Kyle Allen Your New Starter

[ripsean21]

8 minutes ago, MKnight82 said:

I'm not sure how its weird.  I didn't like Haskins during the draft process, I hated the pick, and he's done nothing to convince me he's a starting caliber NFL QB.  

But has he been put in a spot too? I get sink or swim but his abilities were worth a selection as he fell to us. He was selected by a team who’s coach didn’t want him and then had a coach come in and give him a shot. Now the real shot is on him. Work your *** off and take it back. Or pout and go somewhere else and that be it. We aren’t IMO going to become a great team now that he’s out. But we are better then what we were doing with him.
I get why you didn’t like the pick completely understood. Still get it but his lapses can only be fixed with reps he hasn’t played enough for it to just be second nature so he processes slower. I guess this move doesn’t effect me because I like him was never in love. Kyler was my guy but we were out of that sweepstakes early that season.

[mar29020]

35 minutes ago, Troublez said:

This would explain the presser yesterday. It was clear that Ron was "on edge" and sputtering nonesense. If Haskins' preparation/study habits were the root cause - and Ron was taking up for Dwayne.... that would make sense. I have never seen Ron stammer like he did yesterday.

You guys cannot see the forest through the trees. Haskin's film was atrocious.... and I mean terrible.  Isn't that the logical answer? Ron saw enough to make a decision and he made it. 

article came out today about haskins being lazy with game prep and practice. I think it was in the washington post

[Troublez]

Yup @mar29020 I read the summation posted earlier in the thread. That makes complete sense - and honestly, fits the mold. If true, you guys all owe Ron a HUGE apology. I cannot believe the backlash for his decision. 

[ripsean21]

56 minutes ago, aceinthehouse said:

You guys can complain all you want, but I've seen all I need to see...

When UDFA Brett Rypien & CJ Beatherd  can March their teams down the field at will & score?

And our 1st round pick can't even audible out of a bad situation, there's a problem.

Thrown in the possibility if not likely of rumors of laziness, entitlement, etc?

It's not a tough decision.

I've have noticed more pep in my step at work though, since this decision.

I can actually feel like we may not play from behind in EVERY SINGLE freaking game & possibly win.

Yes, get Jason Campbell's clone out of there. Next man up!

Kyle Allen show them how it's done as an UDFA bro! 😎

You do realize Haskins was leading the offense that O’Connell put him in effectively and efficiently and driving down and scoring right? It’s easy to catch teams off guard. What’s not easy is to do that once they have a offseason and film on you. So please don’t compare him to Rypien and Bethard. Also they are playing for Kyle who has made every Jag QB great at some point so please don’t compare a guy who hasn’t even had a year in a system on a rebuilding team to guys who play for a team who has one of the deepest and more talented rosters in the league. 

BTW you’ve seen enough?  What have you seen enough of? This team name a starter just to quit on him or give up because fans aren’t happy? Me too. Seeing us select a player high then not develop or even put them in a position to succeed? Me too. Oh here comes Kyle Allen the closest thing to Rex Grossman we can get short of Nathan Peterman!!! I’m tired of that too. I get making the move because the team was letting down on defense and I think Rivera was trying to show he will sit whoever. But the Baltimore tape was Haskins best tape and he lost his job. So if you’ve seen enough of Haskins I predict you’ll have seen enough of Allen a month from now.

[e16bball]

So obviously many of us have been piling on Rivera, for good reason. He’s the final decision maker for the team, on and off the field. It’s his call to make.

But is anyone else feeling more than a little concerned about Scott Turner at this point? 

He’s been an offensive coordinator for a total of 8 games. During that extremely brief career, he’s already been involved in two major benchings of young starting QBs. He benched Allen for Will Grier, who it turned out was absolutely pathetically unprepared to play in the NFL. If you think Haskins has been “terrible,” let me introduce you to the actual meaning of the word: 53.8%, 4.38 Y/A, 0 TDs, 4 INTs, 1 lost fumble, 6 sacks, 33.2 passer rating, and a 3.0 QBR. 

And now he’s benched Haskins for Allen, who apparently — 6 games ago — wasn’t good enough to start in front of the Will Grier who they sent out there to humiliate himself. Some coaches don’t have the patience or the ability to work with guys and motivate them and keep their heads up through struggles. Steve Spurrier was like that...QB playing poorly? Just yank him and throw someone else in there. Scott Turner’s first half-season as an OC suggests maybe he has a bit of that in him too. 

