Week 5 GDT: Raiders (2-2) @ Chiefs (4-0)

[OG_C2X]

Hahahahah @BayRaider trying to say he doesn't hate Carr. Lol GTFOH with that BS. 

 

[BayRaider]

7 minutes ago, OG_C2X said:

Hahahahah @BayRaider trying to say he doesn't hate Carr. Lol GTFOH with that BS. 

 

You can believe whatever you want and whatever helps you sleep at night. I’ve cheered for Carr every single game. I give praise and criticism when it’s due, to all 53 players, and Carr has deserved a lot of criticism the past three seasons of lackluster play. If I hated the guy I wouldn’t of called him a Top 12 QB after six games last season and really ecstatic on the forum, and then he massively folded in the final 10 games. If I hated Carr, I wouldn’t be praising him right now, and hoping he has a MVP season. I don’t hate anyone outside of Antonio Brown. You guys toss around a big word like hate like it’s candy on Halloween. I give praise when deserved, and give criticism when deserved. 
 

The fact is, you never criticize Carr, have constantly said he’s better than Patrick Mahomes, Lamar Jackson, etc, and a Top 3 QB. You’re right there with Frankie, except at least Frankie lays low when Carr isn’t doing well. Carr could be coming off a 3 INT game and you’ll be right there saying he’s a better QB than Mahomes. 

Edited October 12, 2020 by BayRaider

[MrOaktown_56]

2 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

You can believe whatever you want and whatever helps you sleep at night. I’ve cheered for Carr every single game. I give praise and criticism when it’s due, to all 53 players, and Carr has deserved a lot of criticism the past three seasons of lackluster play. If I hated the guy I wouldn’t of called him a Top 12 QB after six games last season and really ecstatic on the forum, and then he massively folded in the final 10 games. If I hated Carr, I wouldn’t be praising him right now, and hoping he has a MVP season. I don’t hate anyone outside of Antonio Brown. You guys toss around a big word like hate like it’s candy on Halloween. I give praise when deserved, and give criticism when deserved. 
 

The fact is, you never criticize Carr, have constantly said he’s better than Patrick Mahomes, Lamar Jackson, etc, and a Top 3 QB. You’re right there with Frankie, except at least Frankie lays low when Carr isn’t doing well. Carr could be coming off a 3 INT game and you’ll be right there saying he’s a better QB than Mahomes. 

I'll stay out of this debate as long as it stays within rules (which it has so far so carry on), but I would disagree that he "massively folded". I just think as he lost his receivers, he lost trust in his group and got more conservative. Which depending on your frame of reference can be a criticism.

I think he "folded" in the KC games to some extent last year. If you're gonna pull that card, those are the best 2 games to support that line of thinking.

[agarcia34]

Look at Morrow. Like your the spy what are u doing man. Worst spy attempt I ever seen. I think this could be the reason why we didn’t see him much in the 2h

Edited October 12, 2020 by agarcia34

[Frankie2Gunz]

1 minute ago, BayRaider said:

You can believe whatever you want and whatever helps you sleep at night. I’ve cheered for Carr every single game. I give praise and criticism when it’s due, to all 53 players, and Carr has deserved a lot of criticism the past three seasons of lackluster play. If I hated the guy I wouldn’t of called him a Top 12 QB after six games last season and really ecstatic on the forum, and then he massively folded in the final 10 games. If I hated Carr, I wouldn’t be praising him right now, and hoping he has a MVP season. I don’t hate anyone outside of Antonio Brown. You guys toss around a big word like hate like it’s candy on Halloween. I give praise when deserved, and give criticism when deserved. 
 

The fact is, you never criticize Care, have constantly said he’s better than Patrick Mahomes, Lamar Jackson, etc, and a Top 3 QB. You’re right there with Frankie, except at least Frankie lays low when Carr isn’t doing well. Carr could be coming off a 3 INT game and you’ll be right there saying he’s a better QB than Mahomes. 

I would be the first to criticize Carr when he makes mistakes or doesn't play well and you clearly have missed what I have been saying for the last number of years.  You obviously couldn't understand what Carr and Gruden were doing as you lack the ability to forward think.  That being said I don't Carr has played poorly over the last few seasons, he has played smart football given his supporting cast.  That is what you can not grasp as you grasp at straws cherry picking stats to help prove your incorrect narrative. 

