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clarkfn2284

Clarkfn's 2020 Game Reviews Week 4 vs Philadelphia

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15 hours ago, clarkfn2284 said:

No I do not think there are 20 "good" QBs in the league. I figured that would be obvious with my placing of Jimmy in the 10-12 range and calling him good. Im not saying he is top 5 or in the upper 3 tiers, but you dont get to ignore the results he has that others do not. We have obviously seen the talent, so if you are denying the talent, then why are we even discussing it? Now, the consistency it takes to be upper tier is what is lacking. In thoday's current setting which is what you have to go off of, you wont take Brees, Brady or Ben due to longevity. Now if you want to get into a window to win a Super Bowl, Brees and Brady, but no way is anyone sensibly taking Ben over Jimmy. 

In regards to the system, any good QB that has success is always going to have the he is in a good system label. Nobody ever says he is in a good system, but he isn't good. If the QB is good the system is good. If the QB is bad the system is bad. Andy Reid has had long term solid options at QB, when he has had to go to guys like Moore or Kolb they had talent stacked around them. Let's not sit here and act like Andy Reid has been trotting out bottom of the barrel options for a good portion of his career. We both know that systems, QBs, skill players go hand in hand. Success is limited without each of them. It's absurd for you to discount Jimmy and his part in it.

In regards to fans.......there are plenty of people out there that are fans that are objective and not overtly stupid in logic. We both know that, there are loads of us in here. This fan base has longed for years for the next "great QB", those are generational talents, they don't just show up and yeah, we were spoiled for essentially 20 years with great QBs, but it's flat out idiotic to ignore the talent that we have seen and discount their ability because you are a "fan." That is my gripe. If anyone thought for a seond that the backup is a better option then the #1 here they are dumb and it's okay to say that.

Jimmy isn't a generational guy, so no he isnt Brees, Brady, Ben or Mahomes, but he is more then average. The results show that, the talent shows that. 13-3 and a Super Bowl trip and he is considered average. He isn't the entire reason this team was a great as they were last season, but he deserves as much credit as any aspect. He isn't Trent Dilfer on the Ravens either. 

Okay, this will be my last comment on this because degree of semantics arguing is just stupid, and frankly, it seems like you are fighting a war that is not actually being waged by anyone. I don't know what it is about the Jimmy fans who take such offense to being labeled average...it's legitimately weird. It's like I said he was Nathan Peterman or something. 

First off, you have to be willing to accept the fundamental truth that just because I don't believe that someone is good, doesn't mean I believe that they are bad. This isn't a binary, pass / fail test. This seems to be something you are struggling with when you say things like this (particularly the latter):

15 hours ago, clarkfn2284 said:

We have obviously seen the talent, so if you are denying the talent, then why are we even discussing it?

 

15 hours ago, clarkfn2284 said:

He isn't Trent Dilfer on the Ravens either. 

I believe his talent is that of an average QB. That's what I have seen, that's what I credit him for. 

And the Dilfer comment is either rampant hyperbole or a failure to understand my clearly stated opinion that he's an average QB....or you think that Dilfer was an average QB with the Ravens...and I'm going to be honest...if you do, I have to end this conversation now. Just because I don't think he's good doesn't mean he's Trent Dilfer on the Ravens. I don't know why this is difficult. 

Secondarily, there's the semantics of this all which is just hilarious.  You clearly stated that you didn't know if you would put him in your top 10-12. Furthermore, my stated case is that I believe he fits into a large tier of quarterbacks that can range anywhere from 12-18. Two of your potential ranking slots for Jimmy are quite literally in my tier lol. If you were to break it down by exact slot, which I Don't even like doing, I'm potentially 3 under where you are. If anything, this appears to be mostly a quibble about verbiage word usage with maybe a variation in talent evaluation. 

15 hours ago, clarkfn2284 said:

Im not saying he is top 5 or in the upper 3 tiers, but you dont get to ignore the results he has that others do not.

I'm not ignoring any results. 

Getting to a super bowl and losing doesn't mean you are a "good QB". So there's nothing to ignore there. I've also said multiple times that his statistics are pretty, but I also believe that they are the statistics of an average QB in a good system artificially inflating some of his numbers. I think his numbers can be replicated with another competent, average, starting  QB across the NFL. 

15 hours ago, clarkfn2284 said:

In thoday's current setting which is what you have to go off of, you wont take Brees, Brady or Ben due to longevity

Who'd you take long term is a completely different question than who is better at this very moment and would yield different results. That's greatly changing the question there. 

15 hours ago, clarkfn2284 said:

In regards to the system, any good QB that has success is always going to have the he is in a good system label

That's not accurate at all. Some quarterbacks are just perceived as good. Dak has been good for years, nobody was attaching the "good system" label to the Clapper's offense. Same thing for Rodgers during the McCarthy years at various points. I never heard anyone give much credit to BOB for what Watson was doing.  There are beneficial systems, bad systems, average systems....they take all types of quarterbacks. 

