Fire Pace and Nagy

[BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW]

10 minutes ago, abstract_thought said:

The only rationale I can think of is that Bears management thinks the playoffs will generate more fan excitement.

As evidenced by this season, that would be wrong.

There is a bizarre metric working for Bears fans in that the SF game was the one that people I know were most excited about: ie, they LOST but Fields looked good which seems best long term. 

[soulman]

15 hours ago, abstract_thought said:

Biggs is hinting that the Bears didn't sell at the deadline because they still believe they can make the playoffs.

This regime is delusional. The only plan is to scratch and claw into the postseason so you can lose to a real contender.

I think it's even more of a sign that there are few buyers due to the reduction in the cap.

Who do we have anyone would want?  ARob or Hicks?  Both UFA in 2021.

Whose gonna "rent" ARob for 8-9 games for $9 mil or Hicks for $5 mil and change.

I may have thought differently prior to this season but now I feel it's time we moved on from both unless somehow GMcC is willing to promote Pace and either hire or promote a new GM.

Pace drafts well on the 3rd day but his failures on earlier picks along with trading multiple picks for a single player have cost us talent as well.  Each good pick is all too often negated by a bad one and we've ended up drafting the same position multiple times.

If Pace or Nagy actually believe they have a playoff level roster they have quite an imagination and IMHO that's even more reason to move on.  The overall talent and depth is just not there and every year Pace has left holes and weaknesses in his roster.

Everything should now be focused on building an offense around Justin Fields.  Yeah, Pace and Nagy drafted him but they're also the reason he played 2nd fiddle to Dalton all summer long leaving him under prepared now and struggling to mesh with his starters now.

Pace and Nagy have never been much better than mediocre as team builders and both are capable of making some truly horrible decisions.  They aren't the pairing to get full value from Justin Fields and take the Bears to the next level.  JMHO

[Nads786]

4 hours ago, soulman said:

I think it's even more of a sign that there are few buyers due to the reduction in the cap.

Who do we have anyone would want?  ARob or Hicks?  Both UFA in 2021.

Whose gonna "rent" ARob for 8-9 games for $9 mil or Hicks for $5 mil and change.

I may have thought differently prior to this season but now I feel it's time we moved on from both unless somehow GMcC is willing to promote Pace and either hire or promote a new GM.

Pace drafts well on the 3rd day but his failures on earlier picks along with trading multiple picks for a single player have cost us talent as well.  Each good pick is all too often negated by a bad one and we've ended up drafting the same position multiple times.

If Pace or Nagy actually believe they have a playoff level roster they have quite an imagination and IMHO that's even more reason to move on.  The overall talent and depth is just not there and every year Pace has left holes and weaknesses in his roster.

Everything should now be focused on building an offense around Justin Fields.  Yeah, Pace and Nagy drafted him but they're also the reason he played 2nd fiddle to Dalton all summer long leaving him under prepared now and struggling to mesh with his starters now.

Pace and Nagy have never been much better than mediocre as team builders and both are capable of making some truly horrible decisions.  They aren't the pairing to get full value from Justin Fields and take the Bears to the next level.  JMHO

I have to agree here. Pace has been too aggressive in all his dealings and has not truly built through the draft. His drafting has been so-so and the W/L record is everything you need to know about his drafting ability. 

I just can't phantom Bears leadership has any idea who to actually hire.

[dll2000]

21 hours ago, CBears019 said:

I think it’s a sign that pace and or Nagy are under a playoffs or bust year.  Why would they sell if they need to make the playoffs to keep their jobs?  Sure they’d be getting picks and helping the future of the team, but that future would be without them.

I suspect it was simply nobody wanted what they were offering to trade.  But we will never know.

I think even Bears have to know now they aren’t a legit competitor for anything meaningful this year. 

It’s all about future and Fields.  Why we didn’t realize that since draft I don’t know.  

[abstract_thought]

@soulman, @dll2000 I'd take that view too, but then there's this:

 

[topwop1]

23 hours ago, abstract_thought said:

Biggs is hinting that the Bears didn't sell at the deadline because they still believe they can make the playoffs.

This regime is delusional. The only plan is to scratch and claw into the postseason so you can lose to a real contender.

I wouldn't say it's because they actually believe they can make they playoffs, but more so that they have no choice but to try and make the playoffs or else they know they're done here.

That being said it makes sense that they wouldn't want to off load some of their better players because that would further reduce the already slim chance that they make the PO's. 

Trading expiring contracts for future draft picks does nothing to help a regime that needs to win now.

Also considering the trade deadline rarely produces much action for most teams, it's no surprise the Bears didn't make any moves here.

I think this no action further solidifies that Pace & Nagy jobs are indeed on the line here, which is what we all want isn't it?

[dll2000]

5 minutes ago, topwop1 said:

I wouldn't say it's because they actually believe they can make they playoffs, but more so that they have no choice but to try and make the playoffs or else they know they're done here.

That being said it makes sense that they wouldn't want to off load some of their better players because that would further reduce the already slim chance that they make the PO's. 

Trading expiring contracts for future draft picks does nothing to help a regime that needs to win now.

Also considering the trade deadline rarely produces much action for most teams, it's no surprise the Bears didn't make any moves here.

I think this no action further solidifies that Pace & Nagy jobs are indeed on the line here, which is what we all want isn't it?

Well it would be nice if they traded non-performing or expensive assets for draft picks on their way out.

But I get that they don't want to leave.   

If they traded their best veterans the losses could and would get ugly and they have no chance of staying.   So I understanding their thinking, but it isn't what is best for the team.

Honestly, when they drafted the rookie they should have tempered expectations and just played him from jump.   That was their best chance of survival.   Then they would have been measured by Fields gains from start to finish of year rather than wins and losses.

