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2021 Draft Thread


John232

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2 hours ago, straighthate said:

Jones- Had plenty of time in the pocket so was easy for him to go through his reads. But he seemed to look first to the open receiver which to me means he can read a defense. Not mobile enough but not so much that I think he can’t escape when necessary.   His passes were mainly on the mark, but not perfect. Don’t think accuracy will be an issue for him though. Arm strength looked good but I don’t believe i ever saw him go deep. To me, compares to a combo of Big Ben and Eli, if that makes sense. 

 I think an underrated part of the Jones criticism is that I'm not 100% sure on how truly accurate he is. He's never just way off...but I don't think that his placement is elite or anything either. He does make some nice throws, but I'm with you...a lot of times you see the receiver adjusting to it and I don't think that is something that gets brought up enough. The fact that he's not mobile at all hurts. The NFL is slowly changing at least somewhat in that regard. I dont' think you'll see guys who can't move go super high any more. Just about everyone can make some sort of moves with their legs and I value that. 

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I believe based on the thread, these are PFF stats. Fields also had a much higher rating in 2019 it seems (again, based on thread)...but honestly, just looking at this...seems kind of over saturated. I wonder about whether these mean anything at all. 

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2 minutes ago, Forge said:

I believe based on the thread, these are PFF stats. Fields also had a much higher rating in 2019 it seems (again, based on thread)...but honestly, just looking at this...seems kind of over saturated. I wonder about whether these mean anything at all. 

Pressure on itself doesn't tell a complete story. If you get pressure after 2 second on average or if it takes 3 makes such a big difference. Especially with what i have seen from Jones its more likely to be the latter.

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3 hours ago, Forge said:

 I think an underrated part of the Jones criticism is that I'm not 100% sure on how truly accurate he is. He's never just way off...but I don't think that his placement is elite or anything either. He does make some nice throws, but I'm with you...a lot of times you see the receiver adjusting to it and I don't think that is something that gets brought up enough. The fact that he's not mobile at all hurts. The NFL is slowly changing at least somewhat in that regard. I dont' think you'll see guys who can't move go super high any more. Just about everyone can make some sort of moves with their legs and I value that. 

I kind of get that. I rely on pff for that, honestly. They chart every throw related to the receiver's body. It gets multiple pluses for bucketing, leading just right, and so forth. They aren't perfect and the human eye can certainly be fooled while quickly going through each play by open receivers catching things, but they are a hell of a lot better than anecdotal evidence. They have him with a higher grade than Joe Burrow. Now, my worry would be...is he like a Dwayne Haskins? A pure pocket passer with all of the best weapons and line and whose grade was indeed a touch inflated as a result. But none of this accounts for personal character, and all respect to Dwayne Haskins, he lacked the makeup to be an NFL quarterback as much as he lacked the talent. 

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6 minutes ago, JIllg said:

I kind of get that. I rely on pff for that, honestly. They chart every throw related to the receiver's body. It gets multiple pluses for bucketing, leading just right, and so forth. They aren't perfect and the human eye can certainly be fooled while quickly going through each play by open receivers catching things, but they are a hell of a lot better than anecdotal evidence. They have him with a higher grade than Joe Burrow. Now, my worry would be...is he like a Dwayne Haskins? A pure pocket passer with all of the best weapons and line and whose grade was indeed a touch inflated as a result. But none of this accounts for personal character, and all respect to Dwayne Haskins, he lacked the makeup to be an NFL quarterback as much as he lacked the talent. 

Haskins is such a strange case. The guy was one of the hardest workers from all accounts all throughout HS and college and once he got drafted all that went out of the window it seemed. And with Haskins i don't think his actual throwing of the football has any part in the way he failed. All other things like processing and actually putting in the work to be the best he can be is where he faltered. 

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I'm starting to buy into Lance at 12 but keeping Jimmy. I don't think Kyle/Lynch are going to move up for one of the 3. I wouldn't be surprised if they take the Mahomes approach with Trey Lance. Idk if I'd do it but I know we keep bashing how difficult it is to learn Kyle's scheme. So it make sense to slow it down for him his first season. Now I'd prefer if we draft a QB to just let go Jimmy and grt Fitz with Lance. But I just don't think it's going to happen with what Kyle wants. I think Jimmy gets moved next off-season. 

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I know it's really rare for 4 QB's to go top 10, but I really think we're going to see that. Makes me think that from a pure scarcity standpoint we're going to see Trask and Jones go before the second. Jones/Trask to some combo of Indy, Pittsburgh, Saints or even Washington. Who knows, but I don't even feel comfortable with the idea that one is going to drop. HOWEVER, I think there's a really high chance Farley, Surtain and Rosseau are all there. 

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At this point in the draft i always feel QB's get pushed up boards by media and fans because its mostly what it attracts the most views for the Media. Around the combine the nitpicking will begin and the draft guys get more and more info from their sources in the league to end up with a board that is more in line with the real NFL.

