Fire Pace and Nagy

[G08]

31 minutes ago, Heinz D. said:

Well...we did see him do the most idiotic thing I've ever seen a HC do. And it fits right into your description, there. 

I thought John Fox was the one who challenged us scoring a TD, only to have it turn into a turnover and touchback for the opposition...

[Heinz D.]

18 hours ago, G08 said:

I thought John Fox was the one who challenged us scoring a TD, only to have it turn into a turnover and touchback for the opposition...

That's a pretty good one, I must admit. And we haven't even gotten into Ditka, yet. 

But, no...not gaining yards to make it a closer, potentially game winning field goal because you're afraid of an interception or fumble is the dumbest thing I've ever seen a coach do. 

If you're that terrified of turnovers, become a car salesman. Or whatever. 

[G08]

2 hours ago, Heinz D. said:

But, no...not gaining yards to make it a closer, potentially game winning field goal because you're afraid of an interception or fumble is the dumbest thing I've ever seen a coach do. 

Oh yeah against San Diego... Trestman did the same thing against the Vikings I believe.

[Heinz D.]

27 minutes ago, G08 said:

Oh yeah against San Diego... Trestman did the same thing against the Vikings I believe.

I don't recall that. It's a tie, then. 🤮

[G08]

43 minutes ago, Heinz D. said:

I don't recall that. It's a tie, then. 🤮

Yep, 2013 per the googles!

Marc Trestman takes heat for missed field goal on second down - ProFootballTalk (nbcsports.com)

[Heinz D.]

50 minutes ago, G08 said:

Yep, 2013 per the googles!

Marc Trestman takes heat for missed field goal on second down - ProFootballTalk (nbcsports.com)

Well...Trestman had Gould, so that makes it a LITTLE more acceptable. 

Still putrid coaching, though. 

[soulman]

5 hours ago, Heinz D. said:

That's a pretty good one, I must admit. And we haven't even gotten into Ditka, yet. 

But, no...not gaining yards to make it a closer, potentially game winning field goal because you're afraid of an interception or fumble is the dumbest thing I've ever seen a coach do. 

If you're that terrified of turnovers, become a car salesman. Or whatever. 

That would seem to be Nagy and he was selling real estate long ago so I guess working at a car lot would be a fit too.  New or used?

[dll2000]

I am writing this after loss to Packers in 2021 at home:

So how do you judge Pace and Nagy and parcel blame or credit for state of team?

We have some good young talent to be excited about, but not a good team.  And much of top vet talent is leaving building soon.    

Our O line is weak and our WR core is limited in talent.  That falls on Pace for certain.

On other hand, Pace has had some nice drafts of late.   Borom and Jenkins may end up having talent, but getting players like that in 2021 too little too late or just in time for Fields era?

We also have Fields, Johnson, Mooney, Montgomery, and Herbert of late.   

Is Pace providing Nagy with talent and Nagy can't coach it?   But Pace is having a large say in coaching decisions and he is one who hand picked the coaches.  So it still comes back to Pace.

It was Pace who wanted to sit Fields all of 2021.   It was Pace who insisted on moving Daniels from center for a year.   

I think I am disappointed with Nagy offense to know he is not the guy.   

But a silver of me thinks we could do worse than Pace at GM as he makes some nice draft picks.   But does he give up too much in trades?

 But it keeps coming back to trenches.   You win games on with QB and with DL and OL in football and with explosive players on outside.   That hasn't really ever changed.  You don't have that you can't win.   If Pace doesn't understand that he isn't fit for job.  

After 7 years of Pace we are weak in offensive trenches and lack explosive play makers on outside on both O and D (our best outside players are Mooney - O and Johnson - D) who are good, but not world beaters.

Compare that to other teams rosters and it doesn't look good.  You don't even have to compare to best outside talent like Dallas or Tampa Bay or the like who have multiple offensive weapons superior to ours and better O lines to boot.   

Bears are bottom 1/3 at best.   

I think in greater judgment of things I don't really want Pace or Nagy.   Nagy has shown that he is not a great teacher of execution or play design.   

I see Fields faking to no one again and again - how does that help?   Why put that into a play?  

I see guys missing assignments a lot.  

I see WRs not getting open against 3rd stringers (Packers) a lot because of weak pattern concepts and play design.    I see wrong players starting in many cases through years.   

I see that show a lot of promise and unique talent like Horsted not getting real opportunities or being developed. 

Would we have seen a lot of Herbert this year if injuries didn't force him in?   It is obvious that he should have been no. 2 to Montgomery, is that not obvious to Nagy?

Why can't Nagy see that our center is doing terrible?   Why couldn't he see Long was back when?   