You wanted him to take deep shots but who who and at what cost?  Interceptions strip sacks and risking injury on dumpster fire rosters.  You must not think he has learned anything from his brother.  His WR corp has been absolute trash, he was throwing to guys who are fringe NFL players for 3 years and you expect Carr to make them Jerry Rice.  It's totally flawed logic to expect that.  Like I have said numerous times Carr learned from his brothers mistakes and the team around him was not ready for him to lay it on the line.  

Can you imagine that Carr sits in the pocket and let's plays develop for Jordy Nelson and Ateman?  He would break his brothers sack record waiting for those bums to get open or break a limb getting crushed sitting in the pocket waiting for his bums to gain separation.  Carr has played the last three seasons very smartly and I fell like Gruden encouraged that type of play.  He know's what he has in Carr and does not want to risk serious injury to his franchise QB on dumpster fire rosters, hence all of the check downs and an emphasis on getting rid of the ball quickly.  

That is exactly what I have been saying was going on for years and am being proven correct once again.  You guys couldn't grasp that concept and wanted to lay the blame on Carr.  You've just been flat out wrong all along.

[NYRaider]

12 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

I would be the first to criticize Carr when he makes mistakes or doesn't play well and you clearly have missed what I have been saying for the last number of years.  You obviously couldn't understand what Carr and Gruden were doing as you lack the ability to forward think.  That being said I don't Carr has played poorly over the last few seasons, he has played smart football given his supporting cast.  That is what you can not grasp as you grasp at straws cherry picking stats to help prove your incorrect narrative. 

People also really don't understand that even the elite QB's make their living in the short/intermediate areas with the occasional explosive play. 

On throws 20+ yards down field this season 

Carr - 11/19 (57%), 4 TD, 1 INT

Allen - 10/15 (66%), 2 TD, 1 INT

Mahomes - 6/22 (27%), 3 TD, 1 INT

[Frankie2Gunz]

6 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

People also really don't understand that even the elite QB's make their living in the short/intermediate areas with the occasional explosive play. 

On throws 20+ yards down field this season 

Carr - 11/19 (57%), 4 TD, 1 INT

Allen - 10/15 (66%), 2 TD, 1 INT

Mahomes - 6/22 (27%), 3 TD, 1 INT

He has always had the arm and deep ball accuracy, he just never had the WR's to utilize these attributes.  People just assumed that Carr's arm strength had diminished or that his skills fell off a cliff at 28 years old.  They clearly didn't get it and were not looking at the big picture.

[MrOaktown_56]

We need Ruggs running this route. Very subtle fake to the outside by Agholor here to turn Mathieu.

Agholor is a great mentor for Ruggs. He is a veteran and a technician just like Emmanuel Sanders, who I've always admired. Him and Ruggs have similar body types but Ruggs is much faster and more of a leaper. But if Ruggs can take away Agholor's savvy and continue to develop as a route runner, he can ascend to the next level as a receiver.

[NYRaider]

4 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

He has always had the arm and deep ball accuracy, he just never had the WR's to utilize these attributes.  People just assumed that Carr's arm strength had diminished or that his skills fell off a cliff at 28 years old.  They clearly didn't get it and were not looking at the big picture.

Carr's top three receiving options over the years have included:

2014 - Jones | Holmes | Rivera 

2015 - Cooper | Crabtree | Roberts 

2016 - Cooper | Crabtree | Roberts 

2017 - Cook | Cooper | Crabtree

2018 - Cook | Nelson | Roberts 

2019 - Waller | Renfrow | Williams 

Even in his best years in 2015/2016 we didn't have a ton of speed to take chances down the field with. Crabtree was the definition of a possession WR and Cooper was more quick than fast and made his living beating guys using his shiftiness and route running to create seperation. In 15 & 16 (32 games) Cooper had 3 catches of 45+ yards and Henry Ruggs has 3 catches of 45+ yards in like 6 quarters of being 100% this season. 

[NYRaider]

8 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

We need Ruggs running this route. Very subtle fake to the outside by Agholor here to turn Mathieu.

