind of married.

I know I am in minority, but I would hire Josh McDaniels as my head coach.   I would spend time with him and those close to him first.  If he is as much a ****** as his reputation suggests I would pass. 

 I can tell you he does know football more than just about any other candidate under 65.   Both sides of the ball and a breadth of different systems.  He isn't just another Belichick coat tail.  Belichick trusts him schematically and game plan wise and so does Kraft.   Why Kraft stole him from Colts, he wants him as Belichick successor.  And talk about watch and learn.   He has been with Belichick as long as anyone.

 

 

 

 

[Sugashane]

3 hours ago, RunningVaccs said:

OR we just let Pace draft rounds 3+ and the other guy can catch a nap for the rest of the draft

I think I said something similar when saying we should get Rick Smith to pair with him. Lol

[Madmike90]

3 hours ago, Sugashane said:

I think I said something similar when saying we should get Rick Smith to pair with him. Lol

Not 100% sure he is ready for it and I am still probably on the Ed Dodds train but I watched a thing about Dan Morgan when he was in Buffalo and man that guys work ethic and attitude is exactly what you want running any kind of team.

[Heinz D.]

6 hours ago, dll2000 said:

Prior to last year your list compared to his own list of vital hits reads:   Eddie Jackson as ball hawking safety.  That is 6 years and 1 guy to show for it via draft.

Are you SURE Jackson is a "ball hawking safety"? Because I see a lot of other safeties in the league that fit that description far more readily than Eddie Jackson...

[dll2000]

9 minutes ago, Heinz D. said:

Are you SURE Jackson is a "ball hawking safety"? Because I see a lot of other safeties in the league that fit that description far more readily than Eddie Jackson...

I was being generous.  I wanted to give Pace a win on his list.

[Heinz D.]

57 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

I was being generous.  I wanted to give Pace a win on his list.

For the life of me, I can't even begin to imagine why...

[soulman]

11 hours ago, dll2000 said:

I wouldn't hate it if you kept Pace on board and got rid of Nagy. 

Pace draft prowess seems to be arrow up.  FA arrow down though.   

Nagy has never shown great coaching ability.  He is essentially been the OC for team and defense has carried us.  Granted most of resources are on defensive side of ball - but still his output, execution and young player development has been subpar.

That will never happen I don't think though.   They are kind of married.

I know I am in minority, but I would hire Josh McDaniels as my head coach.   I would spend time with him and those close to him first.  If he is as much a ****** as his reputation suggests I would pass. 

 I can tell you he does know football more than just about any other candidate under 65.   Both sides of the ball and a breadth of different systems.  He isn't just another Belichick coat tail.  Belichick trusts him schematically and game plan wise and so does Kraft.   Why Kraft stole him from Colts, he wants him as Belichick successor.  And talk about watch and learn.   He has been with Belichick as long as anyone.

 

 

 

 

Based on my experience when he coached here McDaniel is one huge arrogant ahole but it's also possible he's matured some since then.  You can't argue much with his success at NE.

As for Pace with as much as the McCaskey's seem to like him I almost have to think they're grooming him to take Teddy Bears place.  Phillips is only 68 so he's not ancient but despite the Bears glowing description of his many accolades while working for the team his track record of success is pretty bleak.  I get a kick out of this paragraph from his team bio.

Phillips has revitalized both the business and football operations by hiring high character, intelligent and driven individuals who share common goals and philosophies on how to build a consistent winner.

If his goal has been to produce a consistent winner by hiring good people and placing them under his leadership then it's pretty much been the blind leading the blind.  I mean Ted, where's your consistent winner.  You haven't had one in your entire time as CEO.  You've failed.....bigly.

While Nagy and Pace may appear to joined at their "collaborative hip" I don't necessarily believe we won't see a future of one without the other.  I just believe it should be part of a restructuring of the entire front office moving Pace into the role Teddy Bears has but for once having a Team President who knows football and then installing a new GM.

Then let Pace and his GM collaborate.  The present collaboration isn't working all that well.

Edited September 23, 2021 by soulman

[soulman]

11 hours ago, dll2000 said:

Nagy has never shown great coaching ability.  He is essentially been the OC for team and defense has carried us.  Granted most of resources are on defensive side of ball - but still his output, execution and young player development has been subpar.

Yup, all he's ever been is a very mediocre OC with the title of HC.

Has he lacked QB talent?  Yeah, but other coaches have managed to win without having a top dog under center.  I just don't see all that much offensively that tells me he's some kind of special offensive wizard.  Teams have caught on to him and his play calling pretty quickly.

[Sugashane]

7 hours ago, Madmike90 said:

Not 100% sure he is ready for it and I am still probably on the Ed Dodds train but I watched a thing about Dan Morgan when he was in Buffalo and man that guys work ethic and attitude is exactly what you want running any kind of team.

I mentioned Morgan a bit ago as a guy on my short list.  He has a ton of potential and seems to understand the need for smashmouth, tough players while also not running an offense like its 1980. 

[BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW]

Realistically I think that Pace is more likely to get extended than fired, pretty sure Nagy is in that same boat. For whatever reason the McCs love Pace, and appreciate continuity. I think they're sold on his style and accept that things just haven't worked out.  If Fields turns out to be good all the mistakes get easier to swallow.

 

>

[CWood21]

22 hours ago, dll2000 said:

Floyd was a bust for Bears.  It doesn't matter what he does for another team.

To me, that falls on the coaching staff.  And not on the FO.  It's a bit of blurred lines, but the FO properly evaluated the player but the coaching staff misused him.  I've largely been a believer that draft pick success is largely based on circumstances.  There's very few players who I think can play outside the system with success.  Was he worth 9th overall pick?  Probably not.  Was he a bust?  Absolutely no.

[Sugashane]

4 hours ago, CWood21 said:

To me, that falls on the coaching staff.  And not on the FO.  It's a bit of blurred lines, but the FO properly evaluated the player but the coaching staff misused him.  I've largely been a believer that draft pick success is largely based on circumstances.  There's very few players who I think can play outside the system with success.  Was he worth 9th overall pick?  Probably not.  Was he a bust?  Absolutely no.

As a talent he wasn't a bust, Pace thought he could take an offball LB and make him an EDGE. That was why I do blame Pace in large part for that. 

Still it would have been better to move Floyd inside with Smith rather than extend Trevethan. 

[Bfan]

3 hours ago, Sugashane said:

As a talent he wasn't a bust, Pace thought he could take an offball LB and make him an EDGE. That was why I do blame Pace in large part for that. 

Still it would have been better to move Floyd inside with Smith rather than extend Trevethan. 

I would have expected Nagy and Pagano to suggest that to Pace.  So thank Pagano's lack of interest and Nagy's hands off attitude of the defense for that.

Edited September 23, 2021 by Bfan

[Sugashane]

2 hours ago, Bfan said:

I would have expected Nagy and Pagano to suggest that to Pace.  So thank Pagano's lack of interest and Nagy's hands off attitude of the defense for that.

IDK why it didn't get tried. Maybe Floyd wanted EDGE money and overestimated his FA value so the talks never could have occurred. Either Floyd or Kwiat would have been the better move. Neither is a crippling loss but DT is a waste of money and snaps at this point.