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clarkfn2284

Clarkfn's 2020 Game Reviews Week 4 vs Philadelphia

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Let the fire begin......

 

QB

Mullens was horrible. Lots of ridiculous talk about a QB controversy in San Francisco by idiotic people. One thing that has frustrated me with this fan base has been the unwillingness to acknowledge a good QB when they see one and appreciate him. Jimmy G is a more than a good QB. He wins. Tonight everyone got to see why Nick Mullens is exactly what many of us here know he is. A very good backup plan. These types of games will happen with all QBs, but Mullens never got it figured out tonight and it is in large part due to his own mistakes, the O line and a lack of a run game. His flaws were exposed. The misses to start the game were brutal and it only gets worse from there. The two interceptions are completely inexcusable in both instances. He throws a 50/50 ball in plus territory and because the throw is so bad turns it into a 0/100 ball. He stares down a stick route and gift wraps a pick 6 with the game on the line. I will give him the fact that he was hit 15 times in the game and we will definitely get to that, but it's hard to tell how much is on him for holding the ball. Either way Jimmy needs to come back. I hope we see him next week because I would like to see any rust shook off before the season deciding stretch starts. I thought Bethard came in and looked good, but it's easy to do so when the defense is giving you soft zones and the middle of the field. He is also a different QB then Mullens which plays a role in his effectiveness and possible lack of preparation by the defense. Granted, his ability to come in and be ready is commendable. I still believe Mullens is the #2 here and have seen enough of CJ to not want him in that role.

Grades: Mullens (D), Bethard (B)

RB

Just no get off from these guys. Jet is not a 3 down back, but I don't think anyone really thought he was. I know holes were limited, but he danced a lot behind the LOS. Sometimes you need to lower the pads and just get 3 like he did on the goal line. The offense seemed to lack creativity in the pass game to get the RBs involved. I know with Kittle back targets would lessen, but getting Jet in space is important. I also would have liked to see more of Wilson earlier in the game. In a game where holes are limited Wilson seems to be a better option between the tackles. Just a total lack of explosiveness from this group.

Grade: McKinnon (C), Wilson (C), Juice (C)

WR

There is some optimism with this group. Deebo looked really fast and had the explosiveness we have grown accustomed to seeing. I know he was on a snap count, but it would have been nice to see more from him. It always amazes me how Shanahan tends to go away from things like the reverses and screens to get Deebo the ball. Aiyuk is a freak athlete. It looks like he is going to be really special. An offense with Deebo, Aiyuk and Kittle along side Mostert could be dynamic and really allows the QB to get the ball to these guys near the LOS, limiting risk and allowing them to have space to create. Bourne made a really nice catch at the goal line and made a great attempt to get it. With any sort of QB effectiveness this could have been a massive game for the WR group. 

Grade: Deebo (B+), Aiyuk (A-), Bourne (B+), Taylor (INC), Pettis (INC), Sanu (INC)

TE

Kittle is the best TE in the game. Kelce isn't even close to as good as he is. He was the focal point, they knew it and they couldn't stop him. We are watching an extremely special player who is one of the few players in the game that can will his way to success. There really isn't more to say about how incredible he was and is.

Grade: Kittle (A+)

OL

I'm in a bad mood today because of this group. This group has 3 NFL starting caliber players. Left to right. Trent Williams was embarrassing last night. He looked uninspired. When they acquired him I was concerned with this aspect. I have seen him appear to quit on the field multiple times in Washington. Now, that could just be that situation, but it was a concern. Last night, he got his lunch money taken by Derek Barnett. Barnett is by no means worthy of the 14th overall pick he was taken at, but last night he made Williams look terrible. Williams was pushed around all night and quit on the play where Tomlinson appeared to knock the DE down. Just a piss poor effort from him last night. Tomlinson, all things considered was the best lineman last night. He has his flaws, but he is relatively consistent. He wont be great at anything , but he is reliable and was the least of concerns last night. Ben Garland has no business starting and I am starting to wonder if he should even be a back up at this point. I just will never understand any professional thinking it is okay to take a play off, especially when you are a fringe type player like Garland against a guy like Fletcher Cox. The swiping of the hands and the lack of overall effort is inexcusable. Dan Brusnkill was really bad. The thing with Brunskill is that he isn't a guard. He was a converted TE that was a solid option at the T spot because he is athletic. While the athleticism will help with pulling from the G position, when he is asked to stand in and push people around he simply can't. He was driven back 3 yards almost every pass play. He missed the blitz pickup on the S after releasing the LB resulting in a sack. If you are going to let one blitzer go for the RB to pickup, you have to get the other one. Mike McGlinchey has this moment every year. He wasn't terrible until late, but this is becoming a routine for him. He just has these stretches of really bad blocking in the pass game. The final drive he became a turn style. I get that the end knows its a pass, but he has to hold up. He will never be what he was drafted to be and he will never be anything more then a decent option. The IOL needs severe help. I don't know where that comes from, but it needs to be addressed because Aaron Donald is coming two times and he is going to destroy this group.

