Fire Pace and Nagy

[BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW]

Steelers is exactly the template I was thinking of. I think they want that, the stability.  Hopefully they figure out that you don't get that without a QB and decent-good coach. 

Pace isn't as bad as people say, but it's still stunning he didn't get chucked last year.  You can pick his "biggest" failure but the most franchise crippling one has to be going all in on Mitch, and then not realizing it wasn't working.  It's led to the albatross contracts and many lost years. And dang, I know everyone loves the backup, but if they'd taken ANY other QB in the draft at least there would be some hope late in some of these meh seasons.

 

[Madmike90]

3 hours ago, RunningVaccs said:

Steelers is exactly the template I was thinking of. I think they want that, the stability.  Hopefully they figure out that you don't get that without a QB and decent-good coach. 

Pace isn't as bad as people say, but it's still stunning he didn't get chucked last year.  You can pick his "biggest" failure but the most franchise crippling one has to be going all in on Mitch, and then not realizing it wasn't working.  It's led to the albatross contracts and many lost years. And dang, I know everyone loves the backup, but if they'd taken ANY other QB in the draft at least there would be some hope late in some of these meh seasons.

 

I don't think Pace is bad at all...I just think he is mediocre...he finds gems in the mid rounds of the draft but misses early...he gives out some solid underrated contracts in FA then gives out a crazy deal to an over the hill vet...he has got his coach wrong with Nagy (I will never blame him for Fox) and still has a middle of the road record...the options are we let him have a 3rd hire at HC or we move him upstairs to be team president and bring in a guy we think is a better talent evaluator...personally option 2 would be my preference by a long way...

Dream Staff for next year...

Team President...Ryan Pace

GM...Ed Dodds

Assistant GM...Trent Kirchner

HC...Shane Waldron

Assistant HC/OL...Bill Callahan

OC...Wes Phillips

DC...Ejiro Evero

ST...Doug Coleman

[WindyCity]

3 hours ago, Madmike90 said:

I don't think Pace is bad at all...I just think he is mediocre...he finds gems in the mid rounds of the draft but misses early...he gives out some solid underrated contracts in FA then gives out a crazy deal to an over the hill vet...he has got his coach wrong with Nagy (I will never blame him for Fox) and still has a middle of the road record...the options are we let him have a 3rd hire at HC or we move him upstairs to be team president and bring in a guy we think is a better talent evaluator...personally option 2 would be my preference by a long way...

Dream Staff for next year...

Team President...Ryan Pace

GM...Ed Dodds

Assistant GM...Trent Kirchner

HC...Shane Waldron

Assistant HC/OL...Bill Callahan

OC...Wes Phillips

DC...Ejiro Evero

ST...Doug Coleman

No one serious is coming here to be the GM under a team president that use to be the GM. How could you be assured your boss won’t meddle in what you are doing, especially one who has #conviction.

I am also not sure why Pace would agree to give up football control. He would essentially be put out to pasture like Elway did to himself.

Sounds like a recipe for dysfunction.

Edited September 25, 2021 by WindyCity

[WindyCity]

Better idea. If he isn’t getting fired.

Pace does some self evaluation and stops with the things he does bad.

-Stockpile picks

-Stop with the big back loaded deals

-Stop drafting 1 year wonders high based on projections and not resume

[WindyCity]

Pace drafted like crap early in drafts early on.

Pace spent like an idiot when he was desperate.

 

He should not be desperate next offseason and he has learned from his draft mistakes from what I can tell.

[WindyCity]

I was back on board with Pace, but the Jimmy Graham contract and restructure was a real turd in the punch bowl.

That was an idiot Pace move.

[Madmike90]

3 hours ago, WindyCity said:

No one serious is coming here to be the GM under a team president that use to be the GM. How could you be assured your boss won’t meddle in what you are doing, especially one who has #conviction.

I am also not sure why Pace would agree to give up football control. He would essentially be put out to pasture like Elway did to himself.

Sounds like a recipe for dysfunction.

Then Pace is out...it's pretty simple if George has some balls about him...Pace takes on the smooth talking role with steak holders and keeps himself to himself in terms of final say over draft picks & free agent signings...he doesn't want to do that? Then find yourself another job and all the best in your future endeavours...

