Fire Pace and Nagy

[Madmike90]

8 minutes ago, soulman said:

Interview or hire?

Hire.

[Heinz D.]

12 hours ago, Madmike90 said:

I never really buy anything Hub says but if it is true that George told Nagy to start Fields then his time as head coach was already over.

I refuse to believe that the decision to start Fields was Nagy's. He was forced to do it. Don't know if came from Spurious George, or not...

5 hours ago, Madmike90 said:

Like I said...you vastly under estimate how big this franchise and market is...I have very little to no doubt we won't get a top candidate.

You don't think they'll be more than one? With Fields in the fold, I'd imagine they'll be several...provided the Bears fire Nagy in time. If they don't, all bets are off. 

[Madmike90]

2 minutes ago, Heinz D. said:

I refuse to believe that the decision to start Fields was Nagy's. He was forced to do it. Don't know if came from Spurious George, or not...

You don't think they'll be more than one? With Fields in the fold, I'd imagine they'll be several...provided the Bears fire Nagy in time. If they don't, all bets are off. 

Several will want the job and we will hire a top candidate.

[Heinz D.]

21 minutes ago, Madmike90 said:

Several will want the job and we will hire a top candidate.

I think my caveat holds true--but nonetheless, thanks for that! You're a ray of sunshine on an otherwise bleak Midwestern day!  (No, an incompetent win over an 0-9-1 team didn't help at all...) 

Edited November 25, 2021 by Heinz D.

[soulman]

3 hours ago, Madmike90 said:

Several will want the job and we will hire a top candidate.

Nagy was a top prospect too or from what you've posted the hottest of the hot.

I dunno about you but to me we seem to win more without the very hottest prospects around.

Guess I'm that bleak Midwestern day huh?

Edited November 26, 2021 by soulman

[Heinz D.]

59 minutes ago, soulman said:

Nagy was a top prospect too or from what you've posted the hottest of the hot.

He was in a bunch. Not head and shoulders above anyone else, nor anything to write home about.

Cambell, Daboll, Moore, even Todd Bowles , would be hotter prospects than Nagy was at the time. And the Bears have a shot at any of them. 

[JAF-N72EX]

19 hours ago, Madmike90 said:

Hub Arkush

@Hub_Arkush

·

14h

#Bears chairman George McCaskey directed the Bears coaching staff to name Justin Fields the permanent starting quarterback prior to the Week 5 game against the Las Vegas Raiders, multiple sources tell Shaw Local

I never really buy anything Hub says but if it is true that George told Nagy to start Fields then his time as head coach was already over.

7 hours ago, Heinz D. said:

I refuse to believe that the decision to start Fields was Nagy's. He was forced to do it. Don't know if came from Spurious George, or not...

If it was McCaskey who ordered the hit on Fields then this only further proves my point about the lack of infrastructure in Halas Hall I was referring to in the other thread.

Okay, I get why a GM would be so involved in making major changes to the roster (even though I don't always agree with that either)..... but the owner?!? WTH! Then what the hell did you hire Pace to begin with if you were gonna step all over him and micromanage every aspect anyhow?

This begs the question. Was it actually McCaskey who threw Mitch to the wolves in 2017 and not Pace?

Nah....I'm still leaning more blame towards Pace on both accounts here (and as you all know I've defended him to the utmost). I 100% think it was him who called for Mitch and Fields. 

It's obvious Nagy wanted to sit Fields behind Dalton (who btw doesn't have an injury history) and keep Fields as the #2 so he could throw him in for a few plays here and there and ease him into the offense like Shanny is doing with Lance. But once Dalton got injured he was forced to start Fields and there was no turning back after that.

[soulman]

6 hours ago, Heinz D. said:

He was in a bunch. Not head and shoulders above anyone else, nor anything to write home about.

Cambell, Daboll, Moore, even Todd Bowles , would be hotter prospects than Nagy was at the time. And the Bears have a shot at any of them. 

Mike had previously posted that he believed Nagy was THE hot HC prospect when hired.  I feel more as you do but I really don't want to split hairs.  More than anything what's surfaced over 4 years is the mistaken belief that Nagy is any kind of an offensive guru or QB Whisperer.  He's not.

