offbyone Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 Ah this might be Kyle Allen's last good game against this fractured and badly schemed Dallas defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 5 hours ago, offbyone said: Ah this might be Kyle Allen's last good game against this fractured and badly schemed Dallas defense. You mean average game? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offbyone Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 (edited) 7 hours ago, turtle28 said: You mean average game? Well you know besides the interceptions (sarcasm) Edited October 23, 2020 by offbyone 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 (edited) 15 hours ago, offbyone said: Well you know besides the interceptions (sarcasm) In all honesty, I don’t mind Kyle Allen, but my feeling towards him is the same I had towards Rex Grossman. Some fans like the gunslinger mentality in both of them - as do I - but, I’m not willing to put up with a turnover or two per start from my starting QB even if they throw for over 250 yards a game and a TD or 2 per game. Let’s just go back to Kirk’s first few years with the team. The main knock on Kirk was turnovers. It was my main knock on him in 2013 & 14 and until he mostly fixed that issue in 2015 and since. Before the "you like that game," I didn’t think Kirk could be anything more than a back up QB for Washington or anyone else. I haven’t seen Kyle Allen be able to turn the tide on turnovers yet, and admittedly we need a larger sample size to see if he can but, until I see him go through a stretch of games with little to no turnovers I can’t endorse him as someone I want as anything other than a back up for Washington. Again, I like his mobility, ability to throw rather accurately on the run and his arm strength but he needs to improve his accuracy and decrease his turnovers. I'm open to the idea that Kyle turns it around and grows over the last 10 games of the season - just as I was with Haskins - but I need to see it. I hope I do. I have to say, if Kyle cuts down on the turnovers we may really have a shot at the division and he may look like an answer for us at QB like Ace wants so badly but I think we are a far far way from that. Like I said before, I’m open to the idea that Kyle becomes Kirk of 2015 and flips a switch where he cuts down on the bad decisions and turnovers and we start winning games with him but I don’t actually believe it will happen yet. Edited October 23, 2020 by turtle28 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offbyone Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 1 hour ago, turtle28 said: In all honesty, I don’t mind Kyle Allen, but my feeling towards him is the same I had towards Rex Grossman. Some fans like the gunslinger mentality in both of them - as do I - but, I’m not willing to put up with a turnover or two per start from my starting QB even if they throw for over 250 yards a game and a TD or 2 per game. Let’s just go back to Kirk’s first few years with the team. The main knock on Kirk was turnovers. It was my main knock on him in 2013 & 14 and until he mostly fixed that issue in 2015 and since I didn’t think he could be anything more than a back up QB for Washington or anyone else. I haven’t seen Kyle Allen be able to turn the tide on turnovers yet, and admittedly we need a larger sample size to see if he can but, until I see him go through a stretch of games with little to no turnovers I can’t endorse him as someone I want as anything other than a back up for Washington. Again, I like his mobility, ability to throw rather accurately on the run and his arm strength but he needs to improve his accuracy and decrease his turnovers. I open to the idea that Kyle turns it around and grows over the last 10 games of the season - just as I was with Haskins - but I need to see it. I hope I do. I have to say, if Kyle cuts down on the turnovers we may really have a shot at the division and he may look like an answer for us at QB like Ace wants so badly but I think we are a far far way from that. Like I said before, I’m open to the idea that he becomes Kirk of 2015 and flip a switch where he cuts down on the bad decisions and turnovers and we start winning games with him but I don’t actually believe it will happen yet. I generally agree. I don't have a problem with Allen either. I just am aggravated that we are investing into a guy who, if succeeds, takes us to the land of average. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 (edited) 44 minutes ago, offbyone said: I generally agree. I don't have a problem with Allen either. I just am aggravated that we are investing into a guy who, if succeeds, takes us to the land of average. Well I don't really think Allen's celling is that low. If we fix the left side of our OL, keep Roullier and Scherff in March, get a starting caliber TE & #2 WR and sure up our LB & safeties next off-season, I don't see any reason why a QB who throws for around 4,000 yds, 25 TDs a year can't have us more than average. The key for Allen though is not turning the ball over. If he can develop into a 25 plus TD QB and throw less than 15 ints a year we could have something but I don't see that yet. Allen is going to have to prove he isn't a turnover machine over the last 10 games of this year otherwise Rivera is going to have no choice but to draft Fields or Lance in the top 5 next April. I'dlove for Allen to continue to throw for 250 yards plus and a TD or 2 the rest of this season and have less than 10 turnovers the final 10 games, then we can draft Sewell, Chase or Parsons in the top 5 but I don't actually think Allen will cut down the turnovers that much and we'll end up taking Fields with our top 3 pick. Edited October 23, 2020 by turtle28 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavar703 Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 Allen is what he is. He’s been in the league for three years and has plenty of starts and it’s just not progressing. What you see now is what you get. He’s a good back up but we’ll have Lawrence, Lance or Fields on this roster next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, lavar703 said: Allen is what he is. He’s been in the league for three years and has plenty of starts and it’s just not progressing. What you see now is what you get. He’s a good back up but we’ll have Lawrence, Lance or Fields on this roster next year. Most likely this is the case, buy just as with Kirk in 2015 we’ll have no way of knowing the answer until we see him play out the season. I would say Kyle has progressed from being a UDFA in 2017, but has he and will be progress to the point to where he’s anything more than a Rex Grossman type/good back up? That remains to be seen over these last 10 games. I do lean towards your side, but I’m just not sure