Grade: Williams (D-), Tomlinson (C+), Garland (D), Brunskill (D-), McG (D)

DL

The rush seemed to be there, but just never could bring Wentz down. Armstead played really well. He was in on a lot of pressure, had 6 QBH's and wrecked many plays. Kerry Hyder continues to show why he is there. Super smart player and made a nice read on the Wentz QB pass play. The rest was just okay. Jones got good push consistently. Ansah is now out for the year, Dion Jordan is not effective, Street and Givens were non factors. Just an average game from this group. Kinlaw was really not a factor either.

Grade: Armstead (A), Jones (B), Hyder (B), Jones (C+), Street (C), Givens (C-), Jordan (D), Ansah (INC), KInlaw (C)

LB

I liked Kwon's game in regards to his speed and energy. However, he was really bad in the read option game. The whole team has been all season. It is not a hard play to decipher, it just takes discipline. Kwon has one job, take the outside run. On the Wentz TD run he allowed himself to peak inside two steps and got sealed off by the tackle. The DE's job is to crash inside, Jordan did that and Kwon cheated. Just really bad discipline from him on these plays. He did it twice. Warner was a victim as well. He shuffled twice to his right on a outside run from Sanders off the R/O. He shuffled because he didn't trust what he was seeing. Instead he looks inside even though the DE is crashing and has it covered, hesitates, shuffles twice and then is beat to the edge. It's inexcusable for these guys to continue to be undisciplined on this play considering they have seen it every single week. Azeez made a nice play for the INT, but he is a liability out there. He was beat badly by Sanders on an angle route that if Sanders catches it he is still running.

Grade: Kwon (C+), Warner (C+), Azeez (C+)

DB

I don't really know how to even judge this group. They are so depleted and a team with any real WR group would have destroyed these guys. Verrett was decent from what I saw. His coverage still looks good. We all know what Dontae Johnson is. On the deep ball he had the coverage, but he was terrible at running and finding the ball and gave up a step while doing so. He just doesn't compete. I don't understand why he still gets a chance here. Webster and Taylor did not appear to be factors in the game. 

Grade: Verrett (C+), Johnson (D), K'Waun (C+), Webster (INC), Taylor (INC)

S

Just an average night from these guys. Tartt played hard and fast. Ward took a terrible angle on the Wentz TD run. He moved laterally for some reason as opposed to attacking down hill on Wentz's inside hip. It caused him to overrun the play and allowed Wentz to cut inside and score. Still the coverage was good throughout the night by these guys and they really kept Ertz under wraps.

Grade: Tartt (B), Ward (C+)

ST

This team has no return game whatsoever and I know it is a bit of a thing of the past, but to have a guy like Aiyuk back there with an ability to blow one open would be nice. Taylor and Pettis are not going to accomplish anything. Wish had a really bad punt, which is rare for him and the new LS looked fine.