We just need to get far smarter on how we get as many quality football minds in the one place...lots of other teams are so far ahead of us in that regard when it comes to FO & coaching staffs. 

[Madmike90]

5 hours ago, WindyCity said:

Better idea. If he isn’t getting fired.

Pace does some self evaluation and stops with the things he does bad.

-Stockpile picks

-Stop with the big back loaded deals

-Stop drafting 1 year wonders high based on projections and not resume

That would pretty much so mean changing his whole approach which is highly unlikely.

[soulman]

15 hours ago, RunningVaccs said:

You can pick his "biggest" failure but the most franchise crippling one has to be going all in on Mitch, and then not realizing it wasn't working.

Yup.  The failure or Mitch to rise to level of a franchise QB as expected hurt since it also caused us to spend even more draft capital on re-drafting the position.

But I would add that the consistent need to use future draft picks to fill current needs or to trade up for specific players have also contributed to our plight as well.

All too often we lacked the earlier picks with which to improve the OL and add quality depth to the Secondary.  That's all come home to roost this year and last.

[soulman]

13 hours ago, WindyCity said:

No one serious is coming here to be the GM under a team president that use to be the GM. How could you be assured your boss won’t meddle in what you are doing, especially one who has #conviction.

I am also not sure why Pace would agree to give up football control. He would essentially be put out to pasture like Elway did to himself.

Sounds like a recipe for dysfunction.

I realize that's your own point of view but I believe it's inaccurate.  Denver hasn't regressed into dysfunction over Elway stepping down as GM.  They're a QB away from competing for a SB.

I would also say that Pace would not be giving up control over football.  Just the opposite.  He may rely more on whoever becomes GM to make the final personnel decisions but he'll hardly be out of the loop since neither GMcC or Teddy Bears aren't out of that loop now.  The opinions of both were sought prior to the Mack trade and the trade that allowed us to draft Fields.

But I still believe that a shift in positions may end up with a GM coming from within.  Champ Kelly has been named as a top GM prospect several times and unless we do move forward with removing Phillips and replacing him with Pace we may lose Kelly and possibly Josh Lucas as well.  IMHO this actually fits more into how I can see GMcC being comfortable with a change.

To be honest I don't believe that a wholesale tear down and rebuild is what's needed here nor do I believe GMcC would be in favor of that either.  We have a decent foundation now and a future franchise QB (we hope).  The challenge seems to be upgrading the offense around Fields while slowly replacing key players on the aging defense on the fly as GB has done

I don't deny that a coaching change may be needed to reach our goals but that can be done without tearing down what's been accomplished so far.  I can't see the logic in tearing it all down only to go through yet another 5 year plan rebuilding from scratch as we did prior to hiring Nagy and upgrading his offensive staff over the years.  We've been through this cycle.

My point is and always has been that we lack top football talent at the top and will for as long as Teddy Bears remains President/CEO and GMcC keep leaning on him as opposed to more knowledgeable football people.  There's a good chance we already have those people in house and only need to shift their skills upwards into new positions in order to achieve the goal.

Edited September 25, 2021 by soulman

[Heinz D.]

9 hours ago, WindyCity said:

-Stop with the big back loaded deals

They pretty much all dabble in that nonsense, though. 

13 minutes ago, soulman said:

I don't deny that a coaching change may be needed to reach our goals but that can be done without tearing down what's been accomplished so far.  I can't see the logic in tearing it all down only to go through yet another 5 year plan rebuilding from scratch as we did prior to hiring Nagy and upgrading his offensive staff over the years.  We've been through this cycle.

I do get what you're saying, but it wouldn't be a complete tear down. Because of the players. You've got Fields, Montgomery, Kmet, Smith, Johnson. Hopefully Jenkins and Borom...if they can get healthy and stay that way. Maybe Gipson, Vildor, Snowden.

All young guys. 

[soulman]

52 minutes ago, Heinz D. said:

They pretty much all dabble in that nonsense, though. 

I do get what you're saying, but it wouldn't be a complete tear down. Because of the players. You've got Fields, Montgomery, Kmet, Smith, Johnson. Hopefully Jenkins and Borom...if they can get healthy and stay that way. Maybe Gipson, Vildor, Snowden.