Bigger issue would be that KOC clearly had Haskins playing well at the end of last season. I’ve mentioned it before, but a 131 combined rating in a QB’s 6th and 7th games — as Haskins had — is a historically high level of performance. He was, by every metric available, one of the top 5 QBs in the league during those two weeks. The eye test looked just as good, he was firing the ball downfield with confidence and marching them up and down. And sure it’s just two games, but it demonstrates that has the capability to play that well.

Flash forward to a couple months working with Scott Turner, and there’s not even a hint of that left. The confidence is gone, the aggressiveness has been sapped out of him, there’s no comfort with anything. When you take over coaching a player, and he gets worse than when you found him, that’s very concerning. 

As a sum up, I guess I’d just post this, which is the combined stat line of Scott Turner’s QBs in his 8 NFL games:

195/317 (61.5%), 2042 yards (6.44 Y/A), 6 TDs, 13 INTs, 4 lost fumbles, 26 sacks taken, 69.1 passer rating

[ripsean21]

46 minutes ago, Troublez said:

This would explain the presser yesterday. It was clear that Ron was "on edge" and sputtering nonesense. If Haskins' preparation/study habits were the root cause - and Ron was taking up for Dwayne.... that would make sense. I have never seen Ron stammer like he did yesterday.

You guys cannot see the forest through the trees. Haskin's film was atrocious.... and I mean terrible.  Isn't that the logical answer? Ron saw enough to make a decision and he made it. 

No we understand. But he could have Billicheked the topic and just said it was a move made for the best intrest of the players for today and moving forward. Bam you leave it there and don’t dig in deeper or even compliment further to the same question asked 14871992691 different ways. He is going through a lot with being sick and I don’t think he was as prepared for our media since Carolina isn’t the feast media market we are.
the leak justifying it and the PR nightmare we’ve lived in for years that is a huge issue because if we believe in change then THAT is a change he NEEDS to make ASAP. 
Ultimately Rivera was never married to Dwayne so he never needed to explain. And your right Dwaynes tape is bad. But the Baltimore was his best so you bench him for improving? Just think about it like this. If Rivera says he’s making this decision for the best intrest of every player on this roster for this team today and for each players growth moving forward then it’s done.

But what he did was he changed our whole team direction in his interview. He assured us now we’re going to compete. So now we are thinking our roster is play off caliber and that QB is the only thing holding this team back. So unless AGG and Wright are the second coming of Terry and Thomas turns into Kyle Pitts and our OL suddenly becomes top 10 I just don’t see it. Yes we’re competing in the NFCE. We’re tied for a division lead at 1 win😬😬😬 a fluke win!!! I like and trust Ron and I know he has a lot and I think was just not prepared for that interview. And now we’re leaking reports to do damage control and that is why we can’t stay out of our own way. 
Personally if I was Ron I would have benched Landon Collins if I wanted to make a statement to the locker. Not because he’s playing bad. But because he’s not playing great and you need him playing great as he should be. If your a leader and you do that then you made a real statement. Benching they guy who we all knew was limited and going to take time that you said he would get now again to my previous part of this book is he’s flip flopping and that as fans of this team is more of the same. There were a lot hotter candidates!!! 
 Look at Matt Rhule coaching up his players!!! Look at that staff competing that guy was the ticket!!! That was the guy. And we didn’t even entertain it. We went with a name because what it looked like they could sell us on. Culture change and results. Well giving up on someone we knew needed growth in 4 weeks looks a lot like the old culture!!! Especially when we’re benching him for a guy who is 1-7 through the last 8 weeks last season.
So instead of losing with a guy we could groom we trash him. That him is a top 15 pick!!! We could have selected Sweat with that pick and had a Second this year to take Jeremy Chin who is everything he put on film in college!!! We invested a top selection and you don’t have to marry him to give him a year to sink or swim. But if we were gonna lose we could have lost with Dwayne. If you want to win then start Alex. They aren’t doing either. I like Allen more then this post sounds like. But what it all looks like from the outside is same old same old

[PARROTHEAD]

WAPO:

[ripsean21]

4 minutes ago, e16bball said:

So obviously many of us have been piling on Rivera, for good reason. He’s the final decision maker for the team, on and off the field. It’s his call to make.

But is anyone else feeling more than a little concerned about Scott Turner at this point? 

