Fire Pace and Nagy

[topwop1]

Can't wait for week 14 when Bears host the Texans.

I hope Watson has a field day against us just to put another nail in this regimes coffin...if it hasn't already been done so based on yesterday's game.

McCaskey is a effing wussy..ya I said it. Terrified to make an in season change when it's clearly the way to go...since all the other teams are doing it and getting a head start on their GM and coaching searches. 

This organization has no balls

[WindyCity]

This organization sucks. We are the Jaguars, but with more history and worse QB play.

[Heinz D.]

3 hours ago, topwop1 said:

McCaskey is a effing wussy..ya I said it. Terrified to make an in season change when it's clearly the way to go...since all the other teams are doing it and getting a head start on their GM and coaching searches. 

The weird part about all that is you'd think they would want to see how the team responds to Pagano being the HC. Right? 😕

[WindyCity]

This situation is such a mess. Our cap is a cluster F and we need to replace most of the offense.

[Epyon]

1 hour ago, WindyCity said:

This situation is such a mess. Our cap is a cluster F and we need to replace most of the offense.

If not the entire offense....

Robinson- either walking in FA or getting tagged/traded, imo.

Monty/Cohen- Both have shown flashes, harder to evaluate with how horrid the OLine is, but imo neither have shown themselves to be truly "special" or irreplaceable players.  I don't at all expect us to go RB in the draft, but I'd cut Monty tommorrow for Etienne from Clemson, for example, and a number of other RBs in the past few drafts... JAG is a term that applies well.

Mooney has flashed, but is more potential right now than product.

Kmet hasn't even done that much

That leaves like..... Whitehair and Daniels.... I'd argue both are JAG and entirely replaceable, too.

[abstract_thought]

2 hours ago, Epyon said:

If not the entire offense....

Robinson- either walking in FA or getting tagged/traded, imo.

Monty/Cohen- Both have shown flashes, harder to evaluate with how horrid the OLine is, but imo neither have shown themselves to be truly "special" or irreplaceable players.  I don't at all expect us to go RB in the draft, but I'd cut Monty tommorrow for Etienne from Clemson, for example, and a number of other RBs in the past few drafts... JAG is a term that applies well.

Mooney has flashed, but is more potential right now than product.

Kmet hasn't even done that much

That leaves like..... Whitehair and Daniels.... I'd argue both are JAG and entirely replaceable, too.

At least we already have our bridge QB!

[JAF-N72EX]

22 hours ago, Sugashane said:

So here is the general idea for me, assuming your team isn't going ape**** like with Emery I tend to believe GMs should get 5 years, and get to pick their HC. That can be year 1, 2, or 3 that they get their guy but I want to let the GM put the team together in their image. Pace got 3 years with Fox to clean house, then got to pick his guy. This is where it really starts to count to me, because he has rebuilt the team, got rid of old players and bad deals, etc. Now he has his HC and should be able to build an identity on both side of the ball. The coach should have a scheme and a type of player needed for it, and the GM should be able to find players that fit that profile or the ability to fit the needs for role players (power RB, blocking TEs, 2-down LBs, etc). Defensively Pace has done well, he has misses and hits but the defense is the only reason we aren't a 2 win team IMO. It is the only reason Nagy isn't a sub .500 HC right now too.

This makes perfect sense and I agree with these opinions along with this train of thought. 100%.  Ideally, I would want the Bears to hire a GM, HC, QB and all other staff at the same time and if the team is still an average group after 4 years then fire them all and start from scratch. That's how teams are built now in the modern era. (Pace, Mitch, Nagy--more on this later).

22 hours ago, Sugashane said:

I don't see what Pace has done to warrant a second swing at drafting a QB high 

Pace has built a good defense and a good special teams. Again, every team has flaws.  

We have a bad offense, good defense and good special teams. In comparison to the rest of the leagues to teams.....