Grade: Gould (A), Wish (C+)

Conclusion

This game was embarrassing. The Eagles are really bad and really banged up and the Niners came out and made them look like they were on the same level. From the start of the game they played down to their level and just like in the Arizona game paid the price. This loss is inexcusable for this team. These are games they cannot give away. Until this team addresses the IOL issues they will continue to have problems. Sadly, the answer isn't in the room. Obviously getting Richburg back would be huge. Sherman should come off the 3 week IR list this week so hopefully he gets back because this team needs him. Getting Moseley/Sherman/Spoon back should really help the secondary. The offense really needs to get Mostert back as well. His explosiveness and ability to hit the hole before it closes is paramount. It isn't the end of the world that they dropped this game, but it makes the Dolphins game a must win when it should not have been that way. Looking ahead, they should be 3-2 going into weeks 6-12. In my opinion this team needs to be 8-4 after week 12 to have a shot this season. After week 12 the only gimme game is Washington. They will still need to beat Dallas, Arizona and Seattle. Realistically, I see this happening..... MIA (W), LAR (L), NE (W), SEA (L), GB (L), NO (W), LAR (W).....which makes them 7-5 heading into Buffalo......The Niners are going to need to make an amazing run. They still have the talent, but they need it to get back and get back now. 11-5 or 10-6 should get them into the playoffs. I don't think 11-5 gets them the division, but they just need to worry about stacking wins right now. Maybe I'm just incredibly frustrated by the effort and the inability to be consistent, but 4-1 with the upcoming stretch is a lot better than 3-2.....

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Outside of the "Jimmy is a good quarterback", which is largely semantics because the team can't replace him regardless on where you would rank him in some sort of hierarchy,  I agree with most of it regarding last night lol

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3 minutes ago, Forge said:

Outside of the "Jimmy is a good quarterback", I agree with most of it regarding last night lol

If you don't think Jimmy is a good QB then we may have to fight this one out. Lol. Jimmy is good. He has flaws and is nowhere close to elite nor great, but he is good. When you look at the landscape of the position across the league I think we would be hard pressed to find more then 10 QBs we would rather have today. 

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7 minutes ago, clarkfn2284 said:

If you don't think Jimmy is a good QB then we may have to fight this one out. Lol. Jimmy is good. He has flaws and is nowhere close to elite nor great, but he is good. When you look at the landscape of the position across the league I think we would be hard pressed to find more then 10 QBs we would rather have today. 

He's a competent, average quarterback in this league...and that's before you consider he plays in one of, if not, the easiest QB system in the NFL. No way I'm putting him in the top 10. There's seriously nothing that separates him from Derek Carr, and maybe even Teddy Bridgewater (current day Bridgewater, which needs a larger sample size, tbh....because you're talking 10 games or whatever...but that time will come) 

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I think to a good chunk of any non 49er fans, the idea of Jimmy G as a top 10 quarterback in the NFL is probably laughable. 

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3 minutes ago, Forge said:

He's a competent, average quarterback in this league...and that's before you consider he plays in one of, if not, the easiest QB system in the NFL. No way I'm putting him in the top 10. There's seriously nothing that separates him from Derek Carr, and maybe even Teddy Bridgewater.

"A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still."

 😐 

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1 minute ago, Forge said:

He's a competent, average quarterback in this league...and that's before you consider he plays in one of, if not, the easiest QB system in the NFL. No way I'm putting him in the top 10. There's seriously nothing that separates him from Derek Carr, and maybe even Teddy Bridgewater.

I said the same thing yesterday watching the Raiders game and then later on in the Niners game as both Jimmy & Carr are basically in the same category of QB's. I put them above Teddy though not sure by how much. But the Derek Carr of 2016 was close to elite though but hasn't been the same since. 

Hell Matt Ryan is a former MVP and the Falcons still haven't won anything with him and all his nice numbers. Matthew Stafford puts up nice numbers but has occasional brain cramps in crucial situations and has stunk in brief playoff appearances. Kirk Cousins is a feast or famine QB and often times famine lately.

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2 minutes ago, Forge said:

I think to any non 49er fan, the ideal of Jimmy G as a top 10 quarterback in the NFL is probably laughable. 

Well if Jimmy was a top 10 QB I don't think they get him from the Patriots with just a 2nd rounder. Bill Belichick knew what he was doing when he got rid of Jimmy. 

 

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1 minute ago, NFL Network said:

Well if Jimmy was a top 10 QB I don't think they get him from the Patriots with just a 2nd rounder. Bill Belichick knew what he was doing when he got rid of Jimmy. 

