Fire Pace and Nagy

[beardown3231]

24 minutes ago, Sugashane said:

IDK why it didn't get tried. Maybe Floyd wanted EDGE money and overestimated his FA value so the talks never could have occurred. Either Floyd or Kwiat would have been the better move. Neither is a crippling loss but DT is a waste of money and snaps at this point.

I truly wonder if Trevathan has a knee issue or if they're giving him the Kyle Long treatment. He looked healthy vs TEN and wasn't limping or anything after they put the scrubs in. Either way I don't know that he can outplay Ogletree at this stage & I hope Ogletree keeps the job vs DET

[Sugashane]

4 minutes ago, beardown3231 said:

I truly wonder if Trevathan has a knee issue or if they're giving him the Kyle Long treatment. He looked healthy vs TEN and wasn't limping or anything after they put the scrubs in. Either way I don't know that he can outplay Ogletree at this stage & I hope Ogletree keeps the job vs DET

Same here. Ogletree isn't a world beater but is simply the better player at this point. Father time rocked DT like Sonny Liston throwing a haymaker.

[soulman]

15 hours ago, RunningVaccs said:

Realistically I think that Pace is more likely to get extended than fired, pretty sure Nagy is in that same boat. For whatever reason the McCs love Pace, and appreciate continuity. I think they're sold on his style and accept that things just haven't worked out.  If Fields turns out to be good all the mistakes get easier to swallow.

I tend to agree as it relates to Pace.  Replacing even a mediocre GM doesn't assure the new one will be better.  GMcC and Teddy Bears have already made that mistake before.  I also believe there's a good chance Pace is being groomed to follow Phillips as Team President.

That's a position that in the entire history of the Bears has never been held other than by a Halas, a McCaskey, and now Phillips who might as well be another McCaskey.  No "outsider" has ever been at the top and I don't see another more likely prospect under McCaskey rule.

I'm less certain about Nagy's fate.

[BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW]

8 hours ago, soulman said:

I tend to agree as it relates to Pace.  Replacing even a mediocre GM doesn't assure the new one will be better.  GMcC and Teddy Bears have already made that mistake before.  I also believe there's a good chance Pace is being groomed to follow Phillips as Team President.

That's a position that in the entire history of the Bears has never been held other than by a Halas, a McCaskey, and now Phillips who might as well be another McCaskey.  No "outsider" has ever been at the top and I don't see another more likely prospect under McCaskey rule.

I'm less certain about Nagy's fate.

Yeah, not saying I agree with it, but I think making hires makes George anxious.  You can make a case that GM success is mostly luck, and that teams turnover too often,  and I think that's how they're justifying their fear of making a worse hire.  I would have tossed them both last year, but since we didn't I think it really implies that they'd have to experience a very public failure and go like 2-15 or something to get the boot now. I think they're here for at least 2 more years, and any kind of promising play from Fields means maybe longer.  If I was Nagy, I would build the pool. 

[dll2000]

23 hours ago, CWood21 said:

To me, that falls on the coaching staff.  And not on the FO.  It's a bit of blurred lines, but the FO properly evaluated the player but the coaching staff misused him.  I've largely been a believer that draft pick success is largely based on circumstances.  There's very few players who I think can play outside the system with success.  Was he worth 9th overall pick?  Probably not.  Was he a bust?  Absolutely no.

Who picked the coaching staff?

[dll2000]

On 9/22/2021 at 11:06 PM, soulman said:

Based on my experience when he coached here McDaniel is one huge arrogant ahole but it's also possible he's matured some since then.  You can't argue much with his success at NE.

As for Pace with as much as the McCaskey's seem to like him I almost have to think they're grooming him to take Teddy Bears place.  Phillips is only 68 so he's not ancient but despite the Bears glowing description of his many accolades while working for the team his track record of success is pretty bleak.  I get a kick out of this paragraph from his team bio.

Phillips has revitalized both the business and football operations by hiring high character, intelligent and driven individuals who share common goals and philosophies on how to build a consistent winner.