yet. I don’t know how anyone can be sold that he’s going to play well enough to definitely lead us to 7 or 8 wins, that seems extremely far fetched. Edited October 24, 2020 by turtle28 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavar703 Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 2 hours ago, turtle28 said: Most likely this is the case, buy just as with Kirk in 2015 we’ll have no way of knowing the answer until we see him play out the season. I would say Kyle has progressed from being a UDFA in 2017, but has he and will be progress to the point to where he’s anything more than a Rex Grossman type/good back up? That remains to be seen over these last 10 games. I do lean towards your side, but I’m just not sure yet. I don’t know how anyone can be sold that he’s going to play well enough to definitely lead us to 7 or 8 wins, that seems extremely far fetched. I hate that people keep bringing up Kirk when talking about Allen. It’s just not a similar situation. Kirk was a collegiate star and Allen got benched everywhere he went. Kirk was just much further along as a passer and field general. I just don’t see it with Allen. He’s not terrible but he’s not Kirk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 1 minute ago, lavar703 said: I hate that people keep bringing up Kirk when talking about Allen. It’s just not a similar situation. Kirk was a collegiate star and Allen got benched everywhere he went. Kirk was just much further along as a passer and field general. I just don’t see it with Allen. He’s not terrible but he’s not Kirk. I just see their arm talents being similar. No doubt he has a long way to go. I think Kirk is Kyle’s ceiling but Kyle likely won’t become that consistent as a QB. Who would you compare him to? I guess I could see a Case Keenum, Ryan Fitzpatrick or Rex Grossman type comparison being more equivalent. I don’t actually think Kyle will get to Kirk’s level but it’s possible. I don’t know how we can say it definitely won’t happen when Kyle Allen hasn’t even started a full 16 games in the NFL yet and he’s just going into his 3rd start this year. Seeing Kyle Allen play just takes me back to the end of 2013, the first half of 2014 & the first half of 2015 when Kirk was starting. There’s something there but he has a propensity to make a few bad reads or push it downfield when it’s not there and when something underneath is more open. Also, ball security was an issue for Kirk when he got sacked - and still is when he gets sacked - and that was an issue for Kyle Allen last year and last week. I could totally be wrong but there’s a possibility Kyle Allen takes the next step in development, becomes more consistent over the last 10 games of this year and throws for 15 TDs with less than 10 ints the rest of the way. Regardless of what Kyle Allen does though, I don’t see our team winning more than 5 games - if that - and we’ll be picking in the top 5 next April and take Fields or Lance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavar703 Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 Kyle Allen is a Matt Moore/Nick Mullens type. Just can’t be counted on to be a starter. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naptownskinsfan Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 On 10/22/2020 at 12:48 PM, offbyone said: Ah this might be Kyle Allen's last good game against this fractured and badly schemed Dallas defense. A defense coached by Mike Nolan? Never in a million years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e16bball Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 13 hours ago, lavar703 said: I hate that people keep bringing up Kirk when talking about Allen. It’s just not a similar situation. Kirk was a collegiate star and Allen got benched everywhere he went. Kirk was just much further along as a passer and field general. I just don’t see it with Allen. He’s not terrible but he’s not Kirk. I’m no Kyle Allen supporter, but this isn’t really true. I’ve mentioned it again recently, but people seem to forget how bad Cousins was during his first few NFL seasons. Allen (Years 1 to 3): 63.1%, 6.9 Y/A, 21 TDs, 18 INTs, 83.1 passer rating, 6-9 record Cousins (Years 1 to 3): 59.0%, 7.4 Y/A, 18 TDs, 19 INTs, 77.5 passer rating, 2-7 record Worth noting that Cousins was also two years older than Allen as a rookie, so he was age 24-26 compared to age 22-24 for those seasons. Allen would have to make a big jump to turn into “prime” Cousins (a legit top 15 QB) — but in fairness, Cousins himself had to make a huge jump to become “prime” Cousins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavar703 Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 5 hours ago, e16bball said: I’m no Kyle Allen supporter, but this isn’t really true. I’ve mentioned it again recently, but people seem to forget how bad Cousins was during his first few NFL seasons. Allen (Years 1 to 3): 63.1%, 6.9 Y/A, 21 TDs, 18 INTs, 83.1 passer rating, 6-9 record Cousins (Years 1 to 3): 59.0%, 7.4 Y/A, 18 TDs, 19 INTs, 77.5 passer rating, 2-7 record Worth noting that Cousins was also two years older than Allen as a rookie, so he was age 24-26 compared to age 22-24 for those seasons. Allen would have to make a big jump to turn into “prime” Cousins (a legit top 15 QB) — but in fairness, Cousins himself had to make a huge jump to become “prime” Cousins. The funny thing is I knew you were going to respond with this lol. I’m not speaking to stats though E. Just as far as watching them both play as I got to watch some panther games last year, I feel Cousins was further along. The numbers may not support that but from watching both Cousins seemed like the better, more pro ready talent. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woz Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 On 10/24/2020 at 10:58 AM, turtle28 said: On 10/24/2020 at 9:41 AM, lavar703 said: Allen is what he is. He’s been in the league for three years and has plenty of starts and it’s just not progressing. What you see now is what you get. He’s a good back up but we’ll have Lawrence, Lance or Fields on this roster next year. Most likely this is the case, buy just as with Kirk in 2015 we’ll have no way of knowing the answer until we see him play out the season. I would say Kyle has progressed from being a UDFA in 2017, but has he and will be progress to the point to where he’s anything more than a Rex Grossman type/good back up? That remains to be seen over these last 10 games. I do lean towards your side, but I’m just not sure yet. I don’t know how anyone can be sold that he’s going to play well enough to definitely lead us to 7 or 8 wins, that seems extremely far fetched. Wait wait wait ... we're now back to focusing on whether the young QBs can develop? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.