MKnight82 Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 2 minutes ago, aceinthehouse said: I don't add Kirk... Baugh wins Championships Theisman win SB Jurgensen has Hof type career Cousins chokes when the game is on the line... Cousins is somewhere between Billy Kilmer & Heath Shuler... I didn't say Kirk was a franchise QB. I said he was better than Haskins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeT14 Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 32 minutes ago, turtle28 said: Yep, 11-25 since we didn’t re-sign Kirk and soon to be 11-26 and Alex delivered 6 of those wins and 1/2 the fan base wanted him gone or never wanted him. Still don't/didn't Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, MikeT14 said: We still would be too if he were here 😆 He’s not even here and they are. You can’t even mention anywhere that Kirk had a good game bc you’ll bet killed in this forum or social media. Remember the Skins guy that was in here from Oct 2018 until recently, first person I ever put on the ignore list until a few days ago. Then, go to Twitter and have arguments with someone defending Haskins but hating Kirk after Kirk has won a playoff game and throws for 4,000 yards a year. Edited October 9, 2020 by turtle28 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e16bball Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 1 hour ago, MKnight82 said: I mean the fans crucified Kirk all the time and he was light years better than Haskins. Useful comparison. Cousins First 11 Games: 58.4% completion, 7.1 Y/A, 14 TDs, 15 INTs, 75.1 passer rating Let’s add a bit of context to those numbers, to reflect that Cousins was doing that at ages 24-26 (compared to Haskins having been 22-23), that he was a 3-year college starter (compared to just one year for Haskins), and that he was playing with guys like Pierre Garcon, Santana Moss, Desean Jackson, Jordan Reed, Alfred Morris, and arguably the best OL we’ve had in recent memory. Given all that, I think you’ll have to conclude that early Cousins was not in fact “light years better than Haskins.” Now, as we all recall, they didn’t give up on Cousins at that point. They stuck with him and gave him time to improve and eventually he developed into something much better than current Haskins. But I don’t think that supports the larger point you’re trying to make here... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aceinthehouse Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 It's all in the head, gentleman. Haskins has the physical tools. He just doesn't have it upstairs. Whether that's a confidence issue, processing the playbook, phycological issue or reaction time. Who knows? What I do know... Is a lesser talented QB, can play better if he has that going for him. Look no further than Ryan Fitzmagic... Dude scored a 50 (perfect) on his wonderlic test & went to Harvard I believe. Is he more talented than Haskins? Heck no But he knows how to play QB affectively & can be thrown in the game without any preparation & succeed. Unfortunately, his lack of talent creeps up on him & mistakes occur. Let's hope Allen has it upstairs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 14 minutes ago, e16bball said: Useful comparison. Cousins First 11 Games: 58.4% completion, 7.1 Y/A, 14 TDs, 15 INTs, 75.1 passer rating Let’s add a bit of context to those numbers, to reflect that Cousins was doing that at ages 24-26 (compared to Haskins having been 22-23), that he was a 3-year college starter (compared to just one year for Haskins), and that he was playing with guys like Pierre Garcon, Santana Moss, Desean Jackson, Jordan Reed, Alfred Morris, and arguably the best OL we’ve had in recent memory. Given all that, I think you’ll have to conclude that early Cousins was not in fact “light years better than Haskins.” Now, as we all recall, they didn’t give up on Cousins at that point. They stuck with him and gave him time to improve and eventually he developed into something much better than current Haskins. But I don’t think that supports the larger point you’re trying to make here... Early Cousins - 2013 Cousins - wasn’t as good as Haskins in terms of taking care of the ball. Early Cousins took more chances down the field. Also let’s remember that in 2014 7 of those ints came in two games when Kirk was trying to bring us back against Az & the NYG where he also threw for a combined 3 TDs and 611 yards. Of course we have to remember that in 2014 out top 2 WRs were DJax & Garçon and we had Reed. Probably better players than everyone but Terry that we currently have... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 (edited) 54 minutes ago, MikeT14 said: Still don't/didn't I get it, Alex wasn’t great but he was good enough to get to the playoffs with and possibly win games if he had an elite D on the other side. 2011 Playoffs showed us that. I think if Alex didn’t get hurt in 2018 that we finish the season 10-6 (first time we would’ve done that since 2012). The. 2019 we would’ve been 9-7 or 10-6, of course no Chase Young though and Bruce/Gruden may still be in charge. I think we’d be 2-2 if Alex was healthy and our QB right now. Edited October 9, 2020 by turtle28 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offbyone Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 29 minutes ago, aceinthehouse said: It's all in the head, gentleman. Haskins has the physical tools. He just doesn't have it upstairs. Whether that's a confidence issue, processing the playbook, phycological issue or reaction time. Who knows? What I do know... Is a lesser talented QB, can play better if he has that going for him. Look no further than Ryan Fitzmagic... Dude scored a 50 (perfect) on his wonderlic test & went to Harvard I believe. Is he more talented than Haskins? Heck no But he knows how to play QB affectively & can be thrown in the game without any preparation & succeed. Unfortunately, his lack of talent creeps up on him & mistakes occur. Let's hope Allen has it upstairs. No doubt. And physical tools are not coachable. But guess what, the mental ones are. Unfortunately, Haskins' has not been lucky enough to work with a coach who is willing to put that time and commitment into him. Callahan/KoC showed that results could be procured from Haskins with some minimal investment. Rivera doesn't seem to have the patience for it. More than likely, that leaves Haskins as a "what if" story in the nfl. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKnight82 Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 Just now, offbyone said: No doubt. And physical tools are not coachable. But guess what, the mental ones are. Unfortunately, Haskins' has not been lucky enough to work with a coach who is willing to put that time and commitment into him. Callahan/KoC showed that results could be procured from Haskins with some minimal investment. Rivera doesn't seem to have the patience for it. More than likely, that leaves Haskins as a "what if" story in the nfl. Effort is not coachable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavar703 Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 1 hour ago, aceinthehouse said: I don't add Kirk... Baugh wins Championships Theisman win SB Jurgensen has Hof type career Cousins chokes when the game is on the line... Cousins is somewhere between Billy Kilmer & Heath Shuler... No scratch that...Kilmer at least play for us in a SB. Somewhere between Jeff George & Stan Humphries... That's where Cousins belongs Sorry Ace, this is stupid. Kirk is far and away the closest thing we’ve had to a franchise guy since Theisman and he’s a good QB. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offbyone Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 5 minutes ago, MKnight82 said: Effort is not coachable. This narrative just reeks of bs. So he put all the effort in during the offseason, training camp and then got lazy for 3 weeks. Why did they wait 3 weeks to tell him he wasn't doing enough? Although I guess that lines up with Rivera testing people rather than helping them grow. Haskins is a kid. He needs to mature. We can all see that he actually did make some significant strides in that. He had a long way to go. But you can coach this. It isn't hard to say this is what I need you to do. It seems like Rivera wants Haskins to just figure it out. I thought that is why we have Head Coach, Offensive Coordinator, QB Coach, etc. Haskins may have failed to a degree on his end, but Rivera should look in the mirror. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 (edited) Ok, I’m open up to the idea that Kyle Allen can be a serviceable starter, I still don’t think going to him in hopes that we win the division is a good idea. Our future QB who hopefully leads us back to the Super Bowl w/in the next 15 years is not on this roster, he’s either on another team (Darnold/Jameis) or most likely in college right now (Lawrence, Fields, Lance, Trask). Edited October 9, 2020 by turtle28 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKnight82 Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 1 minute ago, offbyone said: This narrative just reeks of bs. So he put all the effort in during the offseason, training camp and then got lazy for 3 weeks. Why did they wait 3 weeks to tell him he wasn't doing enough? Although I guess that lines up with Rivera testing people rather than helping them grow. Haskins is a kid. He needs to mature. We can all see that he actually did make some significant strides in that. He had a long way to go. But you can coach this. It isn't hard to say this is what I need you to do. It seems like Rivera wants Haskins to just figure it out. I thought that is why we have Head Coach, Offensive Coordinator, QB