If his goal has been to produce a consistent winner by hiring good people and placing them under his leadership then it's pretty much been the blind leading the blind.  I mean Ted, where's your consistent winner.  You haven't had one in your entire time as CEO.  You've failed.....bigly.

While Nagy and Pace may appear to joined at their "collaborative hip" I don't necessarily believe we won't see a future of one without the other.  I just believe it should be part of a restructuring of the entire front office moving Pace into the role Teddy Bears has but for once having a Team President who knows football and then installing a new GM.

Then let Pace and his GM collaborate.  The present collaboration isn't working all that well.

They judge success by growth in revenue over expenses.   

But honestly how many half way competent people would lose money running an NFL franchise during last 20 years? 

It's a monopoly on most popular sport in country.  

 

[dll2000]

12 hours ago, beardown3231 said:

I truly wonder if Trevathan has a knee issue or if they're giving him the Kyle Long treatment. He looked healthy vs TEN and wasn't limping or anything after they put the scrubs in. Either way I don't know that he can outplay Ogletree at this stage & I hope Ogletree keeps the job vs DET

Olgetree has been better than DT since day he arrived.   Bears finally made a common sense football move in starting him.

They did opposite with Long.   They screwed up wheeling Long out there for a number of games when he was really bad and didn't deserve to play.

I went to a Bears training camp practice in Bourbonnais and sat 10 feet from OL the whole day.   Long literally lost ever rep against every DL he went against.  He was so frustrated at one point he walked off and started hitting himself.   He still started.  That is madness.  

 

[dll2000]

17 minutes ago, RunningVaccs said:

Yeah, not saying I agree with it, but I think making hires makes George anxious.  You can make a case that GM success is mostly luck, and that teams turnover too often,  and I think that's how they're justifying their fear of making a worse hire.  I would have tossed them both last year, but since we didn't I think it really implies that they'd have to experience a very public failure and go like 2-15 or something to get the boot now. I think they're here for at least 2 more years, and any kind of promising play from Fields means maybe longer.  If I was Nagy, I would build the pool. 

I think McCaskey ideally wants to be like Steelers org.  He has said so in recent blurbs.  

They keep guys in place for decades and don't do the turn over the staff every 4-5 years much of NFL does.

You can't argue they haven't had a lot of success with that model.  Probably thee most consistent franchise in NFL over the long haul.

Patriots have just been that way with Belichick.   Steelers have been that way since they hired Noll.  They have had 3 coaches since 1969 and very little turnover in front office.

 

 

 

 

[soulman]

7 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

They judge success by growth in revenue over expenses.   

But honestly how many half way competent people would lose money running an NFL franchise during last 20 years? 

It's a monopoly on most popular sport in country.  

 

Some years ago in an interview Phillips made a point to say that losing was not hurting the Bears relationships with those firms they "partner" with or in other words additional sponsors who pay big money to be the official ______________ of the Chicago Bears.

IMHO Teddy Bears has never been much more than a glorified bean counter and tax accountant who primary role has been to keep the team profitable and growing in value each year.  But as you say giving him sole credit for that is woefully inaccurate.

I still say the Bears will never be able to field consistent winners until the entire team hierarchy is run by knowledgeable football people.  While they've made some improvements IMHO it's still run far too much like a McCaskey "Mom and Pop" football team.

[soulman]

23 minutes ago, RunningVaccs said:

Yeah, not saying I agree with it, but I think making hires makes George anxious.  You can make a case that GM success is mostly luck, and that teams turnover too often,  and I think that's how they're justifying their fear of making a worse hire.  I would have tossed them both last year, but since we didn't I think it really implies that they'd have to experience a very public failure and go like 2-15 or something to get the boot now. I think they're here for at least 2 more years, and any kind of promising play from Fields means maybe longer.  If I was Nagy, I would build the pool. 

I gave Ryan Pace a couple years of Mulligans based on his inexperience as a GM and having been saddled with John Fox as his HC but that ended when the Nagy era began nearly 4 years ago.