The flipside of our debate is based on the idea that simply being a major market team will create a line out the door of willing prospects.  I don't believe this at all.  In fact a younger less experienced OC like Moore may want to seriously evaluate the risks involved with coming here to fix this mess.

IMHO whoever takes the job will probably do so based on a $4-$5 mil per year paycheck as opposed to making 1/3 of that or less as an OC.  I have no doubt we'll try to hire someone from the "short list" but my belief is still gonna be that we should broaden our search to find the best leader, motivator, and team builder.

That's my two cents and I'm gonna let it ride.

[soulman]

3 hours ago, JAF-N72EX said:

If it was McCaskey who ordered the hit on Fields then this only further proves my point about the lack of infrastructure in Halas Hall I was referring to in the other thread.

If it is true then it might also explain why GMcC is willing to let Nagy off the hook.  JMHO

[JAF-N72EX]

20 hours ago, soulman said:

If it is true then it might also explain why GMcC is willing to let Nagy off the hook.  JMHO

What do you mean? (Not being a smartass or anything but just trying to clarify).

Are you picturing a scenario where Nagy isn't fired because it was GMC's idea to start Fields and not Nagy's (even though Nagy didn't want to) and therefore admit he was wrong and give Nagy a pass because of it? (And feel free to correct me if my interpretation is wrong here)

If that's the angle you're leaning towards then I can def behind that idea 100%. It would make alot of sense to/.

I already fear that Fields being Nagy's first chosen QB in the draft alone might be enough to persuade the brass to keep him for atleast another year. This compounded by the idea that I still think Fields ends the season on a positive note that gives everyone hope and I could see the brass using this as a reason to give him another year with Fields.

Now, going back to your possible idea here (or what I think you are going with this anyhow) then GMC interfering with the process and telling Nagy to start Fields is just another added layer of concern that Nagy may not be fired at all. 

Just a thought is all. We'll see.

Edited November 27, 2021 by JAF-N72EX

[soulman]

1 hour ago, JAF-N72EX said:

What do you mean? (Not being a smartass or anything but just trying to clarify).

Are you picturing a scenario where Nagy isn't fired because it was GMC's idea to start Fields and not Nagy's (even though Nagy didn't want to) and therefore admit he was wrong and give Nagy a pass because of it? (And feel free to correct me if my interpretation is wrong here)

If that's the angle you're leaning towards then I can def behind that idea 100%. It would make alot of sense to/.

Not so much that as having decided to keep to the tradition of refusing to fire a HC during the season although if they hope to take advantage of that two week window for interviews later on they have a decision to make then.

1 hour ago, JAF-N72EX said:

I already fear that Fields being Nagy's first chosen QB in the draft alone might be enough to persuade the brass to keep him for atleast another year. This compounded by the idea that I still think Fields ends the season on a positive note that gives everyone hope and I could see the brass using this as a reason to give him another year with Fields.

Now, going back to your possible idea here (or what I think you are going with this anyhow) then GMC interfering with the process and telling Nagy to start Fields is just another added layer of concern that Nagy may not be fired at all. 

Just a thought is all. We'll see.

I still believe Nagy's fate has already been decided.  Based on both his W/L record, this years ongoing struggles, and the rankings of his offenses I can't see any way they can justify keeping Nagy on no matter what happens over the next 6 weeks.  Fields isn't benefiting from Nagy's coaching.  That much is crystal clear.

How many more wins can you see?  Two maybe?  So we finish 6-11 this year following to consecutive 8-8 seasons.  Nagy goes 22-27/.449 over the last three seasons.  He's regressed. If Nagy isn't fired Bears fans will storm Halas Hall and the Chicago media alone will crucify GMcC, Teddy Bears, and Pace. 

Nah, this is the end for Matt Nagy but I believe they'll want to preserve some dignity about the way they go about it.  They may cut him loose prior to the NYG game in order to begin interviews but even that seems like a 50/50 shot.  All in all it will be easier for all of them to face the media with their reasoning being the kind of progress required didn't happen.

But in the end it all comes down to their willingness or unwillingness to hire a head of football ops.  Someone over Ryan Pace who know NFL football and to be honest I can't see it happening yet.  They believe Pace is that guy and I believe he's stay on because to fire him or even hire someone over him means Teddy and GMcC will have to admit how badly they mismanaged this team and I don't believe they will do that now and maybe not ever.

[Heinz D.]

