JAF-N72EX Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 4 minutes ago, Sugashane said: Lewis was 0-7 in the postseason, so literally never was "challenging in" the postseason But you said winning seasons are your expectations of a GM, correct? If a team makes the playoffs then said GM reached your expectations by your standards then. Lewis made the playoffs 5 years in a row, Thompson made it X amount (I'm not going to look it up, I'm only going by memory), Robinson has led a team that has went 9-7 every single year for the last 5 years straight. Do you see how this is contradicting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugashane Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 (edited) 20 minutes ago, JAF-N72EX said: But you said winning seasons are your expectations of a GM, correct? If a team makes the playoffs then said GM reached your expectations by your standards then. Lewis made the playoffs 5 years in a row, Thompson made it X amount (I'm not going to look it up, I'm only going by memory), Robinson has led a team that has went 9-7 every single year for the last 5 years straight. Do you see how this is contradicting? No, I didn't. I said "in part" and then went into detail you're ignoring. What you put there implies nothing but winning seasons. You asked that question and seemed to already assume my answer was a simple "yes" and answered it as such. My post below clearly indicates more than that. Going 0-7 in the postseason isn't challenging. Thompson fielded teams that dominated and won something like 10 games since 2005. Pace in 0-1. Robinson is 3-2 in the postseason. Pace is 0-1. I said there would be ups and downs, so I am not expecting to hit the postseason every year. Every other year like Robinson means you're actually competitive and adapting, they made a switch from a bust at QB and have found a way to win. Chicago is 6 years into Pace's tenure and just are trying to find a way to not get embarrassed by good teams like they did by GB tonight. So no, it is not contradicting to what I said. 1 hour ago, Sugashane said: In part, yes. But that is too simplified. If that means missing the postseason repeatedly while going 9-7 that would still be unacceptable even if it is a winning season. I don't expect to walk through the division like NE did with Brady. There will be ups and downs, but there should be progress and consistently challenging in the postseason after getting a few years to get the team filled out with "your" guys. 1 postseason appearance and then putting forth an embarrassing performance isn't cutting it. Regressing with your new HC in back to back years isn't acceptable when it is a drastic drop and it is his supposed specialty that it happens in. Having a bottom 2 offense is NEVER acceptable. Being 2-11 vs Green Bay over his tenure is embarrassing. Hell take away the first 3 years to give credit for rebuilding and he is still 1-4 against them, and I'd bet soon to be 1-5. We beat bad teams with regularity and lose to good teams with regularity. Bad contracts will be made, bad draft picks. Pace can alleviate a lot of that with smart FA hires and plugging in depth guys who do one thing well. But on the entire offensive side of the ball he has been terrible. Edited November 30, 2020 by Sugashane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAF-N72EX Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 4 minutes ago, Sugashane said: No, I didn't. I said "in part" and then went into detail you're ignoring. What you put there implies nothing but winning seasons. You asked that question and seemed to already assume my answer was a simple "yes" and answered it as such. My post below clearly indicates more than that. Going 0-7 in the postseason isn't challenging. Thompson fielded teams that dominated and won something like 10 games since 2005. Pace in 0-1. Robinson is 3-2 in the postseason. Pace is 0-1. I said there would be ups and downs, so I am not expecting to hit the postseason every year. Every other year like Robinson means you're actually competitive and adapting, they made a switch from a bust at QB and have found a way to win. Chicago is 6 years into Pace's tenure and just are trying to find a way to not get embarrassed by good teams like they did by GB tonight. So no, it is not contradicting to what I said. I'm not ignoring it. You seem to be drawing a very fine line here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugashane Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 22 minutes ago, JAF-N72EX said: I'm not ignoring it. You seem to be drawing a very fine line here. So here is the general idea for me, assuming your team isn't going ape**** like with Emery I tend to believe GMs should get 5 years, and get to pick their HC. That can be year 1, 2, or 3 that they get their guy but I want to let the GM put the team together in their image. Pace got 3 years with Fox to clean house, then got to pick his guy. This is where it really starts to count to me, because he has rebuilt the team, got rid of old players and bad deals, etc. Now he has his HC and should be able to build an identity on both side of the ball. The coach should have a scheme and a type of player needed for it, and the GM should be able to find players that fit that profile or the ability to fit the needs for role players (power RB, blocking TEs, 2-down LBs, etc). Defensively Pace has done well, he has misses and hits but the defense is the only reason we aren't a 2 win team IMO. It is the only reason Nagy isn't a sub .500 HC right now too. Pace and Nagy have been a mediocre duo. I don't see what Pace has done to warrant a second swing at drafting a QB high or picking a new HC since he failed at both. Nagy to me might be an OC who could do really well with a young offensive HC (who calls the plays, not Nagy) because he has the apparent ability to get his players' trust. That is an asset that doesn't show on a boxscore, and one that young new HCs could use. But he has not developed an offensive identity and Pace has been unable to get decent talent on that side of the ball. I'm not sure we have anyone who has not regressed this year and certainly not from 2018 if they were on the team then too. (Maybe Montgomery hasn't regressed but remained limited due to run blocking?) To me that is on Pace and Nagy, Nagy's failures reflect on Pace. They have regressed the offense into an area of comical failure. Do I draw a fine line, yes. Unless you have shown something to warrant any more than that 5 year period, then you haven't