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RSkinGM

Kyle Allen Your New Starter

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8 minutes ago, RSkinGM said:

AND taking the sack on third down. I thought L Thomas open right in front of him over the middle. Short of the goal but a nice gain .

He’s a young QB, they will make mistakes. Kyle Allen made more mistakes last year, beat reporters said he was awful in August, way worse than Haskins. 

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Posted (edited)

On another note, Daniel Jones is now 3-13 as an NFL starter, with an 82.2 rating in those starts, 6.46 Y/A, and 26 TDs to go with 29 turnovers (17 INTs and 12 lost fumbles). During that time, he’s had each of the following players on the field with him for at least some portion of those games: Saquon Barkley, Evan Engram, Golden Tate, Darius Slayton, Sterling Shepard, Andrew Thomas, Nate Solder, Kevin Zeitler, Will Hernandez. 

Dwayne Haskins is 3-8 as an NFL starter, with an 83.2 rating in those starts, 6.62 Y/A, and 11 TDs to go with 9 turnovers. I went ahead and bolded each of the categories where Haskins has been better. We all know the personnel he’s had to work with since he got here, let’s just say it doesn’t quite measure up to the talent Jones has had and leave it at that. 

Not a word about benching Daniel Jones. Who plays in MF New York, supposedly the “bright lights” capital of the world. How can this be? Well, I think there are a few reasons. One of them is that Jones’s style of play is at least exciting, so the fact that they keep losing because he can’t take care of the ball or make the easy passes is offset to some degree by the deep bombs and long QB runs that keep things entertaining and keep you dreaming. Better that than the drudgery we’ve seen from Haskins in this offense (and the Callahan offense), perhaps. 

But the big reason, of course, is just this garbage can franchise. Jones isn’t on the hot seat because the Giants have not said or done anything that would start a fire crackling under his seat. They drafted him, they did so with the understanding that it takes a while to develop a young pocket passer, from day one they set about bringing in players to make his life easier, and they have not said a word to the media to start or fuel any sort of speculation about his status. He’s the guy, he’s the future, they’re building around him while he grows, everyone understands that, and there’s never any controversy to drum up out of it. 

Our franchise has handled Haskins in the completely opposite way. Basically since the word “go.” They’ve undermined him, they’ve jerked him around, they’ve embarrassed him multiple times, they’ve had him trying to execute 4 schemes in his 11 starts — including the most recent one that is conceptually totally different than the prior three — and they’ve given him basically no talent to work with. Moreover, they’ve made absolutely no effort to get him talent to work with.

This is why the Giants have won as many Super Bowls as we’ve won playoff games since Snyder took over. They have at least a basic, functioning understanding of the ideas of stability and patience and consistency and remaining on message. I had desperately hoped Rivera would bring some of that to this franchise. Clearly that has not been the case. What a disappointment. 

Edited by e16bball
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@e16bball also, don’t dismiss the fact that Jones was drafted by Gettleman, Haskins isn’t Rivera’s guy. They see 4 QBs in next year’s draft they view as better QB prospects than Dwayne Haskins.

I can accept that after a full 16 games and if Dwayne doesn’t improve over the the final 12 games, I can’t accept the move now.

It’s an awful decision right now. Everything about it is wrong:

1. You’re not fully evaluating Dwayne in your offense for even an entire season.

2. You’re also going to end up trading Dwayne - presumably next February, March or April - at a low point in his stock.

Just a dumb move all the way around. I hope Kyle proves us wrong, but I don’t expect it.

I expect we’ll be drafting Lawrence, Fields, Lance or Trask in the top 5 next April.

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33 minutes ago, e16bball said:

But the big reason, of course, is just this garbage can franchise.

The reason Daniel Jones is still starting is because the GM that drafted him is still in charge.  

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There just has to be more to this move. I get it, Haskins failed your test last week of throwing into the endzone on 4th and goal (although not kicking the FG to make it a 2 possession game was the real mistake), but come on man he did not play a terrible game. Sure he played awfully safe and did not do anything special, but at this point we are not competing for a ring.... let Haskins play and develop more and learn the offense and take shots down field using his big arm, worst case he continues to stink it up and we draft a QB in round 1 or sign one and replace him. Kyle Allen is not the answer, a solid backup for injury purposes? ABSOLUTELY, but not the future of the franchise. It is a slap in the teams face to bench a guy who was named captain by the rest of the team. Rant aside.... there has to be something more to this, maybe Rivera had a sit down with Haskins and Haskins immaturity was on full display or there was a disagreement. Regardless as a franchise, we have handled the Haskins situation poorly ever since drafting him and you have to feel for the guy.

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1 hour ago, Thaiphoon said:

Still. If Ron was going after his QB in 2021, then the smart move was to develop Dwayne as much as possible to increase his value.

If Haskins isn't their guy isn't it better to put Allen in to see if he could be good?  Or more probable, wouldn't it be better to have someone who knows the offense better so we can evaluate the rest of the offense properly?  