Trying to train and win with Dalton was a stupid strategy and plan.

 

 

[abstract_thought]

1 hour ago, topwop1 said:

I wouldn't say it's because they actually believe they can make they playoffs, but more so that they have no choice but to try and make the playoffs or else they know they're done here.

That being said it makes sense that they wouldn't want to off load some of their better players because that would further reduce the already slim chance that they make the PO's.

Which brings us back to the question: Why would you allow them to move up for a QB only to give them a “playoffs or bust” ultimatum?

[topwop1]

1 hour ago, abstract_thought said:

Which brings us back to the question: Why would you allow them to move up for a QB only to give them a “playoffs or bust” ultimatum?

This was an ownership decision so we cannot really blame Pace & Nagy. I think there were other factors at play last offseason, such as less income with no attendance due to COVID and with Pace & Nagy both having 2 years remaining on their deals at the time.

Trading up to draft Fields was the obvious move to make for a franchise that has long struggled to get the position right, regardless if the GM & HC were knowingly or not on the hot seat heading into this season.

For all we know Pace may end up surviving another HC change and J Fields will likely be his saving grace if that case presents itself.

If the QB shows progress but the team is coached to a losing record and misses the POs then it's a very plausible scenario.

And to answer Windy's question earlier, I don't think many coaches if any at all would be scared at the prospect of being paired up with Pace as the GM here.

Usually new head coaching hires get at least 2 years anyway to show their stuff.  You cannot be scared to jump at the opportunity since there are so little of them to begin with, and I say this quite a lot but at least this team is known for giving their head coaches a fair shot.

[topwop1]

4 hours ago, dll2000 said:

Well it would be nice if they traded non-performing or expensive assets for draft picks on their way out.

But I get that they don't want to leave.   

If they traded their best veterans the losses could and would get ugly and they have no chance of staying.   So I understanding their thinking, but it isn't what is best for the team.

Honestly, when they drafted the rookie they should have tempered expectations and just played him from jump.   That was their best chance of survival.   Then they would have been measured by Fields gains from start to finish of year rather than wins and losses.

Trying to train and win with Dalton was a stupid strategy and plan.

 

 

It would be yes but it's also unrealistic to expect them to pull that off.  Who's going to take on all that salary for guys like Jimmy Graham or Danny Trevethan, etc?

Guys like Robert Quinn and Khalil Mack have both played really well this year, and we all saw how poorly the defense has looked the past few weeks with Mack playing hurt and also being out a game, so I wouldn't even want to get rid of those guys right now as much as it might help the books moving forward.   I mean who's going to replace them next year with limited draft picks?

Even if we start fresh with a new coach, you still want to be able to field a competitive team around Justin Fields.

[soulman]

9 hours ago, Nads786 said:

I just can't phantom Bears leadership has any idea who to actually hire.

One possibility is a vertical move of Pace to an Exec VP role more or less replacing Teddy Bear's football role while he tends to the move to Arlington Heights.

We have two personnel guys, Josh Lucas and Champ Kelly who are highly respected around the NFL.  Move Lucas to the GM spot and Kelly to Director of Player Personnel.  This solution allows the McCaskey's to retain Pace whom they seem to like while reducing his impact on player personnel decisions and drafting.  It also preserves some front office continuity.

Then a search for a new HC can involve Pace along with Lucas and possibly Kelly as well along with GMcC with Teddy Bears as the odd man out.  He's been a bad luck omen all too often.  My reasoning for including all three is from this point forward all efforts should be focused on a HC and Coaching Staff fixated on making Justin Fields into an All Pro QB.

That means the Coaching Staff and GM/Personnel Dept. will all need to be on the same page and have identical priorities as far as building a championship roster goes.  IMHO this is where we've failed in the past.  We've added talent but was it always the right talent at the right positions?  Our record and lack of success says no, we have not.

I'm not claiming this is the only solution or the best one but rather one that avoids a complete upheaval knowing just how much GMcC will want to avoid that.  Sure, it still leaves Pace in the mix to hire a new HC but with greater input from others.  Nagy wasn't a bad choice as much as he simply failed to deliver on his promises.  When that happens you get fired.

Edited November 4, 2021 by soulman

[Heinz D.]

8 hours ago, dll2000 said:

If they traded their best veterans the losses could and would get ugly and they have no chance of staying.   So I understanding their thinking, but it isn't what is best for the team.

Which is exactly why they should have already been fired...

[Epyon]

I'm torn on pace....

On one hand, he's responsible for the Mack and Fields moves, and has found some later round gems.... and to promote him to football ops can make sense given his moves towards revamping Halas (and no idea if he was involved at all in Arlington Hgts)

On the other hand.... I flat out do not trust him to get a GM or HC pick right at this point (which he'd be involved with if promoted), nor can I say I'm very thrilled with our early round draft picks basically at all (which really sours me on keeping him as GM).

The flip flip side, is I'd trust the McCasky family even less to pick a new GM or a HC themselves, so maybe promoting Pace really is the best option here.

 

[Sugashane]

13 hours ago, abstract_thought said:

@soulman, @dll2000 I'd take that view too, but then there's this:

 

We don't see them challenging for the playoffs because we watch the damn games. Lol

[soulman]

8 hours ago, Sugashane said:

We don't see them challenging for the playoffs because we watch the damn games. Lol

LOL.....playing ostrich can only get you so far.  When all of those past promises have been broken this many times it's time to break the chain.

No one expects them to throw in the towel but 3 more wins is about all I see right now.  And even if by some miracle they win 8 games total and back into the playoffs again, what does that prove?  Nada.

We did that last year.  Did it help any this year?  Nope.  Nagy's team is just as unprepared as always.  The OL looks like a Chinese Fire Drill and the defense is starting to crumble with key injuries and too many second and third tier players filling starting positions.