Madmike90 Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 27 minutes ago, dll2000 said: Hoge and Jahns said he stood out in practices all offseason and camp as well. I think the other thing is if there is one position in all of football you can make an instant impact even as a later round pick it's RB... According to the announcers during the Packers game the front office were shocked he was their in the 6th and had much higher grades on him... I said before the season I thought he could be the best surprise to come out this draft...we need to find a way of getting more than one of these guys on the field when all three RBs are back since they are all talented and versatile. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 2 hours ago, Madmike90 said: I think the other thing is if there is one position in all of football you can make an instant impact even as a later round pick it's RB... According to the announcers during the Packers game the front office were shocked he was their in the 6th and had much higher grades on him... I said before the season I thought he could be the best surprise to come out this draft...we need to find a way of getting more than one of these guys on the field when all three RBs are back since they are all talented and versatile. Its great to have a dynamic RB. RBs touch ball most after QB. But honestly the position is extremely OL dependent. A good OL makes most NFL caliber RBs look good. A bad one does opposite. It used to be a little different when teams ran mostly I formation or had multiple backs in backfield. RBs were more important then. Zone with single back - almost totally O line dependent. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 1 hour ago, dll2000 said: Its great to have a dynamic RB. RBs touch ball most after QB. But honestly the position is extremely OL dependent. A good OL makes most NFL caliber RBs look good. A bad one does opposite. It used to be a little different when teams ran mostly I formation or had multiple backs in backfield. RBs were more important then. Zone with single back - almost totally O line dependent. Always amazing when RBs go first round. Even the truly great ones. Seems like you can get same result by getting an OL in first round and then getting an RB in the later rounds. Maybe Elliott as an exception? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmike90 Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 5 minutes ago, RunningVaccs said: Always amazing when RBs go first round. Even the truly great ones. Seems like you can get same result by getting an OL in first round and then getting an RB in the later rounds. Maybe Elliott as an exception? Behind Smith & Martin who were 1st round picks & Collins who without the off field would have been? That Dallas OL is the best in football and make Zeke's life pretty easy... Only Saquon when he was fully healthy & Henry fall into the category of it not mattering how good their OL was in this era...AP & LT before that but that's about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 8 minutes ago, RunningVaccs said: Always amazing when RBs go first round. Even the truly great ones. Seems like you can get same result by getting an OL in first round and then getting an RB in the later rounds. Maybe Elliott as an exception? He wasn't good when Dallas O line had injuries. Good again when they are healthy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinz D. Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 20 hours ago, Sugashane said: Gotcha. I didn't realize having good college tape ensured one would be good in the pros. What? Ensured...no...but--WHAT? 20 hours ago, Sugashane said: We need to get some scouts in on this. I guess the other 31 teams never looked and saw it. It's the pandemic weighing on the draft. It's why we got Borom, too. 20 hours ago, Sugashane said: While RB is likely the easiest transition from college to pro, most still have an adjustment period. Henry is by far the best runner and didn't start hot by any means. Shockingly his tape was WAY better than Herbert's too. I'm confused by this...are you asserting that I'm claiming Herbert was clearly the best back in the draft? 20 hours ago, Sugashane said: Let's be real, the Packers are giving up 4.5 YPC for the season too. So Sunday was a fluke--and Herbert sucks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugashane Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 48 minutes ago, Heinz D. said: What? Ensured...no...but--WHAT? It's the pandemic weighing on the draft. It's why we got Borom, too. I'm confused by this...are you asserting that I'm claiming Herbert was clearly the best back in the draft? So Sunday was a fluke--and Herbert sucks? You made it sound as if it was an absolute fact he would be good... Because you researched him after he was drafted. IE- highlights mean he is good. The pandemic made much less of an impact than it did the previous year. They simply had other people picked because teams liked/needed other prospects. How the hell did you come to that conclusion? Literally nothing I said remotely inferred that. Lol Never said either. GB is a crap run defense. Shockingly you don't crown anyone or call them a bust after one game, nor from highlights from college. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinz D. Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 57 minutes ago, Sugashane said: You made it sound as if it was an absolute fact he would be good... Because you researched him after he was drafted. IE- highlights mean he is good. Umm...no...somebody else said that he was shocked that Herbert did well. I merely stated that, from his college tape, he looked pretty darn good. Not sure what's vexing about that... 59 minutes ago, Sugashane said: The pandemic made much less of an impact than it did the previous year. They simply had other people picked because teams liked/needed other prospects. Everyone has stated that the pandemic had the worst impact on the last draft. And by "everyone", I mean scouts, football writers, front office people, etc. 1 hour ago, Sugashane said: How the hell did you come to that conclusion? Literally nothing I said remotely inferred that. Lol I didn't come to a conclusion. In fact, I was really confused as to what you were getting at--and said as much. 1 hour ago, Sugashane said: Never said either. GB is a crap run defense. Shockingly you don't crown anyone or call them a bust after one game, nor from highlights