All young guys. 

True but also unproven in the long haul.  Especially those who've seen little game time.

We see them as a foundation and I agree with that as far as this coaching regime is concerned but what about a new HC and staff?  There are significant arguments for sticking with Nagy awhile longer and that may happen provided his offense shows some decent progress.  But I would not offer an extension without the wins to go with that.  That's the second goal.

I'm speaking from a point of view of how GMcC and Teddy Bears may see this.  My thinking on him is a bit different.  I believe he's had his chance and that he's also used up all of his "mulligans" trying to make his offense work and hang points on the board.  It's fish or cut bait time now.  Either it works or it doesn't.  We can't keep blaming it on the lack of a good QB.

While I may be expecting to see some real progress this year I'm also not foolish enough to believe it's assured even with Fields at QB but I also believe we would have to be completely flat or regress for Nagy not to be given a shot at finishing out his deal next year in the process of trying to earn and extension.  That just seems to fit more with Bears logic and coaches.

In addition I feel like Pace is still auditioning for that promotion.  His inconsistencies work against him at times and for the McCaskey's having Phillips step down as CEO and replacing him with Pace is a very big move for them.  If it doesn't turn out well they will need to tear it all down from the top and start over again and I believe GMcC fears having to do that.

Any decisions they may make will be tempered by a strong desire to never regress back to the Emery/Trestman/Fox era again.  If that happens the pressure from all side to sell the team might be enormous and the NFL isn't gonna keep billionaires like Jeff Bezos from buying a team when he's worth more than all of the other owner combined.  He'll drive franchise values upwards.

So in some ways I see this year and next as being a nexus for both Pace and Nagy.  After 4 years as a team we should all have a pretty good idea of what a 5th year would look like and so should GMcC and Teddy Bears.  If they haven't shown some real indication of moving forward by now how much longer can you afford to give them before finally throwing in the towel?

[Heinz D.]

42 minutes ago, soulman said:

So in some ways I see this year and next as being a nexus for both Pace and Nagy.  After 4 years as a team we should all have a pretty good idea of what a 5th year would look like and so should GMcC and Teddy Bears.  If they haven't shown some real indication of moving forward by now how much longer can you afford to give them before finally throwing in the towel?

That's a good question. I've said it before, but I'll say it again here--Pace has started to rebuild the team now. And he deserves credit for that. We have no way of knowing if that's a plus or a minus in ownership's eyes, though. We all love it, but Teddy Bears and Spurious George may be fed up, and expect results this year.

But I highly doubt that. Pace and Nagy will get at least another year, unless the team falls apart. And I'd be shocked if it did. 

[Madmike90]

24 minutes ago, Heinz D. said:

That's a good question. I've said it before, but I'll say it again here--Pace has started to rebuild the team now. And he deserves credit for that. We have no way of knowing if that's a plus or a minus in ownership's eyes, though. We all love it, but Teddy Bears and Spurious George may be fed up, and expect results this year.

But I highly doubt that. Pace and Nagy will get at least another year, unless the team falls apart. And I'd be shocked if it did. 

The only concern that I have with the way Pace has rebuilt this team...and he 100% has made us better than we were when he got here...is the age on the team...we have one of the oldest rosters in the NFL...Pace or whoever the GM is must focus on brining in youth in multiple positions to bring that average age down.

[Heinz D.]

1 minute ago, Madmike90 said:

The only concern that I have with the way Pace has rebuilt this team...and he 100% has made us better than we were when he got here...is the age on the team...we have one of the oldest rosters in the NFL...Pace or whoever the GM is must focus on brining in youth in multiple positions to bring that average age down.

What I was getting at is that Pace is starting a second rebuild. That's a big reason he was content to let Fuller go--Fuller was older, and expensive. It's really Robinson and (outside of Smith) all those big names on defense that keep the overall age of the team so high. (Yes, I'm intentionally leaving Peters out of the equation, as he's clearly a stopgap.)

Hicks has stated he wants to retire a Bear, and I wouldn't be surprised if that happens--but on the cheap. Everybody else will essentially be replaced over the next couple of years. IIRC, next season the cap becomes a lot more flexible for the Bears, too.