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I don’t blame Pace for missing on MT, 4/5ths of league would have made same mistake Including, I believe, Andy Reid who loved Mahomes, but I think he liked MT better based on something Nagy said once.

I do blame him for Glennon and development of Trubisky or failure thereof.   Taking him in lame duck year is a long time recipe for failure.

I blame him for failing to produce a competent O line and I blame him for subpar TEs.  Even if Burton was healthy he wasn’t that good.  Just adequate.

And that is problem of offense in a nutshell.   Bad O line play most games and bad TE play most games (over last 3 years).  People love to put all blame on QB, but when O line gets dominated, as it did in Indy game and many games last year, your offense is going to be bad.   

I credit him for defensive talent overall.   But the subpar offense will be his undoing.  Especially this season when so many teams are lighting up scoreboards.   

 

Edited by dll2000
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31 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

I don’t blame Pace for missing on MT, 4/5ths of league would have made same mistake

That's the point though - we want a GM in the 1/5th.

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1 hour ago, dll2000 said:

It seems to be there are two ways to win big in NFL or most professional sports.

1) You create a true program which is very difficult at professional level, but Patriots have done it and Pittsburgh has done it.  

Unfortunately most great programs will fall apart with death or retirement of cornerstone.   I think the Patriots cornerstone is Belichick and will crash shortly after he retires or dies.  

Pittsburgh seems to have set a whole organizational system in place so they can survive the leaving of any one person and maintain consistent success over long term.

2) You are bad for awhile, but you still draft well enough that you stockpile enough top end talent that you can win and then you find a good enough coach that can take them to a title.

Worst way is you keep plugging holes semi-competently and keep a constant coach/GM carousel of every 4 years so that you are always a near .500 team and you stay that way in perpetuity.    

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe this is in part why Pace was hired.  There was a lot of talk that the Bears wanted to create a college type program and I recall it was stated in an article way back that Pace had that vision from the get go along with the re-development of the new Halas Hall facility, etc.

This is why I think he is pretty entrenched in his role as GM and will likely still be here for the foreseeable future regardless of what happens this season.

I'm not as convinced with Nagy though unless the offense starts to show some real signs of progress.  I get that the talent level on O might not be that great compared to other teams around the NFL, but Nagy has had 3 off seasons now to work with Pace to address the type of personnel he needs to run his "system".

If Nagy thought the OL sucked then why didn't he push for more investment there this past offseason?

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1 hour ago, dll2000 said:

I don’t blame Pace for missing on MT, 4/5ths of league would have made same mistake Including, I believe, Andy Reid who loved Mahomes, but I think he liked MT better based on something Nagy said once.

I do blame him for Glennon and development of Trubisky or failure thereof.   Taking him in lame duck year is a long time recipe for failure.

I blame him for failing to produce a competent O line and I blame him for subpar TEs.  Even if Burton was healthy he wasn’t that good.  Just adequate.

And that is problem of offense in a nutshell.   Bad O line play most games and bad TE play most games (over last 3 years).  People love to put all blame on QB, but when O line gets dominated, as it did in Indy game and many games last year, your offense is going to be bad.   

I credit him for defensive talent overall.   But the subpar offense will be his undoing.  Especially this season when so many teams are lighting up scoreboards.   

 

This is poetry.

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4 minutes ago, topwop1 said:

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe this is in part why Pace was hired.  There was a lot of talk that the Bears wanted to create a college type program and I recall it was stated in an article way back that Pace had that vision from the get go along with the re-development of the new Halas Hall facility, etc.

This is why I think he is pretty entrenched in his role as GM and will likely still be here for the foreseeable future regardless of what happens this season.

I'm not as convinced with Nagy though unless the offense starts to show some real signs of progress.  I get that the talent level on O might not be that great compared to other teams around the NFL, but Nagy has had 3 off seasons now to work with Pace to address the type of personnel he needs to run his "system".

If Nagy thought the OL sucked then why didn't he push for more investment there this past offseason?