from college. Does this statement actually mean something? Am I supposed to be able to respond to it in some meaningful way? Because I'm currently at a loss as to how to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beardown3231 Posted October 22, 2021 Author Share Posted October 22, 2021 6 minutes ago, Heinz D. said: Umm...no...somebody else said that he was shocked that Herbert did well. I merely stated that, from his college tape, he looked pretty darn good. Not sure what's vexing about that... Everyone has stated that the pandemic had the worst impact on the last draft. And by "everyone", I mean scouts, football writers, front office people, etc. I didn't come to a conclusion. In fact, I was really confused as to what you were getting at--and said as much. Does this statement actually mean something? Am I supposed to be able to respond to it in some meaningful way? Because I'm currently at a loss as to how to do so. I stand by what I said- when a rookie at any position who's taken in the 200's has this good of a rookie year, it's surprising. I can find great college highlights of anyone drafted. I could find good ones of f***ing Kylie Fitts. That's why these guys are taken so late- a few traits that stand out among their many weaknesses. If you're not surprised, so be it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinz D. Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 40 minutes ago, beardown3231 said: I stand by what I said- when a rookie at any position who's taken in the 200's has this good of a rookie year, it's surprising. I can find great college highlights of anyone drafted. I could find good ones of f***ing Kylie Fitts. That's why these guys are taken so late- a few traits that stand out among their many weaknesses. If you're not surprised, so be it. Many folks had him rated higher than where he was selected. Same with Borom. People were saying covid messed the whole process up. No reason to overreact on your part, though. It was just a single game. Lot of season left. I'd be shocked if he busted, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G08 Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 Kid's got solid vision, better feet and an outstanding ability to start/stop and cut at full speed. I can't wait for Montgomery to get healthy and have Herbert backing him up. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epyon Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 1 hour ago, G08 said: Kid's got solid vision, better feet and an outstanding ability to start/stop and cut at full speed. I can't wait for Montgomery to get healthy and have Herbert backing him up. Especially considering the noticeable physical gains Monty makes each offseason.... I've said it a few times now, but if Herbert can spend the offseason w/ Monty and make the same kinds of physical gains we are gonna end up with an elite RB 1-2 punch. Related to the running game, is anyone else rather disappointed from what we've seen from Fields as a runner so far? He's had very poor ball security as a runner, taken hugeunnecessary hits (especially to the head), took that awkward hit from behind where he hyper extended his knee, and despite being way more physically gifted, seems to be worse than Trubisky at actually gaining yardage as a runner. With his physical ability, I've been kind of expecting at least one game where he just shreds a team for 75+yards and makes them pay, and we just aren't seeing it (or anything close to it) yet. 14 hours ago, dll2000 said: But honestly the position is extremely OL dependent. A good OL makes most NFL caliber RBs look good. OL play is definitely critical to a RB, but I would put a caveat that running with zone blocking scheme does actually put a lot of pressure on the RB himself to make reads, cuts, and typically one man miss, the runner is almost never taking the ball to the designated hole from the playcall.... Power run game, on the other hand, can remove much of that thought process. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abstract_thought Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 9 hours ago, Epyon said: Related to the running game, is anyone else rather disappointed from what we've seen from Fields as a runner so far? He's had very poor ball security as a runner, taken hugeunnecessary hits (especially to the head), took that awkward hit from behind where he hyper extended his knee, and despite being way more physically gifted, seems to be worse than Trubisky at actually gaining yardage as a runner. With his physical ability, I've been kind of expecting at least one game where he just shreds a team for 75+yards and makes them pay, and we just aren't seeing it (or anything close to it) yet. To be fair, I don't think the Bears are calling many designed runs for him. But I think this goes back to him settling into the timing of the NFL game, especially with the Bears' struggles in pass protection. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 9 hours ago, Epyon said: OL play is definitely critical to a RB, but I would put a caveat that running with zone blocking scheme does actually put a lot of pressure on the RB himself to make reads, cuts, and typically one man miss, the runner is almost never taking the ball to the designated hole from the playcall.... Power run game, on the other hand, can remove much of that thought process. Agreed. Actually a lot of coaches have changed the read to the ILB rather than a DL, i have tried both and I found the ILB read works 100x better. A lot of coaches haven't figured that out yet and still read the DL. People get stuck in their ways and don't experiment. A lot of RBs don't bother with any kind of read. They try to just play. If you watch Bears they seem to screw up assignments so much it makes reads really difficult. You will see a backside guard trying to get to a LB on other side of center. Impossible. Just crazy stuff. Not even sure what rules they are trying to follow when I bother to look at it close. A lot of times it just makes no sense. Not sure if players are screwing it up or coaches or both. I strongly suspect problem is they are trying to do too many different blocking schemes and with guys moving in and out it just screws things up. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beardown3231 Posted October 23, 2021 Author Share Posted October 23, 2021 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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