Coach, etc. Haskins may have failed to a degree on his end, but Rivera should look in the mirror. Its so frustrating in today's world, and I'm not blaming you, but no one believes any news sources anymore. The distrust has developed for several reasons, but this is what I know. I know there was an article in a reputable paper claiming that Haskins was not putting in the effort that other players were. I know Michael Lombardi was on a podcast this week talking about how Haskins acted unprofessional during a camp he had held. I know that a Head Coach known for being a pretty stand up guy just took this QB from 1st string to 4th string overnight. You are right that Haskins is just a kid. But this isn't high school football, he's a professional being paid millions of dollars to work on his craft. If he wasn't taking that seriously enough, I fully support moving on from him. There is a long line of QBs willing to work their tail off for a starting position in the NFL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 6 minutes ago, offbyone said: This narrative just reeks of bs. So he put all the effort in during the offseason, training camp and then got lazy for 3 weeks. Why did they wait 3 weeks to tell him he wasn't doing enough? Although I guess that lines up with Rivera testing people rather than helping them grow. Haskins is a kid. He needs to mature. We can all see that he actually did make some significant strides in that. He had a long way to go. But you can coach this. It isn't hard to say this is what I need you to do. It seems like Rivera wants Haskins to just figure it out. I thought that is why we have Head Coach, Offensive Coordinator, QB Coach, etc. Haskins may have failed to a degree on his end, but Rivera should look in the mirror. Effort is coachable and better study and work ethic are coachable especially when you expected to be the answer at QB when you were drafted for this franchise and now two HCs & OCs are trelling you that you have to change that if you want to be the answer and long term starter for this franchise or any other and that can change and improve in anyone when you have something taken away from you that you wanted so bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offbyone Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 38 minutes ago, MKnight82 said: Its so frustrating in today's world, and I'm not blaming you, but no one believes any news sources anymore. The distrust has developed for several reasons, but this is what I know. I know there was an article in a reputable paper claiming that Haskins was not putting in the effort that other players were. I know Michael Lombardi was on a podcast this week talking about how Haskins acted unprofessional during a camp he had held. I know that a Head Coach known for being a pretty stand up guy just took this QB from 1st string to 4th string overnight. You are right that Haskins is just a kid. But this isn't high school football, he's a professional being paid millions of dollars to work on his craft. If he wasn't taking that seriously enough, I fully support moving on from him. There is a long line of QBs willing to work their tail off for a starting position in the NFL. I don't believe new sources that are based on anonymous sources. The redskins have a history of pushing bs into the media to manipulate situations. I think a better question is based on the history of this organization which you know so well, why on earth would you believe this is the true story? All Rivera had to do was gently say Haskins needs to work harder mentally. He never said that. Now we have leaks and all this crap. Rivera made sure his big coaches meeting with Haskins right before the baltimore game was public. So obviously he has no problem making this stuff public. Why did Rivera allow this for 4 weeks if this was a problem? Rivera has been a picture of inconsistency. Rivera has failed on two counts here. 1)He failed on the coaching side to coach him up and set Haskins up to succeed. 2)He failed as a GM to manage a team resource properly. Haskins is obviously a guy that needs real coaching in every aspect of the game. The coaching staff seems like they don't want to make that investment. They didn't draft him. They aren't personally invested in him. So they don't want to put the effort in. Fine, but the problem is they are burning a washington resource. If this was Rivera's stance, he should have traded him in the offseason or at least not diminished his value with how he did all this. We will be lucky to get a 4th round pick out of Haskins now. Rivera needs to understand that being coach/gm means he needs to manage resources better. See Sean Davis. Or Peterson. If we held onto peterson for a couple weeks, we could have traded him. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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