Fire Pace and Nagy

[Heinz D.]

On 3/22/2021 at 3:53 PM, British said:

It's such a bad attempt to win now I'm wondering if actually Pace has been given assurances he can have another stab at a rebuild. Hence the 1 year deals they've signed.  And the lack of clarity about his contract length at the end of last season. 

If they trade Robinson then it feels odds on that Pace won't be going anywhere.

Somebody else brought this up recently...I believe it was @topwop1.

Sadly, I'm starting to think you guys might be right. Why did I hate last year's draft? Because it wasn't really focused on winning ANYTHING, right there and then. It was a "future" draft. If you examine all that under the lens of "Pace isn't going anywhere, anytime soon"...then it makes a lot more sense. And as you point out, it makes this off-season make a lot more sense too, really. 

Which means they'll probably trade Mack for a bag of cheese puffs as soon as it is economically feasible.

Sigh. 

[BearsDen1-99]

Guys I found out why Ryan Pace sucks so bad at football decisions, It's because he spends most his time cooking and baking!!

[Heinz D.]

27 minutes ago, BearsDen1-99 said:

Guys I found out why Ryan Pace sucks so bad at football decisions, It's because he spends most his time cooking and baking!!

That's awesome. 

[JAF-N72EX]

On 3/22/2021 at 4:53 PM, British said:

It's such a bad attempt to win now I'm wondering if actually Pace has been given assurances he can have another stab at a rebuild.

Or MCaskey has put on him a tight leash (which wouldn't make any sense but would be on par with the usual McCaskey workings). 

Alot of people were saying how 'desperate' Pace was going to be and they have been wrong so far and maybe that's why.  We'll see..

[abstract_thought]

5 hours ago, JAF-N72EX said:

Or MCaskey has put on him a tight leash (which wouldn't make any sense but would be on par with the usual McCaskey workings). 

Alot of people were saying how 'desperate' Pace was going to be and they have been wrong so far and maybe that's why.  We'll see..

This is entirely possible. Still, I think the most likely scenario is that Pace intended on making a huge trade for Wilson and based his offseason plan on that move. What we’re seeing is the back-up plan.

Once the cap was set, I don’t think there was ever a way to re-tool the team and remain competitive. Even the Wilson trade would have involved more of a multi-year effort to build around him.

[AZBearsFan]

15 hours ago, JAF-N72EX said:

Alot of people were saying how 'desperate' Pace was going to be and they have been wrong so far and maybe that's why.  We'll see..

I think he’s desperate for a QB. Throwing $10M guaranteed at Dalton to raise our QB floor suggests that. The reported offer for Wilson certainly suggests that too. With the Watson situation being entirely hands off right now while everything plays out there the next shot at a big move for a QB really is the draft. 

[JAF-N72EX]

4 hours ago, AZBearsFan said:

I think he’s desperate for a QB. Throwing $10M guaranteed at Dalton to raise our QB floor suggests that. The reported offer for Wilson certainly suggests that too. With the Watson situation being entirely hands off right now while everything plays out there the next shot at a big move for a QB really is the draft. 

Pace may be desperate for a QB, but he hasn't made any desperation moves so far.

The Foles signing was more of a desperation move than Dalton is. Paying a backup QB, backup money is not a desperation move. 

This would be like saying Gruden paying Mariota 10M, Berry paying Keenum 14M, or Mayhew paying Fitz 10M were all desperate moves.

 

[JAF-N72EX]

13 hours ago, abstract_thought said:

This is entirely possible. Still, I think the most likely scenario is that Pace intended on making a huge trade for Wilson and based his offseason plan on that move. What we’re seeing is the back-up plan.

Once the cap was set, I don’t think there was ever a way to re-tool the team and remain competitive. Even the Wilson trade would have involved more of a multi-year effort to build around him.

I also wonder if he thought there was going to be a bigger free agency market given the cap situation.  It seems like alot of people thought teams were going to release vets left and right and that didn't happen at all.

[Sugashane]

1 hour ago, JAF-N72EX said:

This would be like saying Gruden paying Mariota 10M, Berry paying Keenum 14M, or Mayhew paying Fitz 10M were all desperate moves.

 

I dont think desperate is the right word but still seems like crap contracts. They aren't making starter money but idk if their teams can get an even value for those contracts. I'd rather have put that kind of money on talented players rather than poor starters/decent back ups. 

 

I'd have rather rolled with Foles and 1 or 2 rookies than pay any of them 8 digits. I dont feel like the value is there unless you're TB, KC, etc that has a ton of weapons and you just need a good back up to ensure a level of production if the starter goes down for a period. Hell Tru for $5 mil would have been better, though I'd have understood if he refused to come back. 

