Fire Pace and Nagy

[WindyCity]

The problem is what Pace does well is not really super valuable in the NFL right now.

What he does poorly... is super valuable.

[abstract_thought]

An interesting read, with a survey of 30 agents who discuss the best/worst/most interesting GMs:

https://theathletic.com/1919910/2020/07/13/nfl-agent-survey-30-reps-rap-on-transactions-front-offices-and-current-events/?source=emp-shared-article

TL;DR - Ryan Pace isn't mentioned at all

[topwop1]

1 hour ago, GBHalas said:

That's may be true with Kelly and Fangio, BUT again bad teams don't get their coordinators promoted and that doesn't explain Carolina, and Fangio didn't get the Denver job until the Bears were successful.  No one called when they were 6-10.  Also that doesn't explain Douglas getting the Jets job.  If you bring up Gates, then why does Douglas still have the gig since Gates was fired?  Bad head coaches get fired and their coodinators rehired in the same positions or have to take a step down.  Sorry I don't think your reasons hold merit.

Douglas was hired after Gase (not Gates...if that's who you are referring to?) was hired as HC so he gets a pass for that considering he has yet to hire his own HC as Jets GM.  He has also worked for some good organizations in the past such as the Ravens and Eagles so it's not like he just got his experience here with the Bears under Pace.

Same goes for Champ Kelly, he worked for many years in the Broncos front office before getting his gig with the Bears, and came over with Fox when he got hired as HC.

Credit Pace for hiring these guys but I don't think it's a case of them developing under his leadership.  They already had good reps before coming to work here.

Also just because guys working under Pace are being looked at for promotions doesn't necessarily mean that Pace shouldn't be viewed as a guy who deserves to be on the hot seat.  Those two things are not mutually exclusive.

[GBHalas]

1 hour ago, WindyCity said:

That isn't true at all.

Coordinators off bad teams are interviewing right now. Joe Brady [Carolina], Robert Saleh [SF].

Based on your arguments about good organization's, which you guys included the 49ers and the Saints (where Brady is really tied to) you can't say they're on bad teams.  They just had bad records this year

[WindyCity]

1 minute ago, GBHalas said:

Based on your arguments about good organization's, which you guys included the 49ers and the Saints (where Brady is really tied to) you can't say they're on bad teams.  They just had bad records this year

The Bears are not a bad team. They are a mediocre team.

[GBHalas]

52 minutes ago, topwop1 said:

Douglas was hired after Gase (not Gates...if that's who you are referring to?) was hired as HC so he gets a pass for that considering he has yet to hire his own HC as Jets GM.  He has also worked for some good organizations in the past such as the Ravens and Eagles so it's not like he just got his experience here with the Bears under Pace.

Same goes for Champ Kelly, he worked for many years in the Broncos front office before getting his gig with the Bears, and came over with Fox when he got hired as HC.

Credit Pace for hiring these guys but I don't think it's a case of them developing under his leadership.  They already had good reps before coming to work here.

Also just because guys working under Pace are being looked at for promotions doesn't necessarily mean that Pace shouldn't be viewed as a guy who deserves to be on the hot seat.  Those two things are not mutually exclusive.

Sorry meant Gase. Forgot the guy's name. I don't know if it's mutually exclusive but it's definitely impressive that is the case. I don't recall any Bear executive being hired away based on the resume

[GBHalas]

3 minutes ago, WindyCity said:

The Bears are not a bad team. They are a mediocre team.

I guess my point is before Pace got here they were a bad team, now they're a mediocre team. I don't want to argue the past but  we've been here before during Angelo's regime. They fired him and eventually Smith and became a bad team. What proof do we have that this scenario doesn't play out again? The only difference in this scenario is Pace might arguably be a better late round drafter than Angelo

[WindyCity]

1 minute ago, GBHalas said:

I guess my point is before Pace got here they were a bad team, now they're a mediocre team. I don't want to argue the past but  we've been here before during Angelo's regime. They fired him and eventually Smith and became a bad team. What proof do we have that this scenario doesn't play out again? The only difference in this scenario is Pace might arguably be a better late round drafter than Angelo

What do you get for being a mediocre team?

