Fire Pace and Nagy

[soulman]

11 minutes ago, Heinz D. said:

We all love it, but Teddy Bears and Spurious George may be fed up, and expect results this year.

My initially thought on this is "that'll be the day".  Both seem to have an abnormally high tolerance for anything from mediocrity on down as long as it doesn't embarrass them and they make $$$.

It's not that I think they don't want to win it's more like they just don't know how to build a winning franchise because they've never done it.  They simply "took" over from the all time big loser Mikey and IMHO for quite awhile Teddy Bears thought very much like Mikey.  That is to say "winning is nice" but growing the value of the franchise and making a profit was even nicer.

As much as I may be less than completely thrilled with Pace's efforts at least he's come up the ranks under Mickey Loomis who completely turned NOLA around and into a consistent winner. So Pace at least does have an NFL pedigree something Teddy Bears lacks and even GMcC comes by his more as a result of his genes than having worked his way up NFL style.

They may want the Bears to be like Pittsburgh but the Rooney's are far more football people than the McCaskeys.  The harsh fact of life for Bears fans is that Mugs did not survive his Dad and take over the franchise rather than Ginny and her "tribe".  They may all be a bit too much like Ed McCaskey who Halas once called the dumbest SOB I ever met.   It's in the genes.

[soulman]

41 minutes ago, Madmike90 said:

The only concern that I have with the way Pace has rebuilt this team...and he 100% has made us better than we were when he got here...is the age on the team...we have one of the oldest rosters in the NFL...Pace or whoever the GM is must focus on brining in youth in multiple positions to bring that average age down.

That can be a little misleading if only because we're carrying two QBs in their 30s and a 39 year old OT and also when the difference between the oldest and youngest team is just 2 years. We are the oldest at 27.0 years and the Jets are the youngest at 25.1 years.

Over the past 5 seasons our average age hasn't varied all that much and we've been among the older teams 80% of the time.  Take away Dalton, Foles, and Peters replacing them with 3 25 year olds and we're the 25th or 26th oldest team.  Same as the Titans, Seahawks, and 49ers.

Take out DT and do the same and we're the 24th oldest team.  Same as the Bills.  So IMHO this age thing while it's a talking point for the media really doesn't mean all that much overall.

Here's our average age and rank over the past 5 seasons.

Bears

27.0 (32)

26.7 (31)

26.2 (22)

25.7 (12)

26.3 (22)

Edited September 25, 2021 by soulman

[Madmike90]

59 minutes ago, soulman said:

That can be a little misleading if only because we're carrying two QBs in their 30s and a 39 year old OT and also when the difference between the oldest and youngest team is just 2 years. We are the oldest at 27.0 years and the Jets are the youngest at 25.1 years.

Over the past 5 seasons our average age hasn't varied all that much and we've been among the older teams 80% of the time.  Take away Dalton, Foles, and Peters replacing them with 3 25 year olds and we're the 25th or 26th oldest team.  Same as the Titans, Seahawks, and 49ers.

Take out DT and do the same and we're the 24th oldest team.  Same as the Bills.  So IMHO this age thing while it's a talking point for the media really doesn't mean all that much overall.

Here's our average age and rank over the past 5 seasons.

Bears

27.0 (32)

26.7 (31)

26.2 (22)

25.7 (12)

26.3 (22)

The gap isn't huge by any means but for me I want to see that roster start to turn round before it is a bigger margin and all of a sudden we have lots of money tied up in aging guys and can't afford to keep some of those longer term cornerstones....the quicker you can inject youth and energy onto a roster the fast that rebuild process becomes.

[Madmike90]

Regardless of what happens with Pace & co this offseason they better be in Dallas right now...ton of quality looking players in this Arkansas vs. Texas A&M game...I am fully on the Ricky Stromberg train for our first pick if he declares.

[Sugashane]

42 minutes ago, Madmike90 said:

Regardless of what happens with Pace & co this offseason they better be in Dallas right now...ton of quality looking players in this Arkansas vs. Texas A&M game...I am fully on the Ricky Stromberg train for our first pick if he declares.

If we have Jenkins and Borom set for OT spots that would be awesome. IDK if Stromberg is as athletic as Pace seems to want his C to be but damn this kid is a tank. He has the same mean streak Jenkins has, and if I want one trait for my OL they are all bullies.

[Madmike90]

3 minutes ago, Sugashane said:

If we have Jenkins and Borom set for OT spots that would be awesome. IDK if Stromberg is as athletic as Pace seems to want his C to be but damn this kid is a tank. He has the same mean streak Jenkins has, and if I want one trait for my OL they are all bullies.

I think he is athletic enough to play the spot and more importantly he can handle a NT one on one...every time I watch him I see a lot of the same things Travis Frederick brought to Dallas.

Edited September 25, 2021 by Madmike90

[Sugashane]

3 minutes ago, Madmike90 said:

I think he is athletic enough to play the spot and more importantly he can handle a NT one on one...every time I watch him I see a lot of the same things Travis Frederick brought to Dallas.

He may be, I don't watch a lot of Arkansas so I've only seen him a few times but his physicality popped to me. Being so stout and physical he reminds me of Maurkice Pouncey with how heavy a hitter he is.

[soulman]

4 hours ago, Madmike90 said:

The gap isn't huge by any means but for me I want to see that roster start to turn round before it is a bigger margin and all of a sudden we have lots of money tied up in aging guys and can't afford to keep some of those longer term cornerstones....the quicker you can inject youth and energy onto a roster the fast that rebuild process becomes.