 

Regardless its Pace's show. I hope he's making underrated moves and that I have to eat crow come Dec. 

[JAF-N72EX]

4 minutes ago, Sugashane said:

I dont think desperate is the right word but still seems like crap contracts. They aren't making starter money but idk if their teams can get an even value for those contracts. I'd rather have put that kind of money on talented players rather than poor starters/decent back ups. 

 

I'd have rather rolled with Foles and 1 or 2 rookies than pay any of them 8 digits. I dont feel like the value is there unless you're TB, KC, etc that has a ton of weapons and you just need a good back up to ensure a level of production if the starter goes down for a period. Hell Tru for $5 mil would have been better, though I'd have understood if he refused to come back.

They set the market though. That's why I mentioned them.

Unfortunately, 10M for a decent proven backup QB is the going rate and that rate is set by the market itself.  Not by Pace or any anyone else.  QBs have always been expensive and overpriced, and the price went up exponentially when Mahomes got a ~200 million dollar deal. I mean....Dak Prescott just got a 4/170M deal lol!  Dak freaking Prescott!

Besides, think about it? In your opinion, among all the available non-starter QBs right now, how many of them would you consider to be on the high/decent end?  IMO, the list is very short and there's a deep drop-off after that.  This also drives the market.

 

1 hour ago, Sugashane said:

Hell Tru for $5 mil would have been better,

I agree, Mitch as a backup for 5M would've been better based on skill set alone.  But we know that wasn't ever going to happen realistically. Mitch was done with Nagy and the feeling was mutual.

That said, let's be clear on the Dalton's contract here. The Bears gave Dalton 7.5M guaranteed.....not 10M like AZ said. 

The Bears may OWE Dalton 10.5M (3.3M if he plays this season) but only 5.5M of that is counting against our cap this year.   Next season, the cap rises again with the 17 game season and additional playoff games, and then we can either keep him as a backup for 5M or we can cut him and lose nothing but a measly 5M in dead-cap. We lost 4M in dead-cap this year for Massie.

So essentially, it's either a young, broken Mitch for 5M. Or a broken vet Dalton for 5.5M.  We're splitting hairs at this point lol.

[AZBearsFan]

32 minutes ago, JAF-N72EX said:

That said, let's be clear on the Dalton's contract here. The Bears gave Dalton 7.5M guaranteed.....not 10M like AZ said. 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/chicago-bears/andy-dalton-7750/

Spotrac has it that his 2021 base salary is also guaranteed and that $10M was guaranteed at signing. OTC doesn’t. They’re the two most reputable salary databases out there. Not sure which is right or wrong in this instance. 

3 hours ago, JAF-N72EX said:

Pace may be desperate for a QB, but he hasn't made any desperation moves so far.

The Foles signing was more of a desperation move than Dalton is. Paying a backup QB, backup money is not a desperation move. 

This would be like saying Gruden paying Mariota 10M, Berry paying Keenum 14M, or Mayhew paying Fitz 10M were all desperate moves.

They paid Dalton twice what any backup got this offseason AND had to promise him the starting gig to be able to do so. All to bring in a guy who is basically Nick Foles with red hair and without the Super Bowl on his resume. Not the most desperate move out there, but pretty desperate to me. 

[JAF-N72EX]

26 minutes ago, AZBearsFan said:

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/chicago-bears/andy-dalton-7750/

Spotrac has it that his 2021 base salary is also guaranteed and that $10M was guaranteed at signing. OTC doesn’t. They’re the two most reputable salary databases out there. Not sure which is right or wrong in this instance. 

Originally, it was a 1yr 10M deal. But Pace placed a 2-year void on the contract to save space at the expense of an additional 500k upfront cash that goes right into Dalton's pocket.

I will always go by what OTC says vs sportrac. But that's just my personal preference.

FWIW, it's been well known for a long time that sportrac often copies from OTC and also puts out contract info based on opinions rather than confirmed facts (which is why their data changes so often).  Whereas OTC will wait until they have actual confirmation before publishing data on the website since Jason fitzgerald (the owner) and his staff have alot inside connections, and they know that the site is used in a public fashion and wanna put out actual data vs guess work.  Which is why the website is so late to add players, especially now since the pandemic. (that and it's only one person on the team crunching the data who still has a life).

Fitzgerarld has mentioned this alot over the years. In fact, he briefly mentioned it again during one of his recent podcasts. I don't have a time stamp but it was either the March 13th or 20th. It was very recent. He does alot of questionnaires from fans at the end of these, and I believe it was there, but I'm not entirely sure.

https://overthecap.com/?s=podcast

But anyways, it sites here; QB Andy Dalton signed a one year, $10.5 million contract with the Bears. Dalton received a $7.5 million signing bonus.