 

Had to edit it..really should be " I think to the majority of any non 49er fans"....I'm sure that there are non 49er fans who are still bullish on him and maybe have him rated that highly. I just don't believe that would be the common belief 

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2 hours ago, Forge said:

Had to edit it..really should be " I think to the majority of any non 49er fans"....I'm sure that there are non 49er fans who are still bullish on him and maybe have him rated that highly. I just don't believe that would be the common belief 

I guess if your team has someone like an underperforming Sam Darnold at QB then yes Jimmy would be a nice upgrade. For the sake of argument if the Niners were to find a taker for Jimmy this offseason and got a 2nd round pick in return I'd wouldn't lose any sleep b/c I'd view it as no big loss.

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Everyone is as always, so obsessed about the QB position. Our QB1 is not the problem. Very few superstar QBs. All we need is a good one, and we have that. I hoped for more of Mullens, but no problem admitting it was based on absolutely no real thing other than less than serious hope. 

So yeah, our OL is garbage. Trent W is looking like what I originally expected when we signed him (about washed up). The IOL is about what we expected, though it was fair to hope for improvement. And the large elephant on the field named McGlinchey? Don't get me started.

I still say Mullens is a very good QB2 that can split some games for Jimmy, but it takes a middling pass pro OL, and we don't have that.

I still say Jimmy G is a plenty good and improving QB1 that can win double digit games, but it takes a middling pass pro OL, and we don't have that.

 

The real question is, is Jimmy G good enough to keep paying 25+ mil a year to? 

 

Eh.. I'd say probably, but he still has to earn that. Can he do that behind this OL? I don't know. Guess we'll see. This a Super Bowl season? nah. Not without better health from key players. 

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3 hours ago, Forge said:

He's a competent, average quarterback in this league...and that's before you consider he plays in one of, if not, the easiest QB system in the NFL. No way I'm putting him in the top 10. There's seriously nothing that separates him from Derek Carr, and maybe even Teddy Bridgewater (current day Bridgewater, which needs a larger sample size, tbh....because you're talking 10 games or whatever...but that time will come) 

I vehemently disagree. There are maybe 10-12 QBs that I would take right now over Jimmy. There are guys like Stafford that appear to have more talent, but have the mental and physical limitations that you dont want similar to Jimmy. Then you have the guys like Teddy and Herbert in the league that have a small sample size. I don't think we are even splitting hairs here I would say he is top 12 which is essentially top 3rd in the league and you are talking about him like he is back half. Obviously its preference and opinion, but the results are there as well. We can say its a great system for a QB, but isnt every system for good QBs? Nobody looks at a bad or average QB and says they have a great system when its clearly not working. This fan base has a sick obsession with this idea that Joe or Steve are coming.....they didn't appreciate the likes of Garcia, Smith and now we are starting to see it with Jimmy. 

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2 hours ago, clarkfn2284 said:

you are talking about him like he is back half.

I said he was average, quite clearly.  That being said, I group them more in tiers. He's part of a very large collection of average basically from 12-18 or so who can be above average, average, or below average on any given day. I don't understand why Jimmy fans are so afraid of him being categorized as average. It's not a bad word. 

2 hours ago, clarkfn2284 said:

There are maybe 10-12 QBs that I would take right now over Jimmy

Maybe you can classify 11 as "good"? Like I said from the start, this is all basically semantics. Him being #13 doesn't really make him "good" in my opinion though lol.  That puts him in a largely average tier which is all I have ever said about him. What makes him better than Goff? Carr? Stafford? Cousins? Especially if you put those guys with Shanny (well, Goff has mcvay, that's close enough)? What about the really good guys? Watson? Jackson? Mahomes? Ryan? Rodgers? Wilson? Matt Ryan? What about the young guys who can move like Josh Allen, Dak, Murray? Allen's sample size is very small with the success he's having this year, , but Jimmy doesn't have the upside to do what Allen is doing now. Dak / Murray probably would be viewed above him, Dak rightfully so at this point, though Murray probably needs more time. What about the old guys in Brees and Brady and Ben?  Brees and Jimmy are basically the same at this point but Brees throws fewer INTS. Like, how many guys can be viewed in the spectrum of "good"? Getting to be a lot of guys, and that's before considering someone like Tannehill, who  will get a significant number of people voting for him if you were to put up a poll. Healthy Cam? He's not better or worse than all of these guys, but there would be a discussion at hand. Can we have 20 "good" quarterbacks? 