I get that Mike but we already have significant money tied up in some players who are 30 give or take a year or two.  I don't know that we can avoid that as long as those players continue to be productive and locker room leaders.

To me the money isn't an issue if they continue to play at a high level.  Trevis Gipson is much cheaper than Khalil Mack but not as effective and the same could be said Angelo Blackson vs Akiem Hicks or Jeremy Attaochu vs Robert Quinn.

What we have to hope for is that a player like Gipson can ascend to a level where he can be as effective as Mack but we also need to be realistic.  Can a 5th round pick ever rise to the level of a top 5 overall pick?  Mack is a once in a decade player.

One way to inject top rated youth is to keep finishing with top ten picks.  We've done this 3 times under Pace and drafted Floyd, Trubisky, and Smith.  Only Smith is still with us and a handful of our other 2nd and 3rd round picks have failed as well.

In fact I'd say one reason we have gotten older is also because we haven't been as successful drafting in those early rounds as we should have been and because we've traded several of those earlier picks away moving up or for Mack and now Fields.

It's not that your thinking is wrong it's the execution of that idea we've not done well with.

[Madmike90]

1 minute ago, Sugashane said:

He may be, I don't watch a lot of Arkansas so I've only seen him a few times but his physicality popped to me. Being so stout and physical he reminds me of Maurkice Pouncey with how heavy a hitter he is.

Yeah I can see that comparison as well...his hands are so heavy and violent...I don't see many college linemen at any spot who have his ability to jolt defenders backwards.

[soulman]

I don't think there's any doubt we need to upgrade at OC.  Whitehair seems to be the only OL whose handled the position well.  Daniels and Mustipher have both struggled handling bigger NT and DT.  But much of that also comes down to technique and quickness.

Olin Kruetz was smaller than either of them but managed quite well throughout his career because of his attitude.  He played like a bully and compensated for being a smaller OC with with quickness and technique.  What we need is another Olin Kruetz.

I was hoping Daniels might be that guy and he's young enough that he still could be.  According to the current roster he's added quite a bit of weight since last season as have Mustipher and Bars.  They're all playing in the 330lb range now vs 310-315lbs.

The question is will size alone make a difference?

I would have loved to have drafted Travis Fredrick but we took Kyle Long instead.  Until he seriously injured his leg when what's his name fell on him we did OK drafting Long and both are now out of the NFL.  I would have loved to have drafted Quentin Nelson too.

The problem is when one of those once in a decade interior OL comes along you have to be in a position to draft him.  Fredrick was drafted before our pick in round two and Nelson went before we picked in 2018 at #6.  We took Roquan Smith at #8.

It seems we've been a day late and a dollar short on several great OL but that's gonna happen when we keep trading higher picks away to get a specific player Pace wanted.  Then you have to live with who you have or buy OL in the FA market which is costly.

Let's hope Jenkins and Borom do turn out to be our bookend OTs and that if Mustipher doesn't work out maybe we can shift Daniels to OC and Ifedi back to RG or that Bars ascends because we lack a 1st round pick again in 2021 so odds of getting a top OL are slim.

Edited September 25, 2021 by soulman

[Heinz D.]

40 minutes ago, soulman said:

What we have to hope for is that a player like Gipson can ascend to a level where he can be as effective as Mack but we also need to be realistic.  Can a 5th round pick ever rise to the level of a top 5 overall pick?  Mack is a once in a decade player.

You're aware that Richard Dent was a Bear, and a player in the NFL, right? 

[beardown3231]

3 hours ago, Heinz D. said:

You're aware that Richard Dent was a Bear, and a player in the NFL, right? 

Don't be snarky. Guys who are drafted where Gipson and Dent were are rarely dominant. The Bears need someone to step up to rush the passer and Gipson has been MIA so far. I figured he would have a nice year, but even if he does, the odds he has a career in the same hemisphere as Mack or Dent are overwhelming low

[Heinz D.]

17 minutes ago, beardown3231 said:

Don't be snarky. Guys who are drafted where Gipson and Dent were are rarely dominant. The Bears need someone to step up to rush the passer and Gipson has been MIA so far. I figured he would have a nice year, but even if he does, the odds he has a career in the same hemisphere as Mack or Dent are overwhelming low

The odds are lower, for sure. But Gipson was a small college guy, wasn't he? So, you never know.

But to automatically dismiss the potential of lower round picks--which is what you did--is kind of silly, and calling that silliness out is far from snark. 

Either way, Mack and Quinn may be all right this year. And the future doesn't hinge on Gipson anyway. If he becomes a stud, great. If not, draft another guy. 

[soulman]

3 hours ago, Heinz D. said:

You're aware that Richard Dent was a Bear, and a player in the NFL, right? 

Yup.....he was a 8th round pick in 1983.  That was almost 40 years ago when there were only 28 teams and drafts lasted 12 rounds.

You're more than welcome to go out during the next thunderstorm trying to catch lightning in a bottle again.  Just make sure you wear some rubber galoshes so you don't get electrocuted.

We kinda like havin' you around here. 😁

[soulman]

1 hour ago, Heinz D. said:

But to automatically dismiss the potential of lower round picks--which is what you did--is kind of silly, and calling that silliness out is far from snark. 

You can always be snarky with me.  I don't mind.  I'm often kinda snarky myself.  In fact I can be the Sultan of Snark when I wanna be.  We can even have a "snark off".  🤣

Edited September 26, 2021 by soulman