On 11/26/2021 at 1:00 AM, JAF-N72EX said:

Nah....I'm still leaning more blame towards Pace on both accounts here (and as you all know I've defended him to the utmost). I 100% think it was him who called for Mitch and Fields. 

I'd imagine it was Pace, yeah. 

On 11/26/2021 at 1:00 AM, JAF-N72EX said:

It's obvious Nagy wanted to sit Fields behind Dalton (who btw doesn't have an injury history) and keep Fields as the #2 so he could throw him in for a few plays here and there and ease him into the offense like Shanny is doing with Lance. But once Dalton got injured he was forced to start Fields and there was no turning back after that.

Yeah, that was pretty much Nagy's plan, you nailed it there, I think. An awful plan, too. If he truly wanted Fields to sit, Foles should have been second string--at least to begin the year.

And I think that he could have went back to Dalton had Fields not provided an immediate spark...but he did, and the rest is history. 

8 hours ago, soulman said:

How many more wins can you see?  Two maybe?  So we finish 6-11 this year following to consecutive 8-8 seasons.  Nagy goes 22-27/.449 over the last three seasons.  He's regressed. If Nagy isn't fired Bears fans will storm Halas Hall and the Chicago media alone will crucify GMcC, Teddy Bears, and Pace. 

I can see them winning more than two, especially if Fields can come back soon. Of course, they may not win another, either. It's a tough prediction. 

Nagy being fired isn't though. The only time the McCaskey's are motivated to take bold moves that go against their established plans is when they've been publicly humiliated. That's already begun, and it isn't going to stop any time soon. 

8 hours ago, soulman said:

But in the end it all comes down to their willingness or unwillingness to hire a head of football ops.  Someone over Ryan Pace who know NFL football and to be honest I can't see it happening yet.  They believe Pace is that guy and I believe he's stay on because to fire him or even hire someone over him means Teddy and GMcC will have to admit how badly they mismanaged this team and I don't believe they will do that now and maybe not ever.

It all depends on whether they are determined to keep Pace as GM, or simply part of the organization. I can easily see them promoting him to Grand Football Poobah, or whatever the hell they'd call it. Of course, if they start talks with Rick Smith, there's a chance he may want to be GM and Prez. 

It'll be interesting to see how it all plays out. Everyone is piling on ownership right now--don't be surprised if they panic and inadvertently do the right thing...

[soulman]

1 hour ago, Heinz D. said:

It'll be interesting to see how it all plays out. Everyone is piling on ownership right now--don't be surprised if they panic and inadvertently do the right thing...

LOLOL.....that would be a first.  Like that Elvin Bishop tune I posted those dudes can't even do wrong right either.

The pure fact on the matter is that we have proof of complete incompetence in the manner of the history of the Bears under McCaskey ownership.

The further problem is that no one else has a big enough share of ownership to turn the good ship Bears in a different direction so the status quo never changes.

Win or lose the Bears are making a lot of money for their owners.  Over the past decade the value of the franchise has more than doubled from less than $2 bil to over $4 bil.

They are the owners.  We are the consumers and like much of corporate America the owners make all the bread ($$$) and tell us peon to eat cake or more correctly cake crumbs.

IMHO there's only two ways to attack this issue with the McCaskeys.  Hurt them financially which is nigh on to impossible to do because of the NFL revenue sharing cartel.

But, by not showing up for games, refusing to buy jerseys and other Bears merchandise, and through a relentless media campaign they can become embarrasses and financially dinged.

Embarrassment is their Achilles Heel which is why all three of the upper echelon stay hidden all year long when things are going badly.  They will avoid being questioned like a know crook.

IMHO THAT is the only way we'll ever get home with that bunch.

[BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW]

Picturing George breathing a huge sigh of relief after the Bears squeaked by the Lions, and setting his milk down with a trembling hand,  thanking whatever gods he believes in that he wouldn't have to _do_ anything this week. 

 

[soulman]

1 hour ago, RunningVaccs said:

Picturing George breathing a huge sigh of relief after the Bears squeaked by the Lions, and setting his milk down with a trembling hand,  thanking whatever gods he believes in that he wouldn't have to _do_ anything this week. 

 

You really thing GMcC is a teetotaler?  Never met an Irishman yet who didn't appreciate a drink or two.  😂