offbyone Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 13 hours ago, e16bball said: I’m no Kyle Allen supporter, but this isn’t really true. I’ve mentioned it again recently, but people seem to forget how bad Cousins was during his first few NFL seasons. Allen (Years 1 to 3): 63.1%, 6.9 Y/A, 21 TDs, 18 INTs, 83.1 passer rating, 6-9 record Cousins (Years 1 to 3): 59.0%, 7.4 Y/A, 18 TDs, 19 INTs, 77.5 passer rating, 2-7 record Worth noting that Cousins was also two years older than Allen as a rookie, so he was age 24-26 compared to age 22-24 for those seasons. Allen would have to make a big jump to turn into “prime” Cousins (a legit top 15 QB) — but in fairness, Cousins himself had to make a huge jump to become “prime” Cousins. I would also point out that for his first two years Cousins had to play for the WFT which is a huge disadvantage. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e16bball Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 (edited) 9 hours ago, lavar703 said: The funny thing is I knew you were going to respond with this lol. I’m not speaking to stats though E. Just as far as watching them both play as I got to watch some panther games last year, I feel Cousins was further along. The numbers may not support that but from watching both Cousins seemed like the better, more pro ready talent. I hear you. I wish I had ever watched Allen last year when he was playing well early on, all I saw were a few of the games towards the end (especially against us) where he had devolved into unplayable territory again. From what I’ve watched, he does appear to show less upside than young Cousins did. Young Cousins always seemed to have that aggressive “push-the-ball-down-the-field” mentality, which you do also see reflected in his numbers. Part of that probably came from the fact that he was juxtaposed against post-injury RG3, who was so uncomfortable as a forced pocket passer that he would hold the ball and/or quickly check it down painfully frequently. In some ways, I think we’re experiencing that now with Allen, by comparison to Haskins. What I don’t see with Allen is too much of the downfield precision that we saw in flashes from young Cousins. Allen has made some really nice throws, but young Cousins would intermingle some periods of really sustained downfield accuracy and chunk play success with his signature bonehead plays. I don’t see that with Allen — his accuracy numbers seem to be inflated by the sheer volume of short/easy throws they’re calling for him, and I’m not seeing him string together the great downfield throws like young Cousins did. I still have to agree with Turtle that Cousins is probably Allen’s ceiling. If all goes right for him, he could probably be what Cousins is now. I don’t think he’ll get there, but that’s his high-end outcome. But in some ways, that probably just speaks to my disdain for Cousins. A “ceiling of Cousins,” to me, means a one way ticket to “too good to get rid of, not good enough to contend” purgatory for the entirety of the time he’s your QB. We’re probably (much) better off if Allen does fall flat, honestly. A poor man’s Cousins could eat up a few years with mediocrity and sporadic good games/plays that leave you tantalized and thinking the big breakthrough is right around the corner. Edited October 25, 2020 by e16bball 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aceinthehouse Posted October 26, 2020 Share Posted October 26, 2020 (edited) e16 & Lavar talking about Cousins... Allen may not be the better talented QB, guys. But I bet he's a gamer. I bet he can win big games when they count. I bet he won't be 3-378 vs winning teams throughout his career. And that, I would rather have under Center. Not a stat padder & choker... Edited October 26, 2020 by aceinthehouse 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naptownskinsfan Posted October 26, 2020 Share Posted October 26, 2020 2 minutes ago, aceinthehouse said: e16 & Lavar talking about Cousins... Allen may not be the better talented QB, guys. But I bet he's a gamer. I bet he can win big games when they count. I bet he won't be 3-378 vs winning teams throughout his career. And that, I would rather have under Center. Not a stat padder & choker... Allen quit on two seperate college football programs. He's not a gamer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aceinthehouse Posted October 26, 2020 Share Posted October 26, 2020 8 minutes ago, naptownskinsfan said: Allen quit on two seperate college football programs. He's not a gamer. Cousins quit on Washington. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naptownskinsfan Posted October 26, 2020 Share Posted October 26, 2020 1 minute ago, aceinthehouse said: Cousins quit on Washington. Wouldn't you after the typical Washington franchise character assassination? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted October 26, 2020 Share Posted October 26, 2020 35 minutes ago, aceinthehouse said: Cousins quit on Washington. Cousins didn’t quit on Washington, they didn’t re-sign him. Washington wasn’t worth Cousins’s services. Washington has only won 11 games in 2 & 2/3 seasons since your hero’s Dan Snyder and Bruce Allen let Kirk Cousins - the best QB the team has had since Joe Theisman - walk away from their Organization for nothing. That’s gross negligence as management. And last time I checked Kirk Cousins won a playoff game last year in New Orleans- the hardest place to play a road game in the league - and Washington hasn’t won a playoff game since 2005-06. But hey, who wants a QB who throws for 4000 yards and near 30 TDs every year who just won a playoff game as their QB when they could have Colt McCoy, Mark Sanchez, Josh Johnson, Case Keenum, Dwayne Haskins and Kyle Allen? I mean... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vladimir L Posted October 26, 2020 Share Posted October 26, 2020 2 hours ago, turtle28 said: Cousins didn’t quit on Washington, they didn’t re-sign him. Washington wasn’t worth Cousins’s services. Washington has only won 11 games in 2 & 2/3 seasons since your hero’s Dan Snyder and Bruce Allen let Kirk Cousins - the best QB the team has had since Joe Theisman - walk away from their Organization for nothing. That’s gross negligence as management. And last time I checked Kirk Cousins won a playoff game last year in New Orleans- the hardest place to play a road game in the league - and Washington hasn’t won a playoff game since 2005-06. But hey, who wants a QB who throws for 4000 yards and near 30 TDs every year who just won a playoff game as their QB when they could have Colt McCoy, Mark Sanchez, Josh Johnson, Case Keenum, Dwayne Haskins and Kyle Allen? I mean... ill go drink bleach now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mar29020 Posted October 26, 2020 Share Posted October 26, 2020 4 hours ago, naptownskinsfan said: Allen quit on two seperate college football programs. He's not a gamer. yet here he is starting for a NFL team winning football games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naptownskinsfan Posted October 26, 2020 Share Posted October 26, 2020 3 hours ago, mar29020 said: yet here he is starting for a NFL team winning football games. Look at his history. He starts well, and then flames out. I'd love to be wrong, but two college programs and one NFL team worth of history and I'm comfortable calling a spade a spade at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeT14 Posted October 26, 2020 Share Posted October 26, 2020 4 hours ago, mar29020 said: yet here he is starting for a NFL team winning football games. Winning a game*. Against an awful team. *so far Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offbyone Posted October 26, 2020 Share Posted October 26, 2020 5 hours ago, MikeT14 said: Winning a game*. Against an awful team. *so far Yep. Allen appears to be a fine backup, but if there was a game that should show us he is not a franchise qb, it was yesterday. We played against an all time bad defense that we were able to completely dominate. Considering that, can anyone come up with one ball he threw that made you think Allen was special? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aceinthehouse Posted October 26, 2020 Share Posted October 26, 2020 This was Allen's 16th start of his career. Not much more playing time than Haskins. We are now 56% on 3rd down, instead of 33% like the first 4 games. Look, I'm a numbers guy. Numbers tell me more, than just what I see on the field. Is Allen our new Franchise QB? Probably not, but I think he definitely could be a good backup for us. What this does tell me? Either Haskins needs to sit & learn for a couple years on the bench, or he just isn't any good for the NFL. One thing is certain...Rivera trading for Kyle Allen when he got here, was the best move of the off-season. We actually might not suck, with Allen at QB. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naptownskinsfan Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 6 hours ago, offbyone said: Yep. Allen appears to be a fine backup, but if there was a game that should show us he is not a franchise qb, it was yesterday. We played against an all time bad defense that we were able to completely dominate. Considering that, can anyone come up with one ball he threw that made you think Allen was special? I will give credit to Allen being a good backup. Remember how bad we were after we relied on Buttfumble and Josh Johnson, and it's nice to have a QB who knows the system. I just don't see Allen having any sort of long-term outlook here, and we shouldn't be in a position to play him to try and win games. It should be about developing talent, Haskins and others included. I get that Haskins wasn't doing what they expected, but hell, you can't tell me he deserves the bench but Bostic keeps replacing Holcomb after Holcomb makes plays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offbyone Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 18 minutes ago, naptownskinsfan said: I will give credit to Allen being a good backup. Remember how bad we were after we relied on Buttfumble and Josh Johnson, and it's nice to have a QB who knows the system. I just don't see Allen having any sort of long-term outlook here, and we shouldn't be in a position to play him to try and win games. It should be about developing talent, Haskins and others included. I get that Haskins wasn't doing what they expected, but hell, you can't tell me he deserves the bench but Bostic keeps replacing Holcomb after Holcomb makes plays. My point as well. Allen tops out as a bottom half of the league starter. Passable, but that is it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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