earned the right to keep that position. I'm not saying to fire HCs every 1-2 years like CLE did for the better of a decade, but after 5 years the team looks like crap then is it worth investing further with this guy? I don't believe so. There needs to be clear expectations all the way back to the interview and the timelines for those expectations need to be discussed. If they are too much then the guy can (and should) move on. I was very up front last season when I said the 2020 season would be the make or break year for me with Pace and Nagy (Nagy in particular). If they fielded just an average offense then I would be fine with them as that showed the improvement I wanted to compete with good teams and make a potential postseason run. I didn't call for a 1st place finish in the division or NFC Championship appearance, but if they couldn't stop the sad slide offensively after getting to go get another QB and have another offseason then I'd be fine with washing my hands of them. And clearly I have, because they failed in spectacular fashion. The failures of this offense are on Pace's head - his refusal to add quality OL - OTs in the draft in particular - has damned the rungame and QB play. He has screwed the pooch with every QB move he has made of note (Glennon, Tru, Daniel, Foles) and he basically too Emery's strength and failures and flipped them (offense now being trash and a good defense). Simply put, the team isn't competitive with any regularity unless we are facing bottom feeders, after the first 3 years that became unacceptable. Being a laughing stock after 6 years is unacceptable. This isn't GB losing Rodgers or NE losing Brady, this is just average to below average players missing for us. The ceiling of the entire offense is low already even when healthy, and Pace and Nagy don't inspire any faith in me to be able to change it. The bar can't be set for constant Super Bowl or bust, but it has to be set for higher than mediocrity. Bears are barely even hitting mediocre again this year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAF-N72EX Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 @Sugashane There's alot to digest here that I really wanted to get into to and I've been trying to keep my responses short due to time constraints (I'm working) so I'll address it tomorrow if I get a chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nads786 Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 I would add that Pace also made a really bad decision to spend money on the defense. In a league shifting to offense he is trying to turn back the clock. It’s like Ignoring three point shooters in the modern nba for classic centers. Good strategy in 1998 not great now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beardown3231 Posted November 30, 2020 Author Share Posted November 30, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Nads786 said: I would add that Pace also made a really bad decision to spend money on the defense. In a league shifting to offense he is trying to turn back the clock. It’s like Ignoring three point shooters in the modern nba for classic centers. Good strategy in 1998 not great now. Another great Bears tradition. Talk about how historical your franchise is despite 1 Super Bowl and consistently having dogs*** offenses. Maybe that's what George and Ted look for. "Oh, you want to build a great offense? Uhh... errr... ok we're going to go in another direction. This dumb franchise is all about linebackers! How dare you!" Edited November 30, 2020 by beardown3231 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
41st ward Chicagoian Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 Listening to 670 the score. It’s brutal. The bears need to clean house Nagy,Pace, Phillips need to go Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abstract_thought Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 If the main argument for keeping Pace rests on comparing him to other GMs around the league, then there's no point in keeping him. We're not trying to be like the rest of the league. We're trying to be better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigbear72 Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 Is it me, or does Nagy give the exact press conferences comments every week? It literally sounds like the same press conference replayed over and over again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beardown3231 Posted November 30, 2020 Author Share Posted November 30, 2020 11 minutes ago, Bigbear72 said: Is it me, or does Nagy give the exact press conferences comments every week? It literally sounds like the same press conference replayed over and over again. That's how Trestman got at the end of his tenure- completely defeated, completely bewildered, knows the end is near Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G08 Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 41 minutes ago, beardown3231 said: That's how Trestman got at the end of his tenure- completely defeated, completely bewildered, knows the end is near He doesn't have any answers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
41st ward Chicagoian Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 I am on full on rooting for tanking the rest of the season. Bears pick 14th as on today with games against the Lions on sunday and the Vikings coming up. The bears need to lose those games and I am confident they will. I am hoping we get the 9th pick in the draft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topwop1 Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 15 minutes ago, 41st ward Chicagoian said: I am on full on rooting for tanking the rest of the season. Bears pick 14th as on today with games against the Lions on sunday and the Vikings coming up. The bears need to lose those games and I am confident they will. I am hoping we get the 9th pick in the draft. Sadly they will win one of those games I'm sure....just to mess up their draft position and make Nagy look like he's not incompetent for one more week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
41st ward Chicagoian Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 Just now, topwop1 said: Sadly they will win one of those games I'm sure....just to mess up their draft position and make Nagy look like he's not incompetent for one more week. The only game the bears win for the rest of the season is against the jags week 16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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