PIT - Shoddy offense, good defense, good special teams.
BAL - Bad offense, good defense, good special teams.
KC - Good offense, average defense, bad special teams.
SEA - Good offense, bad defense, good special teams.
GB - Good offense, bad defense, bad special teams.
IND - Shoddy offense, good defense, good special teams

 

What happens if we get a new GM who drafts a good QB  but doesn't surround him with anything else because they can't spot talent in the draft/FA to save their life?  You end up like Philip Rivers, Matt Ryan, Aaron Rodgers and every other QB who's talent has been wasted over the years. All 3 of them should have a SB win by now but they don't because the FO has ignored the defense and other key areas. Especially Rodgers. One of the best QB's of all time. he should have 2-3 rings by now but he doesn't because the FO has ignored the defense.  Packers, a perennial winning team; Good offense, bad defense. The Bears; good defense, bad offense. And 

See how this works?  Building a team is not easy and winning in the NFL is hard because it's designed that way. 

Pace drafting another QB is a legit concern ---he's def too hands-on with the QB decisions when he shouldn't be--but his drafts in general have been pretty good in comparison to the rest of the league and I've pointed this out before. This is one thing that most Bears fans seem to be missing, for whatever reason. I'm willing to let Pace give Nagy a chance to pick his own QB, OR choose another HC and let them choose their own. We haven't seen that yet where Pace hires a new HC at the same time that we're looking for a QB. (Truth be told, I think we're going with a veteran as a starter next year with Foles as a backup) 

23 hours ago, Sugashane said:

or picking a new HC since he failed at both. Nagy to me might be an OC who could do really well with a young offensive HC (who calls the plays, not Nagy) because he has the apparent ability to get his players' trust. That is an asset that doesn't show on a boxscore, and one that young new HCs could use. But he has not developed an offensive identity and Pace has been unable to get decent talent on that side of the ball. I'm not sure we have anyone who has not regressed this year and certainly not from 2018 if they were on the team then too. (Maybe Montgomery hasn't regressed but remained limited due to run blocking?) To me that is on Pace and Nagy, Nagy's failures reflect on Pace. They have regressed the offense into an area of comical failure.

I don't think Nagy is a bad HC at all. He's not fit here anymore because of everything that has transpired (his fault or not) but he's not a bad coach by any means IMO.  I just think he bit off more than he could chew without realizing it when he initially took the HC/OC job and thought he could work with Mitch and this offense. I don't think he realized just how bad Mitch really was and has spent 3 years trying to adjust his play calling and gameday strategies in order to hide Mitch's and Foles deficiencies but you know what they say.....you can't always fix what is already broken.

I would have really liked to see how much different this team would've been had Nagy been the HC in 2017 and he was able to choose his own QB because Mitch's confidence already shot before Nagy even step foot in halas Hall and that was on Pace/Fox.  Pace/Fox should have rolled with the 20M long neck the entire year during Mitch's rookie season instead of throwing him into the fire with bums.... which is what ultimately killed his confidence right out the gate.

Remember Mitch in his first few rookie games when he wasn't afraid of anything and he played like it? I'm not talking about the outcome but just in general. He would extend plays and wasn't afraid to take a hit and would ALWAYS try to hit the WR past the sticks on damn near every 3rd down....regardless if it was 3rd and 20...he would try to do everything he could give the receiver a chance JUST to get a first down instead of checking it down like most QBs do. That's heart and that's playing to win. But what happened to that mitch because we haven't seen it since? Fox is what happened. Now, I'm not saying Mitch would've been good had Fox kept him on the bench but he certainly would've had a better chance 

Now, combine all of this with Nagy's inexperience as a HC/OC before Chicago and it was a disaster in the making before it had even began. 

I really believe Nagy could have success in this league. He's not a bad coach. Heck, even as much as I have been giving him crap for the last 3 years as a play caller, I don't really think he's as bad as he has shown here in Chicago and the film shows it. He has designed several plays where the skill players are wide open but unfortunately for him he hasn't had a QB who can see them, or throw the ball accurately enough to give them a chance. He's also designed some good run plays that should've gone for long yardage only to be let down because of either a) RB missed the wrong hole. B) Missed block. C) QB didn't give them a chance on a RPO when they should have.

On 11/30/2020 at 2:42 AM, Sugashane said:

The failures of this offense are on Pace's head - his refusal to add quality OL - OTs in the draft in particular -

Going back to my point, were you ok with the Mack trade? Because you can't fix everything in the draft when you don't have the capital to do it with. If Pace had drafted OL in the 2nd instead of Kmet, fans would be bitching about Pace ignoring the TE position (the biggest hole in the offense btw). If Pace had drafted OL in the 2nd instead a JJ, fans would be bitching about Pace ignoring the CB position after watching the defense getting burned. 