Agholor is a great mentor for Ruggs. He is a veteran and a technician just like Emmanuel Sanders, who I've always admired. Him and Ruggs have similar body types but Ruggs is much faster and more of a leaper. But if Ruggs can take away Agholor's savvy and continue to develop as a route runner, he can ascend to the next level as a receiver.

Nelly has been the most pleasant surprise of the season so far. I wasn't a huge fan of the signing at the time but he has been great so far this year. I've been really surprised by his explosiveness as the Eagles really only ever used him on shorter routes. The last two seasons his average depth of target was 6.0 yards down field and his average depth of target this season is 13.2 yards down field. I'm still bummed they called back that 50 yard TD last week against the Bills as it would've given him 3 TD of 20+ yards on the season already. He only has 10 catches this year but 3 of them have gone for TD's and the other 7 have been first downs. 

[Jerry]

26 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

Nelly has been the most pleasant surprise of the season so far. I wasn't a huge fan of the signing at the time but he has been great so far this year. I've been really surprised by his explosiveness as the Eagles really only ever used him on shorter routes. The last two seasons his average depth of target was 6.0 yards down field and his average depth of target this season is 13.2 yards down field. I'm still bummed they called back that 50 yard TD last week against the Bills as it would've given him 3 TD of 20+ yards on the season already. He only has 10 catches this year but 3 of them have gone for TD's and the other 7 have been first downs. 

I seriously thought he was on the roster bubble lol. Shows what I know. Glad he's with us. I honestly think he's having a more positive impact than what Bryan Edwards would have if he was healthy. Crazy how good our WR depth is right now.

[FloydFan]

8 minutes ago, Jerry said:

I seriously thought he was on the roster bubble lol. Shows what I know. Glad he's with us. I honestly think he's having a more positive impact than what Bryan Edwards would have if he was healthy. Crazy how good our WR depth is right now.

I agree. I thought he'd be our 5 or 6 receiver but what he's doing is impressive to say the least. Edwards seems like the type of receiver that will take time to get up to speed due to his physical style and general physicality of the game, but the talent is obviously there and I'm excited to get him back. 

[NYRaider]

9 minutes ago, FloydFan said:

I agree. I thought he'd be our 5 or 6 receiver but what he's doing is impressive to say the least. Edwards seems like the type of receiver that will take time to get up to speed due to his physical style and general physicality of the game, but the talent is obviously there and I'm excited to get him back. 

I also don't think production will directly correlate with ability this season for guys like Edwards, Ruggs, and Moreau because we have so many mouths to feeds and they've all been banged up. 

[Jerry]

18 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

I also don't think production will directly correlate with ability this season for guys like Edwards, Ruggs, and Moreau because we have so many mouths to feeds and they've all been banged up. 

💯. We have so much talent. The analysts are going to have someone new to talk about every week. Even D. Booker at RB is being mentioned. Agholor is being brought up. Waller was a couple weeks back. Jacobs was talked about week one after he had a better game than McCaffrey. We just have so much depth its crazy. Good thing is Edwards will come back and so will Incognito. We are almost at the pinnacle of our powers!!!! AHHHH!!!

[Dessie]

3 hours ago, BayRaider said:

There is a lot of Super-Fans of Carr looking for massive justification over the past three years and venting in this thread. The fact is, they are still wrong for defending literally anything Carr does, and not criticizing him once in those three years. I call it how I see it, both ways, for all players. You can make excuses for all 32 QBs, even Mahomes. I can understand excuses for one season, if a QB is playing outside his norm, with injuries surrounding him, etc. But excuses for three years straight with zero criticisms is what many of these Super-Fans did. I will always give praise and criticism when warranted. Carr deserves massive praise this year and balling out. Let’s all enjoy the ride. And let’s hope he can do it all year, because I called him a Top 12 QB after six games last year and he completely imploded. I want to see a great 16 game season from Carr from start to finish. 

It was after 10 games that you called Carr a top 12 QB, then after the season said he was a bottom 10 QB, then he was a QB that any other QB would be an upgrade over. But you did think he was worth a 2nd round pick 🤷‍♂️