Repeated attempts to "fix" Mitch Trubisky to me was enough of a sign that we needed to draft another rookie QB not just plug in vets as backups we hoped he might learn from.  Hell, even those vets have struggled running Nagy's schemes.  Mitch wasn't a fit for Nagy pure and simple.

What happens now I can't say yet.  But if there's any sign that Fields is struggling to adjust his game to Nagy's way of doing things I'd fold that hand in a big hurry and hire a different HC.

Nagy's contract runs through 2022.  Most HC will be extended prior to the final year of their deal provided the team plans to keep them.  By January we should know one way or the other.

[soulman]

35 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

I think McCaskey ideally wants to be like Steelers org.  He has said so in recent blurbs.  

They keep guys in place for decades and don't do the turn over the staff every 4-5 years much of NFL does.

You can't argue they haven't had a lot of success with that model.  Probably thee most consistent franchise in NFL over the long haul.

Patriots have just been that way with Belichick.   Steelers have been that way since they hired Noll.  They have had 3 coaches since 1969 and very little turnover in front office.

 

 

 

 

True but both franchises also had HOF level QBs playing for them for most of two decades and smarter football people from the top down in the front office.  That's two reasons why.

The McCaskey curse is that they have often refused to get out of their own way and hire experienced people to build and run their team for them.  They may want to emulate the Rooney family but they aren't the Rooney's.  The Rooney's plan has worked for them.

[dll2000]

 

10 minutes ago, soulman said:

True but both franchises also had HOF level QBs playing for them for most of two decades and smarter football people from the top down in the front office.  That's two reasons why.

The McCaskey curse is that they have often refused to get out of their own way and hire experienced people to build and run their team for them.  They may want to emulate the Rooney family but they aren't the Rooney's.  The Rooney's plan has worked for them.

Point is they may view Pace as the guy to run the place long term ala the Rooney method.  So Pace may not be on a hot seat like many assume.

 

 

[dll2000]

45 minutes ago, soulman said:

I gave Ryan Pace a couple years of Mulligans based on his inexperience as a GM and having been saddled with John Fox as his HC but that ended when the Nagy era began nearly 4 years ago.

Repeated attempts to "fix" Mitch Trubisky to me was enough of a sign that we needed to draft another rookie QB not just plug in vets as backups we hoped he might learn from.  Hell, even those vets have struggled running Nagy's schemes.  Mitch wasn't a fit for Nagy pure and simple.

What happens now I can't say yet.  But if there's any sign that Fields is struggling to adjust his game to Nagy's way of doing things I'd fold that hand in a big hurry and hire a different HC.

Nagy's contract runs through 2022.  Most HC will be extended prior to the final year of their deal provided the team plans to keep them.  By January we should know one way or the other.

Pace has been up and down.

Some good, some bad.  But no deep runs to show for it and a best record of 12-4 which is still being celebrated.  Notably that result is considered a bad year for rival Packers.  

Most guys don't get two bites to build a team with a young QB after a failed first try.

 

 

[dll2000]

Just now, dll2000 said:

Pace has been up and down.

Some good, some bad.  But no deep runs to show for it and a best record of 12-4 which is still being celebrated.  Notably that result is considered a bad year for rival Packers.  

Most guys don't get two bites to build a team with a young QB after a failed first try.

 

 

That may be unfair since there are 32 teams trying to win, but it has been the historical reality.

 

[soulman]

1 hour ago, dll2000 said:

 

Point is they may view Pace as the guy to run the place long term ala the Rooney method.  So Pace may not be on a hot seat like many assume.

 

 

I can believe that.  Someone in the family or close enough to the family to have gained their trust will have to be groomed to take over Phillips role.  Pace seems as logical a choice for that as any.

So, you elevate Pace then look internally at your own personnel dept for a new GM whose main role is not much different than it was as a top personnel guy.  Josh Lucas and Champ Kelly are logical prospects for that role.