He’s been an offensive coordinator for a total of 8 games. During that extremely brief career, he’s already been involved in two major benchings of young starting QBs. He benched Allen for Will Grier, who it turned out was absolutely pathetically unprepared to play in the NFL. If you think Haskins has been “terrible,” let me introduce you to the actual meaning of the word: 53.8%, 4.38 Y/A, 0 TDs, 4 INTs, 1 lost fumble, 6 sacks, 33.2 passer rating, and a 3.0 QBR. 

And now he’s benched Haskins for Allen, who apparently — 6 games ago — wasn’t good enough to start in front of the Will Grier who they sent out there to humiliate himself. Some coaches don’t have the patience or the ability to work with guys and motivate them and keep their heads up through struggles. Steve Spurrier was like that...QB playing poorly? Just yank him and throw someone else in there. Scott Turner’s first half-season as an OC suggests maybe he has a bit of that in him too. 

Bigger issue would be that KOC clearly had Haskins playing well at the end of last season. I’ve mentioned it before, but a 131 combined rating in a QB’s 6th and 7th games — as Haskins had — is a historically high level of performance. He was, by every metric available, one of the top 5 QBs in the league during those two weeks. The eye test looked just as good, he was firing the ball downfield with confidence and marching them up and down. And sure it’s just two games, but it demonstrates that has the capability to play that well.

Flash forward to a couple months working with Scott Turner, and there’s not even a hint of that left. The confidence is gone, the aggressiveness has been sapped out of him, there’s no comfort with anything. When you take over coaching a player, and he gets worse than when you found him, that’s very concerning. 

As a sum up, I guess I’d just post this, which is the combined stat line of Scott Turner’s QBs in his 8 NFL games:

195/317 (61.5%), 2042 yards (6.44 Y/A), 6 TDs, 13 INTs, 4 lost fumbles, 26 sacks taken, 69.1 passer rating

His offensive concepts are actually really awesome. But it’s a huge concern. We could have had O’Connell who has improved yet another QB!!! Yes it’s no surprise Dwayne struggled. We just got through the toughest preseason in history and benched our starter!!! It’s a huge concern. So great we got a defensive coach and DC and now we are the opposite of the Shanahan/ Gruden where we have all world offensive coaches and Down syndrome Bobby on defense.

It just shocks me how badly Snyder can’t seem to get out of his own way and he can’t because he keeps listening to guys that only understand old school football. It takes a full competent staff that can work with the type of hybrid players that are coming out of college on offense and defense and also can lead their personalities. We missed on the guy. And I get it we did need a culture change!!! And that has to be fixed over time. But to date I don’t see anything we were sold. 

[PARROTHEAD]

12 minutes ago, e16bball said:

So obviously many of us have been piling on Rivera, for good reason. He’s the final decision maker for the team, on and off the field. It’s his call to make.

But is anyone else feeling more than a little concerned about Scott Turner at this point? 

He’s been an offensive coordinator for a total of 8 games. During that extremely brief career, he’s already been involved in two major benchings of young starting QBs. He benched Allen for Will Grier, who it turned out was absolutely pathetically unprepared to play in the NFL. If you think Haskins has been “terrible,” let me introduce you to the actual meaning of the word: 53.8%, 4.38 Y/A, 0 TDs, 4 INTs, 1 lost fumble, 6 sacks, 33.2 passer rating, and a 3.0 QBR. 

And now he’s benched Haskins for Allen, who apparently — 6 games ago — wasn’t good enough to start in front of the Will Grier who they sent out there to humiliate himself. Some coaches don’t have the patience or the ability to work with guys and motivate them and keep their heads up through struggles. Steve Spurrier was like that...QB playing poorly? Just yank him and throw someone else in there. Scott Turner’s first half-season as an OC suggests maybe he has a bit of that in him too. 

Bigger issue would be that KOC clearly had Haskins playing well at the end of last season. I’ve mentioned it before, but a 131 combined rating in a QB’s 6th and 7th games — as Haskins had — is a historically high level of performance. He was, by every metric available, one of the top 5 QBs in the league during those two weeks. The eye test looked just as good, he was firing the ball downfield with confidence and marching them up and down. And sure it’s just two games, but it demonstrates that has the capability to play that well.

Flash forward to a couple months working with Scott Turner, and there’s not even a hint of that left. The confidence is gone, the aggressiveness has been sapped out of him, there’s no comfort with anything. When you take over coaching a player, and he gets worse than when you found him, that’s very concerning. 