15 hours ago, clarkfn2284 said:

Nobody ever says he is in a good system, but he isn't good.

Again, not remotely accurate. It's just bad quarterbacks, you know, usually get replaced so you don't talk about them long. Brian Hoyer and CJ Beathard were in good systems but were bad quarterbacks. Last year, lots of people though Jared Goff was in a good system but wasn't good. There are bad QBs in good systems all the time. And there are plenty of people who feel that way about Jimmy. People comment on it all the time. One of the comments this very week during the game was someone basically saying that they couldn't wait to see Shanny with a good quarterback lol. 

15 hours ago, clarkfn2284 said:

It's absurd for you to discount Jimmy and his part in it.

I'm not discounting his part in it at all. I just don't believe his importance is as great as you do. In the words of @N4L, he's a point guard who gets the ball where it needs to go. Derek Carr is not seen as a good quarterback. He doesn't throw deep (neither does Jimmy), he completes about 70% of his passes and is seen as very accurate. In my opinion, there's very little difference popping Jimmy out and replacing him with Carr. There's nothing particularly great about his game in my opinion. He does what he needs to do. Long term, if he's in a good situation, he'll perform well. Long term if you put him in a bad situation, he probably won't. That's true for a large number of quarterbacks. 

15 hours ago, clarkfn2284 said:

but he is more then average

Not to me. I don't think that there's much of anything that separates him from the likes of Cousins, Carr, Goff, etc. But I think that is a very large grouping of guys. You don't. 

15 hours ago, clarkfn2284 said:

The results show that, the talent shows that.

What results? The stats are pretty...but again, I think based on what I see with my eyes, the additional data mining that can be done including breaking down actual statistics, comparing to other quarterbacks in the league and against other quarterbacks in this system, I think there is some inflation. The talent largely shows to me an average quarterback. It's not like my idea of him is off base in a general sense. Not sure how it gets more average than this: 

NFL.com QB rankings headed into the season - 14

Chris Simms QB rankings - 21 (yikes)

CBS - 14

Sporting News - 14

Mike Sando NFL coach and gm tier ranks - 3 (of 5)

NBC - 15

PFF - Sam Monson - 15

SI - 13

Last Word - 13

B/R - 17

Now granted, neither of us have to listen to any of these people's opinions and they don't really mean anything, but it just gives you an idea on where the common thoughts are on him, and typically a majority opinion exists for a reason. You can discount that, because that's what people always do when these things are brought up, but LIS, this stuff often exists in such a way for a reason. 

15 hours ago, clarkfn2284 said:

13-3 and a Super Bowl trip and he is considered average

Oh no...are we really going to use W/L?  

And getting to a super bowl is not a sign that you are a good QB. The dude threw 8 passes in one of those games in the playoffs, and against Minnesota he actually wasn't good in the limited rope we gave him and he was pretty bad in the super bowl. Again...context is very important. 

15 hours ago, clarkfn2284 said:

He isn't the entire reason this team was a great as they were last season, but he deserves as much credit as any aspect. He isn't Trent Dilfer on the Ravens either. 

I give him the credit I think he deserves...if we have a worse QB, we probably aren't as successful. If we have a comparable QB, we probably are. The difference is only that  I think there are more people that can replicate what he does than you do. 

And I never said he was Trent Dilfer...again, just a gross mischaracterization of my point that I've made several times. 

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On 10/6/2020 at 3:44 AM, clarkfn2284 said:

If you don't think Jimmy is a good QB then we may have to fight this one out. Lol. Jimmy is good. He has flaws and is nowhere close to elite nor great, but he is good. When you look at the landscape of the position across the league I think we would be hard pressed to find more then 10 QBs we would rather have today. 

Proud Crying GIFs | Tenor

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Posted (edited)
On 10/6/2020 at 3:57 AM, NFL Network said:

Well if Jimmy was a top 10 QB I don't think they get him from the Patriots with just a 2nd rounder. Bill Belichick knew what he was doing when he got rid of Jimmy. 

 

They had no choice. Jimmy's contract was going to expire at the end of the season. And he wasn't going to resign to be a backup. And the Patriots were not going to pay Brady, and give a high price contract to a backup QB even if Jimmy wanted to return. With the trade deadline looming, Belichick got the best offer he could garner at the time. He even said in his presser that he didn't want to trade Jimmy, but that with how the league is set up he essentially had no choice. Also, no team out there was going to offer a first round pick for Jimmy after such a limited sample size. 

I don't know why this narrative keeps getting twisted. Bill clearly didn't want to let him leave. 

 

Edited by TecmoSuperJoe
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2 hours ago, TecmoSuperJoe said:

I don't know why this narrative keeps getting twisted. Bill clearly didn't want to let him leave. 

But Tom did 

mwahahahaha

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