Now, it really is splitting hairs to say that one is better than the other, or to rank them individually. That's why I like Tiers. That's also the way Sando's NFL rankings use. On any given day, Jimmy can be really good and be better than Cousins, for example. Vice Versa. Sando's Coaches and GM rankings had him in tier 3 of 5, so average...with a lot of other guys, because after a certain point, a lot of these guys are the same and basically just are their situation. Put them in a bad situation, they are likely to be bad over a prolonged period of time. Put them in a good situation, they are likely to be good for a prolonged period of time. 

2 hours ago, clarkfn2284 said:

We can say its a great system for a QB, but isnt every system for good QBs?

Noooooooo...that's part of my point. I mean, come on. That's not a  real question, right? There are coaches who wouldn't know a good offensive scheme if Shanny drew it up and gave it to them. There are amazing offensive geniuses, and it's generally regarded that Shanny is one of those guys. Then there are guys who...you know...aren't. Andy Reid makes every QB he works with somewhat competent. Look at Matt Moore last year, or Kevin Kolb in years past. Mike Leach's quarterbacks put up the most absurd stats in college and they are all like Gardner Minshew lol. 

Dak has had the damn clapper for his entire career lol. Goff started off Fisher, and Wilson has had to endure Pete and Bevell and Schottenheimer. Watson has dealt with BOB...who wasn't good as a coach or gm lol. The first 4 years of his career, Carr had Dennis Allen, Tony Sparano, and Jack Del rio as head coaches. We really going to say that Jimmy hasn't had a built in advantage  with Shanny? Or that those differences don't matter? Tannehill had Gase and we are starting to see what a mess that is. 

And again, he plays in the possibly the most protected system in the NFL with an offensive genius. People love to give Shanny his adulation, but weird how that is forgotten about when evaluating Jimmy..and it matters. Context matters.

Jimmy was  31st out of 32 last year in average depth of target. #1 in yards after the catch per receiver by a substantial margin (the difference between us and #2 was greater than the difference between 2-9). The system and his players are doing a lot of heavy lifting for him to buff those impressive stat numbers.   If anyone is going to deny that, I don't know that there's much to talk about it. I really think that if you pop him out of this system with another reasonably comparable quarterback, nothing changes all that much. Dangerous gamble for sure, but to me this offense is just as good if you ran this during Alex Smith's prime. Maybe Derek Carr. I seriously don't know that there's a difference. I'm not saying that Jimmy is bad...I'm saying that I think he's pretty average. You can't just randomly replace him, but he's also not irreplaceable. Hell, I'm not even sure how much Kyle loves him as his QB if we are going to be honest. Others have the same question; @N4L and I have discussed it before. 

2 hours ago, clarkfn2284 said:

This fan base has a sick obsession with this idea that Joe or Steve are coming.....they didn't appreciate the likes of Garcia, Smith and now we are starting to see it with Jimmy. 

Fan is short for fanatic...I'm not sure why you would be expecting rational groupthink from a fan base as a whole lol. I mean, people legitimately thought there was a QB controversy with Mullens and Jimmy lol

That being said, this is a QB league. A guy like Mahomes will keep the Chiefs as a super bowl contender for a decade. Having a great quarterback won't always get you to the playoffs, but it does a lot, which instantly makes you a contender in a higher percentages of seasons. That's why teams cycle through them so much. The problem is that people tend to think that you can't win with a decent QB, but history, even recent history, has shown that you can. You need some luck - an elite team around them, or for said QB to catch fire, but we should have won last year, the Eagles won with Foles, Denver with the corpse of Manning and Baltimore with Flacco. That's why you don't replace Jimmy just to replace him; you'd like to get better at the position, and that's not easy plus you're removing any possibility of him just getting better through progression.

As I've mentioned before any thought of Jimmy basically goes out the window because this is a process. You're looking at 2-3 years at the earliest before that's even a thing because he's good enough to be a solid starting quarterback in the NFL and those don't just grow on trees and may get better. 