His 3M base is not guaranteed. Only the 7.5M SB is.  If he's an active player on the team in 2021 then the 3M is also GTD. 

Lol, I was under the impression that you knew this and that you were just assuming he was going to play out the season anyways, which I agree with it.  Dalton's not going anywhere, so that 3M is practically added to the 7.5M guaranteed anyhow which makes it a 2/yr 10.5M deal.  His cap hits are 5M this year and 5.5 next year.

 

1 hour ago, AZBearsFan said:

They paid Dalton twice what any backup got this offseason

Say that to the Redskins.  Washington dragged 40-year-old Fitz out of bed when he was considering retiring and paid him the same amount as Dalton--1yr/10M.  The only difference is that Pace made sure Dalton's cap hit was 5M this year instead of the full 10M.

[abstract_thought]

10 hours ago, JAF-N72EX said:

I also wonder if he thought there was going to be a bigger free agency market given the cap situation.  It seems like alot of people thought teams were going to release vets left and right and that didn't happen at all.

The cuts may be coming after the June 1st deadline.

Players' willingness to sign short-term deals also backfired on Pace. It took pressure off Robinson to sign a multi-year extension. He'll happily play out his 1 year on the tag and then move on. And the Bears don't get any short-term savings out of the deal.

[AZBearsFan]

18 hours ago, JAF-N72EX said:

Originally, it was a 1yr 10M deal. But Pace placed a 2-year void on the contract to save space at the expense of an additional 500k upfront cash that goes right into Dalton's pocket.

I will always go by what OTC says vs sportrac. But that's just my personal preference.

FWIW, it's been well known for a long time that sportrac often copies from OTC and also puts out contract info based on opinions rather than confirmed facts (which is why their data changes so often).  Whereas OTC will wait until they have actual confirmation before publishing data on the website since Jason fitzgerald (the owner) and his staff have alot inside connections, and they know that the site is used in a public fashion and wanna put out actual data vs guess work.  Which is why the website is so late to add players, especially now since the pandemic. (that and it's only one person on the team crunching the data who still has a life).

Fitzgerarld has mentioned this alot over the years. In fact, he briefly mentioned it again during one of his recent podcasts. I don't have a time stamp but it was either the March 13th or 20th. It was very recent. He does alot of questionnaires from fans at the end of these, and I believe it was there, but I'm not entirely sure.

https://overthecap.com/?s=podcast

But anyways, it sites here; QB Andy Dalton signed a one year, $10.5 million contract with the Bears. Dalton received a $7.5 million signing bonus.

His 3M base is not guaranteed. Only the 7.5M SB is.  If he's an active player on the team in 2021 then the 3M is also GTD. 

Lol, I was under the impression that you knew this and that you were just assuming he was going to play out the season anyways, which I agree with it.  Dalton's not going anywhere, so that 3M is practically added to the 7.5M guaranteed anyhow which makes it a 2/yr 10.5M deal.  His cap hits are 5M this year and 5.5 next year.

 

Say that to the Redskins.  Washington dragged 40-year-old Fitz out of bed when he was considering retiring and paid him the same amount as Dalton--1yr/10M.  The only difference is that Pace made sure Dalton's cap hit was 5M this year instead of the full 10M.

Forgot about Fitz, though for what it’s worth I think they signed Fitz to start too which makes neither his or Dalton’s deal backup deals. 

[soulman]

Since the thread topic is "Fire Pace" I'll limit my comment to that.

They like him.  That's one reason they haven't and may not any time soon.  But the other reason is more important.

Until the McCaskey's are willing to move Ted Phillips to the dust bin of retirement (they will never fire him) who can they get to replace Pace?  I'm dead certain he wasn't their first choice when they hired him but better talent like Eric DeCosta wouldn't even interview.  He probably wouldn't even take their calls.

Going back prior to Pace, who did they hire?  Phil Emery a glorified scout.  Jerry Angelo?  Pretty much the same.  Since the '70s and '80s the Bears have not had a top GM with significant previous NFL experience building winners.  None.

The Bears may be an NFL legacy franchise but this is the McCaskey Bears run by a former bean counter who also had no prior experience as CEO of an NFL franchise and owners who are also lacking in football savvy.

The McCaskey's will never sell the team which leaves only the option of convincing Teddy Bears to retire and I don't see that on the horizon either.  So IMHO they're somewhat stuck with Pace or another like him for as long as they refuse to give over control of running the team to someone qualified to do it as GSH finally did when he hired Jim Finks.

This is reality as I see it.