They both might suck.

I think Nagy's issue may be hubris. He thinks the OL is good enough to be supported by his coaching. Well, his coaching stinks and now the OL gets exposed.

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5 minutes ago, WindyCity said:

This is poetry.

It's poetry minus the "subpar" part. It's not subpar. It's downright dogs***

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1 hour ago, beardown3231 said:

It's poetry minus the "subpar" part. It's not subpar. It's downright dogs***

True.   

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1 hour ago, WindyCity said:

They both might suck.

I think Nagy's issue may be hubris. He thinks the OL is good enough to be supported by his coaching. Well, his coaching stinks and now the OL gets exposed.

This is an interesting point, he approved the Mack trade even though it wouldn't help him, and he hasn't really pushed hard for any OL help.

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1 hour ago, Nads786 said:

This is an interesting point, he approved the Mack trade even though it wouldn't help him, and he hasn't really pushed hard for any OL help.

Weird that bringing in a coach who was unemployed in 2019 hasn't helped the situation. I'm stunned

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Just now, beardown3231 said:

Weird that bringing in a coach who was unemployed in 2019 hasn't helped the situation. I'm stunned

They are better. But talent wins. No amount of scheme was going to handle Deforest Buckner.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, beardown3231 said:

Weird that bringing in a coach who was unemployed in 2019 hasn't helped the situation. I'm stunned

Castillo is a well respected coach dude. Was part of Andy Reid's staff for over 10 years and John Harbaugh's as well for a few years in Baltimore.  Just because a guy takes a year off from coaching doesn't mean he's useless.

The o-line actually looked improved the first couple of games but let's face it, they aren't going to out talent good d-lines like the Colts or Bucs.  This is where scheming and play calling is critical.  Looking at Nagy....

Edited by topwop1

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12 minutes ago, topwop1 said:

Castillo is a well respected coach dude. Was part of Andy Reid's staff for over 10 years and John Harbaugh's as well for a few years in Baltimore.  Just because a guy takes a year off from coaching doesn't mean he's useless.

The o-line actually looked improved the first couple of games but let's face it, they aren't going to out talent good d-lines like the Colts or Bucs.  This is where scheming and play calling is critical.  Looking at Nagy....

Only so much you can do with the talent on the OL. It was nice they looked better against bad defenses, but if they cannot hold up against good DLs then we might as well try running on one foot, because that hamstrings us.

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15 minutes ago, topwop1 said:

Castillo is a well respected coach dude. Was part of Andy Reid's staff for over 10 years and John Harbaugh's as well for a few years in Baltimore.  Just because a guy takes a year off from coaching doesn't mean he's useless.

The o-line actually looked improved the first couple of games but let's face it, they aren't going to out talent good d-lines like the Colts or Bucs.  This is where scheming and play calling is critical.  Looking at Nagy....

I was partially being facetious. Look at what I originally quoted and what my response was. Nagy's exactly my point here. They did nothing to improve besides adding Ifedi and then we're surprised they still stink? Nagy had too much faith in these guys & Castillo

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11 hours ago, beardown3231 said:

I was partially being facetious. Look at what I originally quoted and what my response was. Nagy's exactly my point here. They did nothing to improve besides adding Ifedi and then we're surprised they still stink? Nagy had too much faith in these guys & Castillo

Yeah, it's just really weird. They wanna play games tight with a good run game... But have no lineman that are great run blockers. They have finesse guys that aren't great at pass blocking and on top of that, no good blocking TE (besides Harris). It doesn't make sense 

Look at the Raiders. They have a massive, mean OL to pound the rock with Jacobs. The Packers have all finesse guys to protect Rogers. The game starts up front and if they don't have an OL or a QB... What's the point of offense?

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17 hours ago, beardown3231 said:

Weird that bringing in a coach who was unemployed in 2019 hasn't helped the situation. I'm stunned

I think they are way better, but still bad.  They aren’t missing assignments left and right now.  

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