I am intrigued by the idea of Kyle trying to money ball this position, and I Think that there is some merit to that in this very specific situation given who our coach is. I wouldn't try it with Zimmer, for example. But if you think you can pop out Jimmy, who I Think is an average quarterback who has statistics inflated by a very good coach and system, with another average quarterback and not lose much in the efficiency and production, but one guy is $12M cheaper, there is real merit to considering that and putting that money elsewhere for use. It won't happen in the NFL, but given the super bowl to QB salary cap hit mythos that still hasn't quite been disproven even though it should have been (Matt Ryan) there is at least some baseline intrigue behind it. 

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14 hours ago, Forge said:

I said he was average, quite clearly.  That being said, I group them more in tiers. He's part of a very large collection of average basically from 12-18 or so who can be above average, average, or below average on any given day. I don't understand why Jimmy fans are so afraid of him being categorized as average. It's not a bad word. 

Maybe you can classify 11 as "good"? Like I said from the start, this is all basically semantics. Him being #13 doesn't really make him "good" in my opinion though lol.  That puts him in a largely average tier which is all I have ever said about him. What makes him better than Goff? Carr? Stafford? Cousins? Especially if you put those guys with Shanny (well, Goff has mcvay, that's close enough)? What about the really good guys? Watson? Jackson? Mahomes? Ryan? Rodgers? Wilson? Matt Ryan? What about the young guys who can move like Josh Allen, Dak, Murray? Allen's sample size is very small with the success he's having this year, , but Jimmy doesn't have the upside to do what Allen is doing now. Dak / Murray probably would be viewed above him, Dak rightfully so at this point, though Murray probably needs more time. What about the old guys in Brees and Brady and Ben?  Brees and Jimmy are basically the same at this point but Brees throws fewer INTS. Like, how many guys can be viewed in the spectrum of "good"? Getting to be a lot of guys, and that's before considering someone like Tannehill, who  will get a significant number of people voting for him if you were to put up a poll. Healthy Cam? He's not better or worse than all of these guys, but there would be a discussion at hand. Can we have 20 "good" quarterbacks? 

Now, it really is splitting hairs to say that one is better than the other, or to rank them individually. That's why I like Tiers. That's also the way Sando's NFL rankings use. On any given day, Jimmy can be really good and be better than Cousins, for example. Vice Versa. Sando's Coaches and GM rankings had him in tier 3 of 5, so average...with a lot of other guys, because after a certain point, a lot of these guys are the same and basically just are their situation. Put them in a bad situation, they are likely to be bad over a prolonged period of time. Put them in a good situation, they are likely to be good for a prolonged period of time. 

Noooooooo...that's part of my point. I mean, come on. That's not a  real question, right? There are coaches who wouldn't know a good offensive scheme if Shanny drew it up and gave it to them. There are amazing offensive geniuses, and it's generally regarded that Shanny is one of those guys. Then there are guys who...you know...aren't. Andy Reid makes every QB he works with somewhat competent. Look at Matt Moore last year, or Kevin Kolb in years past. Mike Leach's quarterbacks put up the most absurd stats in college and they are all like Gardner Minshew lol. 

Dak has had the damn clapper for his entire career lol. Goff started off Fisher, and Wilson has had to endure Pete and Bevell and Schottenheimer. Watson has dealt with BOB...who wasn't good as a coach or gm lol. The first 4 years of his career, Carr had Dennis Allen, Tony Sparano, and Jack Del rio as head coaches. We really going to say that Jimmy hasn't had a built in advantage  with Shanny? Or that those differences don't matter? Tannehill had Gase and we are starting to see what a mess that is. 

And again, he plays in the possibly the most protected system in the NFL with an offensive genius. People love to give Shanny his adulation, but weird how that is forgotten about when evaluating Jimmy..and it matters. Context matters.