Worst of all.  Worst of ALL he was going to sit Fields this entire year and give him 'mental reps' while he ran scout team in practice.   Can you imagine what this would feel like if we were watching Dalton lose to Packers?   Instead of a promise of future hope?   It would be so much worse. 

I think I judge them both wanting at this point and would like to move on.    Actually felt this way last year.   This season has not changed my mind.  

[Heinz D.]

8 hours ago, dll2000 said:

We have some good young talent to be excited about, but not a good team.  And much of top vet talent is leaving building soon.    

I've said it before, and it's truth.

The Bears are rebuilding. AGAIN.

[blkwdw13]

17 minutes ago, Heinz D. said:

I've said it before, and it's truth.

The Bears are rebuilding. AGAIN.

They should have been rebuilding this year, but nope Nagy and the rest got at least one more year.

[Heinz D.]

58 minutes ago, blkwdw13 said:

They should have been rebuilding this year, but nope Nagy and the rest got at least one more year.

Well...Pace apparently looks at Nagy as part of the new rebuild. 

Don't ask me why. I have no clue. 

[dll2000]

Pace finds good value in overlooked players who can contribute which is nice, but he hasn’t built a complete roster and still isn’t near one in 7 years and cannot recognize that bad execution comes from coaching practices.  It isn’t dumb luck. 

It isn’t rocket science.  Finding QBs is hard, granted.  Pass there.  But O line (tackles and centers not so much guards) and explosive playmakers are essential.  He should have understood that from day 1. 

It’s like he just discovered that idea or premise in 2021 offseason.  You can’t do it all in one year.  

 

 

[abstract_thought]

1 hour ago, dll2000 said:

Pace finds good value in overlooked players who can contribute which is nice, but he hasn’t built a complete roster and still isn’t near one in 7 years and cannot recognize that bad execution comes from coaching practices.  It isn’t dumb luck. 

He’s pretty good at scouting. But that doesn’t make up for his numerous other shortcomings. He needs to be a personnel guy like he was before he came here.

[dll2000]

1 minute ago, abstract_thought said:

He’s pretty good at scouting. But that doesn’t make up for his numerous other shortcomings. He needs to be a personnel guy like he was before he came here.

You are right.  Gave me a thought.  Ego is a problem that has to be overcome.  

You have to able to self scout.  Take myself for example.  I was a great coach for limited knowledge I possessed at middle school level. 

It is hard to admit, but I was not a great head coach. Mainly   because I lack patience and proper tact for dealing with non football matters, administration and parents.  I also lack the personal charisma necessary to make those tasks easier and hard decisions palatable to others.  Those things are essential to the task.  

I am better suited for a coordinator or assistant position under a charismatic head coach willing to listen.

I could only be a head coach if I had a charismatic go between to handle other things for me.  

Take a guy like Parcells. He knows what is necessary to build a winning roster, but his ego is such that he would be unwilling to listen to others like a Pace with good ideas for mid round picks or listen to dissenting opinions with a willingness to change his mind.   You can’t do everything yourself and you have to recognize that.  

Pace conversely needs a guy like Parcells to bluntly tell him what works overall and what doesn’t.

You have to recognize where you are weak and others are strong and adjust your practices, org. and situation accordingly.  

Jimmy Johnson and Jerry Jones were best together, but their egos couldn’t use each other’s strengths and weaknesses and they blew it up.  

[abstract_thought]

52 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

You are right.  Gave me a thought.  Ego is a problem that has to be overcome.  

You have to able to self scout.  Take myself for example.  I was a great coach for limited knowledge I possessed at middle school level. 

It is hard to admit, but I was not a great head coach. Mainly   because I lack patience and proper tact for dealing with non football matters, administration and parents.  I also lack the personal charisma necessary to make those tasks easier and hard decisions palatable to others.  Those things are essential to the task.  

I am better suited for a coordinator or assistant position under a charismatic head coach willing to listen.

I could only be a head coach if I had a charismatic go between to handle other things for me.  

Take a guy like Parcells. He knows what is necessary to build a winning roster, but his ego is such that he would be unwilling to listen to others like a Pace with good ideas for mid round picks or listen to dissenting opinions with a willingness to change his mind.   You can’t do everything yourself and you have to recognize that.  

Pace conversely needs a guy like Parcells to bluntly tell him what works overall and what doesn’t.

You have to recognize where you are weak and others are strong and adjust your practices, org. and situation accordingly.  

Jimmy Johnson and Jerry Jones were best together, but their egos couldn’t use each other’s strengths and weaknesses and they blew it up.  

Bottom line is that in any field there are people who are more suited to direction and there are people more suited to specifics. The temperaments, skills, and personality required are completely different between those things. Not every genius pianist is a composer. Some just love playing the piano.

Often the most masterful people struggle when asked to look at things at a broader level. Their passion is for specifics - that's what makes them good in the 1st place.