You are debating what is better a punch in the head or balls, neither is good.

[Heinz D.]

5 hours ago, dll2000 said:

It looks like OL was a lot of result of poor personnel choices of guys you already had on roster and scheme. Maybe that isn't entirely Pace's fault. 

Explain why it wouldn't be. 

Edited January 6, 2021 by Heinz D.

[WindyCity]

1 hour ago, Heinz D. said:

Explain why it wouldn't be. 

I agree Pace paid all these guys.

Nagy has screwed the OL repeatedly, because he treats them like they don’t suck. When he treats them like he sucks they are okay.

[topwop1]

4 hours ago, WindyCity said:

What do you get for being a mediocre team?

You are debating what is better a punch in the head or balls, neither is good.

I guess the only thing you can hope for when being mediocre is limping into the playoffs like the Bears just did and going on a New York Giants/Baltimore Ravens esque run by getting lucky and winning a championship with an average to below average QB.

[WindyCity]

1 minute ago, topwop1 said:

I guess the only thing you can hope for when being mediocre is limping into the playoffs like the Bears just did and going on a New York Giants/Baltimore Ravens esque run by getting lucky and winning a championship with an average to below average QB.

Too bad our defense isn’t elite anymore and our QB is worse than Eli and Flacco.

We are treading water.

Mediocre GM = Mediocre Team= Treading Water

[MonserinNC]

9 hours ago, WindyCity said:

The problem is what Pace does well is not really super valuable in the NFL right now.

What he does poorly... is super valuable.

I don't even think it's this complex.......we all know the formula: Coach, QB, GM

He missed on the QB, then got his shot to get a QB off the street and he chose to trade for Foles

You just can't miss on QB like that

[JAF-N72EX]

16 hours ago, beardown3231 said:

I realize they're not in the playoffs, but their FO has had a lot more success drafting and/or putting out a good product on a consistent basis.

No they haven't. I would ask you to explain but I know how that usually goes.  "I said woof in a GDT or read it online".

 

[JAF-N72EX]

16 hours ago, abstract_thought said:

There's absolutely nothing wrong with it because they drafted a LEGITIMATE SUPERSTAR.

There is value in drafting a superstar. You're throwing that value out when you use the median. You're basically ignoring the Michael Thomas, Patrick Mahomes, Aaron Donald type picks. Those are the picks GMs should be praised for.

Drafting isn't simply about avoiding busts. If you drafted Nick Kwiatkowski with every pick, you wouldn't have a great team. There's huge value in the NFL in finding the superstar players.

Stop it. You're trying too hard here bud. 

I don't think you really understand how this works.  Either that or you are just refusing to admit that Pace is one of the best GMs in the league at drafting players and that you are cleary resorting to grasping at any line you can in order to refute it without realizing that eventually you're going to run out of rope. 

Nobody is being thrown out here.  They are just not being asked to carry an entire field of players and it helps to weed out the Winston's and Mariota's---hence the med avg per player.  Which is why I included it.  If you want averages I have already included those a few pages back and last year. 

FYI, KC is ranked #1 in the first round in Med CarAV  (46.5) and per player average (23.3) and the Rams are a clean #2 which clearly is NOT throwing out Mahomes or Donald.  The top-10 in order of player per med avgerage goes;  KC, LAR, SEA, DAL, CHI, IND, MIA, PHI, NYJ, DET. 

But it's also worth mentioning AGAIN (because it's all there in my inital post) that the lg avg # of players drafted in the 1st round from 2015-2019 is 5--which is why I included it in the first place-- and KC, LAR, SEA each had only drafted 2 players while MIA and NYJ drafted 5 players and DAL, CHI, IND, and PHI had each drafted 4 over this period of time.  So there's a higher chance of failure for those teams with the most darts at the board than those with only 2.  It's essentially saying "you only have 2 darts and so had you BETTER hit a bulleye or it's going to look ugly". And the data/formula accounts for this and it just so happens that  KC and Rams hit a bullseye both times.  

Again, if you don't like it then do your own research and come up with your own way so I can pick it apart. .