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1 hour ago, Justone2 said:

At this point in the draft i always feel QB's get pushed up boards by media and fans because its mostly what it attracts the most views for the Media. Around the combine the nitpicking will begin and the draft guys get more and more info from their sources in the league to end up with a board that is more in line with the real NFL.

I agree. I mentioned that about Wilson a while back. I remember reading something that was from an anonymous NFL exec asking 'when would he be ready to play' or something along those lines. I wouldn't be surprised to see one or two of these prospects 'drop'. Honesetly I think Lance may see the biggest rise this offseason. 

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1 minute ago, GW21 said:

I agree. I mentioned that about Wilson a while back. I remember reading something that was from an anonymous NFL exec asking 'when would he be ready to play' or something along those lines. I wouldn't be surprised to see one or two of these prospects 'drop'. Honesetly I think Lance may see the biggest rise this offseason. 

Lance is one of those guys i feel is hard to pin down where he will go. Could see him go top 10 or slide out of the first(or be the last pick or something like that). Both in terms of the level he played at and the fact he is such a unique prospect makes him one of those guys that will be all over the board for different teams.

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20 minutes ago, John232 said:

So who seems like the logical guy to drop? To me it's Lance and Fields. Both have some pretty big red flags. 

What is the red flag for Lance outside of lack of experience/competition? Dude is built to be an NFL QB imo. He's got the arm, build, and mobility that makes a QB in today's NFL. I don't see Lance falling out of the top half of the first round personally. I also would not be opposed to us taking a shot on him if he's sitting there at 12, especially if we have Jimmy G to go into the season as the starter. Lance is a far superior prospect than Love was last year imo. 

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1 hour ago, GW21 said:

What is the red flag for Lance outside of lack of experience/competition? Dude is built to be an NFL QB imo. He's got the arm, build, and mobility that makes a QB in today's NFL. I don't see Lance falling out of the top half of the first round personally. I also would not be opposed to us taking a shot on him if he's sitting there at 12, especially if we have Jimmy G to go into the season as the starter. Lance is a far superior prospect than Love was last year imo. 

The experience is a pretty big flag. I'm pretty sure that the only guy who has ever had considerable success with that limited amount of passes thrown is Cam...and thats not necessarily because he was an elite passer. 

I think his timing is a tick to late. That could be mechanical or mental. I don't know. He's got sort of a funky delivery. 

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Anyone have any thoughts of Marshalls OG Cain Madden as a day 3 pick?

Without knowing what FA might bring and  of course where we're drafting I see DE and DB as being the value positions. I think we could get a ground braking WR but I'm not sure we ought to use another 1st on  yet another WR. Still only 1 ball.

I see the key to the Niners draft being tied to whether the Niners retain T. Williams or not. I'm not sure he's worth what he will ask/command.

Overall IOL is are biggest need on the offensive side of the ball.

Keep JimmyG but bring in an honest to goodness QB to challenge/push and of course back up Jimmy. Much like the Raiders did with Mariota.

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47 minutes ago, Groo said:

I see the key to the Niners draft being tied to whether the Niners retain T. Williams or not. I'm not sure he's worth what he will ask/command.

Welcome to the forum! Great post but we are backed into a corner here, and he absolutely 100% is worth the big contract he will receive

We have no viable options for LT outside of Trent Williams. There is no one else we could sign. Letting him walk means we have to take a LT, and worse, it telegraphs to the rest of the league we need a LT so if there is one that starts to fall to us, everyone will know we are targeting him and someone may jump us 

LT is a premium position. Jimmy is not mobile and has bad pocket presence. We can't not have a good LT, especially with McG being as bad at pass blocking as he is. We can't have two tackles we need to hide in the passing game. You can't win like that. 

We were prepared to pay big money for Trent when we traded for him. Otherwise, we wouldn't have passed on Wirfs. I believe wirfs was the original plan when we traded Buckner. Trading Buckner for a premium position like LT makes perfect sense. Then, Trent Williams became available so we went that direction instead. So it would seem the money we would have spent on Buckner was now earmarked for Trent in a sense. Just my take on last year's draft. This decision means our hands are tied this year. We knew they were going to be when we made the trade to some extent. Trent pushed for a restructure and a clause that meant we couldn't tag him. Obviously that sucks for us in retrospect because we lose leverage, but if that's the difference between 18m and 20m with some extra guarantees? That's fine, Trent is one of the best LTs in the NFL. He's been top 5 since he stepped on the field. That's a guy you pay. 

This Trent Williams decision is super interesting though because IF we want to move on from Jimmy, we absolutely will need to use our first on a QB. So not signing Trent, basically forces our hand to take a LT and keep Jimmy, which I am not 100% certain Kyle wants to do at this point 

Personally, I'd rather cut/trade Garoppolo and use his money on Trent, then draft a QB rather than the other way around, but that's because I am all in on Wilson or fields 

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