Jimmy was  31st out of 32 last year in average depth of target. #1 in yards after the catch per receiver by a substantial margin (the difference between us and #2 was greater than the difference between 2-9). The system and his players are doing a lot of heavy lifting for him to buff those impressive stat numbers.   If anyone is going to deny that, I don't know that there's much to talk about it. I really think that if you pop him out of this system with another reasonably comparable quarterback, nothing changes all that much. Dangerous gamble for sure, but to me this offense is just as good if you ran this during Alex Smith's prime. Maybe Derek Carr. I seriously don't know that there's a difference. I'm not saying that Jimmy is bad...I'm saying that I think he's pretty average. You can't just randomly replace him, but he's also not irreplaceable. Hell, I'm not even sure how much Kyle loves him as his QB if we are going to be honest. Others have the same question; @N4L and I have discussed it before. 

Fan is short for fanatic...I'm not sure why you would be expecting rational groupthink from a fan base as a whole lol. I mean, people legitimately thought there was a QB controversy with Mullens and Jimmy lol

That being said, this is a QB league. A guy like Mahomes will keep the Chiefs as a super bowl contender for a decade. Having a great quarterback won't always get you to the playoffs, but it does a lot, which instantly makes you a contender in a higher percentages of seasons. That's why teams cycle through them so much. The problem is that people tend to think that you can't win with a decent QB, but history, even recent history, has shown that you can. You need some luck - an elite team around them, or for said QB to catch fire, but we should have won last year, the Eagles won with Foles, Denver with the corpse of Manning and Baltimore with Flacco. That's why you don't replace Jimmy just to replace him; you'd like to get better at the position, and that's not easy plus you're removing any possibility of him just getting better through progression.

As I've mentioned before any thought of Jimmy basically goes out the window because this is a process. You're looking at 2-3 years at the earliest before that's even a thing because he's good enough to be a solid starting quarterback in the NFL and those don't just grow on trees and may get better. 

I am intrigued by the idea of Kyle trying to money ball this position, and I Think that there is some merit to that in this very specific situation given who our coach is. I wouldn't try it with Zimmer, for example. But if you think you can pop out Jimmy, who I Think is an average quarterback who has statistics inflated by a very good coach and system, with another average quarterback and not lose much in the efficiency and production, but one guy is $12M cheaper, there is real merit to considering that and putting that money elsewhere for use. It won't happen in the NFL, but given the super bowl to QB salary cap hit mythos that still hasn't quite been disproven even though it should have been (Matt Ryan) there is at least some baseline intrigue behind it. 

No I do not think there are 20 "good" QBs in the league. I figured that would be obvious with my placing of Jimmy in the 10-12 range and calling him good. Im not saying he is top 5 or in the upper 3 tiers, but you dont get to ignore the results he has that others do not. We have obviously seen the talent, so if you are denying the talent, then why are we even discussing it? Now, the consistency it takes to be upper tier is what is lacking. In thoday's current setting which is what you have to go off of, you wont take Brees, Brady or Ben due to longevity. Now if you want to get into a window to win a Super Bowl, Brees and Brady, but no way is anyone sensibly taking Ben over Jimmy. 

In regards to the system, any good QB that has success is always going to have the he is in a good system label. Nobody ever says he is in a good system, but he isn't good. If the QB is good the system is good. If the QB is bad the system is bad. Andy Reid has had long term solid options at QB, when he has had to go to guys like Moore or Kolb they had talent stacked around them. Let's not sit here and act like Andy Reid has been trotting out bottom of the barrel options for a good portion of his career. We both know that systems, QBs, skill players go hand in hand. Success is limited without each of them. It's absurd for you to discount Jimmy and his part in it.

In regards to fans.......there are plenty of people out there that are fans that are objective and not overtly stupid in logic. We both know that, there are loads of us in here. This fan base has longed for years for the next "great QB", those are generational talents, they don't just show up and yeah, we were spoiled for essentially 20 years with great QBs, but it's flat out idiotic to ignore the talent that we have seen and discount their ability because you are a "fan." That is my gripe. If anyone thought for a seond that the backup is a better option then the #1 here they are dumb and it's okay to say that.

Jimmy isn't a generational guy, so no he isnt Brees, Brady, Ben or Mahomes, but he is more then average. The results show that, the talent shows that. 13-3 and a Super Bowl trip and he is considered average. He isn't the entire reason this team was a great as they were last season, but he deserves as much credit as any aspect. He isn't Trent Dilfer on the Ravens either. 

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