Can't have your cake and eat it too. And let's stop with the assumption that drafts cure everything too. 

[JAF-N72EX]

17 hours ago, abstract_thought said:

If the main argument for keeping Pace rests on comparing him to other GMs around the league, then there's no point in keeping him.

We're not trying to be like the rest of the league. We're trying to be better.

This doesn't make any sense at all. A persons work is always judged and based on his peers. 

[Pool]

11 hours ago, Epyon said:

If not the entire offense....

Robinson- either walking in FA or getting tagged/traded, imo.

Monty/Cohen- Both have shown flashes, harder to evaluate with how horrid the OLine is, but imo neither have shown themselves to be truly "special" or irreplaceable players.  I don't at all expect us to go RB in the draft, but I'd cut Monty tommorrow for Etienne from Clemson, for example, and a number of other RBs in the past few drafts... JAG is a term that applies well.

Mooney has flashed, but is more potential right now than product.

Kmet hasn't even done that much

That leaves like..... Whitehair and Daniels.... I'd argue both are JAG and entirely replaceable, too.

Monty would be just fine behind a decent O-line. Our bigger problem is not having a capable backup RB. 

Mooney has balled out as a rookie. If we had a decent QB he would be getting a lot more hype. He's actually one of the few bright spots on the offense.

Kmet hasn't done much because they don't throw him the football.

You can't realistically replace 13 players on offense in one offseason/draft. Whitehair, Daniels, Monty, Mooney, and Kmet are definitely worth holding.

 

[abstract_thought]

8 hours ago, JAF-N72EX said:

This doesn't make any sense at all. A persons work is always judged and based on his peers. 

Of course, but comparing is not the same as judging. And evaluating a GM's work involves finding differences that set him apart from his peers, not just using his peers' failures as an excuse. Perhaps lost here is that likening Pace's work to that of most GMs means he doesn't stand out as being better. And if that's the case, why should he be kept?

Thankfully we have a way to judge a GM's work relative to his peers - we can look at his team's won/loss record. Pace is 39-52 over his tenure, with 1 playoff appearance and 0 playoff wins in 5 seasons.

[Pool]

https://dabearsblog.com/2020/atm-bears-wolf-could-be-perfect-pairing#more-27266

Eliot Wolf?

[WindyCity]

12 minutes ago, Pool said:

https://dabearsblog.com/2020/atm-bears-wolf-could-be-perfect-pairing#more-27266

Eliot Wolf?

Sure. I have no idea who would make a good GM, but his resume looks good.

Most importantly...he is not Ryan Pace.

[topwop1]

38 minutes ago, Pool said:

https://dabearsblog.com/2020/atm-bears-wolf-could-be-perfect-pairing#more-27266

Eliot Wolf?

Yes at least bring him in for an interview.  This guy is dying to prove himself and is surely mad he was passed up for the Packers job.  Could be the perfect guy IMO

[Heinz D.]

14 hours ago, JAF-N72EX said:

If Pace had drafted OL in the 2nd instead of Kmet, fans would be bitching about Pace ignoring the TE position (the biggest hole in the offense btw). If Pace had drafted OL in the 2nd instead a JJ, fans would be bitching about Pace ignoring the CB position after watching the defense getting burned. 

Can't have your cake and eat it too. And let's stop with the assumption that drafts cure everything too. 

No one, around here anyway, would have been bitching about Pace ignoring the TE position, as most of us understood what the big needs were on this team. And it would have been incredibly easy to got a decent starting CB opposite Fuller, and have the defense still function. Now, do I like Johnson? Sure! We didn't NEED him though. Pace botched the draft, dude. Neither of those second round picks are paying big dividends for the team this season, which is exactly what the Bears needed. Pace probably would have saved his job had he drafted intelligently. He blew the draft, and I said so at the time. 

[WindyCity]

People would ***** less about Pace if he picked good players and didn’t over our aging bums who don’t perform.

The Kmet pick is fine. He isn’t the reason the OL sucks. The fact we paid Graham 9 million guaranteed to be an inefficient blocking pylon and didn’t invest in the OL is a bigger issue.