As a sum up, I guess I’d just post this, which is the combined stat line of Scott Turner’s QBs in his 8 NFL games:

195/317 (61.5%), 2042 yards (6.44 Y/A), 6 TDs, 13 INTs, 4 lost fumbles, 26 sacks taken, 69.1 passer rating

Ive had concerns over Turner since being mentioned as a candidate for the position.

Kyle was 5-1 when first starting. Then went downhill fast. When Scot took over full OC duties. Carolina avg 15ppg.

KOC was a qb himself. He knew how to make plays for Haskins and was learning the full extent of his abilities. With Scot that last game. It looked more like instead of having plays cater to Haskins. He pick and chose plays of his own that he thought Haskins could work with.

[lavar703]

57 minutes ago, Troublez said:

Yup @mar29020 I read the summation posted earlier in the thread. That makes complete sense - and honestly, fits the mold. If true, you guys all owe Ron a HUGE apology. I cannot believe the backlash for his decision. 

Ron isn’t owed anything and I’ve seen this organization take a dump on players they’re done with more than enough times to take these sudden reports with a grain of salt. 

[Troublez]

Hence the "If true, <insert recommended course of action>" 

Wussah young lavar wusssah

[e16bball]

This is really great stuff. It’s long, and I usually don’t have time to watch videos that are 20+ minutes in length, but thank God for “work from home.” It’s long time NFL backup QB J.T. O’Sullivan breaking down what he sees on a number of the more noteworthy pass plays from the BAL game. I can’t recommend watching it strongly enough.

For those who don’t want to watch it, the short version is that he’s essentially concluding that it’s a situation where everyone has to take some fault in how it went in that particular game. 

He certainly has some criticism for Haskins on a number of plays. Issues like failing to recognize an unblocked rusher, not firing on some of these deep crossers (or “overs” as he calls them) that were there with McLaurin, and the inconsistent footwork/accuracy snafus that he still has. 

He also just crushes the pass protection on a couple plays. There’s one where they keep 6 in and the Ravens only brought 4, and somehow inexplicably Geron Christian still blocked down inside and left a totally free rusher that wrecked that deep wheel route to McKissic. On another, Wes Martin gets destroyed, and Logan Thomas was generally worthless in pass protection. 

Then he points out a number of issues with either scheme or teaching, where basically either the design or execution is flawed from the jump. One example was on 4th and goal from the 13, the play Turner called had only 2 receivers even running to the end zone. They have 5 eligibles, and 3 of them were running short routes. He also felt as though they were trying to use him as a square peg in a round hole, instead of playing to his talents like the Bills do with Josh Allen (or like KOC did with Haskins, I thought while he was saying that).

The primary takeaway for me is that he felt the performance was indicative of some failures on the part of everyone — Haskins himself, of course, as well as the other players and the coaching staff. He said he wouldn’t have benched Haskins, though he could understand the things they were frustrated with.

[turtle28]

2 hours ago, aceinthehouse said:

You guys can complain all you want, but I've seen all I need to see...

When UDFA Brett Rypien & CJ Beatherd  can March their teams down the field at will & score?

And our 1st round pick can't even audible out of a bad situation, there's a problem.

Thrown in the possibility if not likely of rumors of laziness, entitlement, etc?

It's not a tough decision.

I've have noticed more pep in my step at work though, since this decision.

I can actually feel like we may not play from behind in EVERY SINGLE freaking game & possibly win.

Yes, get Jason Campbell's clone out of there. Next man up!

Kyle Allen show them how it's done as an UDFA bro! 😎

Let’s repeat that Kyle Allen had 23 turnovers the last 9 games of last year, Haskins beat him last year. He’s more Rex Grossman than anything resembling a QB you can win year to year with. 
 

Dwayne Haskins has 6 this year in 4 games. And I think 8 in his last 11 games. If it’s not there, most times he’s not going to risk losing the ball and having the opponent with a short field - save the Browns game - which I still can’t believe he did bc it’s out of character for him.

Edited October 8, 2020 by turtle28

[offbyone]

1 hour ago, Troublez said:

Yup @mar29020 I read the summation posted earlier in the thread. That makes complete sense - and honestly, fits the mold. If true, you guys all owe Ron a HUGE apology. I cannot believe the backlash for his decision. 

Give me a break.  I am not letting Rivera off the hook for his endless inconsistencies.  Rivera is only playing 90% of games and then quits.  That is ok, but it isn't ok for Haskins to only give 90% during practice? 

Edited October 8, 2020 by offbyone

[MKnight82]

2 minutes ago, offbyone said:

Rivera is only playing 90% of games and then quits.

?