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37 minutes ago, e16bball said:

On another note, Daniel Jones is now 3-13 as an NFL starter, with an 82.2 rating in those starts, 6.46 Y/A, and 26 TDs to go with 29 turnovers (17 INTs and 12 lost fumbles). During that time, he’s had each of the following players on the field with him for at least some portion of those games: Saquon Barkley, Evan Engram, Golden Tate, Darius Slayton, Sterling Shepard, Andrew Thomas, Nate Solder, Kevin Zeitler, Will Hernandez. 

Dwayne Haskins is 3-8 as an NFL starter, with an 83.2 rating in those starts, 6.62 Y/A, and 11 TDs to go with 9 turnovers. I went ahead and bolded each of the categories where Haskins has been better. We all know the personnel he’s had to work with since he got here, let’s just say it doesn’t quite measure up to the talent Jones has had and leave it at that. 

Not a word about benching Daniel Jones. Who plays in MF New York, supposedly the “bright lights” capital of the world. How can this be? Well, I think there are a few reasons. One of them I can’t discuss here. One of them is that Jones’s style of play is at least exciting, so the fact that they keep losing because he can’t take care of the ball or make the easy passes is offset to some degree by the deep bombs and long QB runs that keep things entertaining and keep you dreaming. Better that than the drudgery we’ve seen from Haskins in this offense (and the Callahan offense), perhaps. 

But the big reason, of course, is just this garbage can franchise. Jones isn’t on the hot seat because the Giants have not said or done anything that would start a fire crackling under his seat. They drafted him, they did so with the understanding that it takes a while to develop a young pocket passer, from day one they set about bringing in players to make his life easier, and they have not said a word to the media to start or fuel any sort of speculation about his status. He’s the guy, he’s the future, they’re building around him while he grows, everyone understands that, and there’s never any controversy to drum up out of it. 

Our franchise has handled Haskins in the completely opposite way. Basically since the word “go.” They’ve undermined him, they’ve jerked him around, they’ve embarrassed him multiple times, they’ve had him trying to execute 4 schemes in his 11 starts — including the most recent one that is conceptually totally different than the prior three — and they’ve given him basically no talent to work with. Moreover, they’ve made absolutely no effort to get him talent to work with.

This is why the Giants have won as many Super Bowls as we’ve won playoff games since Snyder took over. They have at least a basic, functioning understanding of the ideas of stability and patience and consistency and remaining on message. I had desperately hoped Rivera would bring some of that to this franchise. Clearly that has not been the case. What a disappointment. 

Honestly. Only bad post Ive seen you make in a decade.

But every week Haskins has been developing more bad habits. He needs to wake up out of them. Like I said before, to bad he doesnt have Rex Grossman as a mentor like Cousins did instead of Mr Checkdown Alex Smith. Haskins had become scared to sling it down field unless down. And he feels phantom pressure, forcing the ball away even when he has time. Continuing to play him like that only hurts. Hes been rattled and cant develop under these circumstances. Look at this like its been done for his own good. Theres no way he can progress when that Rams DL is up next. Its hurting his development to leave him out there.

 

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2 minutes ago, PARROTHEAD said:

Honestly. Only bad post Ive seen you make in a decade.

How's that? Everything he said about DJ is true. 

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Just now, MikeT14 said:

How's that? Everything he said about DJ is true. 

1 certain line disgusted me and hes better than to stoop there.

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1 minute ago, MikeT14 said:

How's that? Everything he said about DJ is true. 

Daniel Jones is terrible.  Comparing Haskins to Jones just supports the benching.  

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Posted (edited)

This a very irrational and ill advised decision. Rivera you better hope this works b/c if not you are  looking at a immediate hot seat  buddy and you just arrived here. This should make those here who have been very critical of Haskin happy. The growing pains was to much for them. BUT I EXPECTED THIS FROM THE VERY BEGINNING a season of growing pains. So now Haskin is on the bench now. I hope Allen performs well but he is rusty at least he knows the system but my point is clear here. Riviera should have let Haskins sit  from the very beginning and let him learn. Benching him after games no!!!!! Stay the course. Haskin performed well in his last outing well at least to me he did.  This is what so disturbing to me.  On a positive note Rivera is surely taking note of how bad  The NFL EAST is right now and could very well be the centerpiece of his decision making. 

Edited by 4209
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While I’m ranting, if it was so clear that they weren’t believers in Haskins — which must be the case, as they’ve now ended his tenure here after 4 whole games — why not go ahead and take Tua in the draft when they had the chance?

I love Chase Young, but nothing trumps franchise QB at the top of the draft if you don’t have one. And Tua was a legit top pick type prospect. 

Now, we’re in a position where we will clearly be needing to draft a QB this year if we can. Which will be fine if we’re picking high enough to get Lawrence. But we probably won’t be. I wouldn’t wager much money on even being in position to draft Fields, who (at the moment at least) I have as a lesser prospect than Tua. Our division is so bad that we’re likely to pick up another couple wins, plus the defense will probably prove to be reasonably decent enough to keep us in games against other teams that we really shouldn’t beat. 

As I’ve been saying all along, there’s just this lack of coherence in the plan. There’s no overall long term vision or overarching plan that’s guiding them. It’s all these ad hoc decisions, playing things by ear, making each choice in a vacuum, etc. When you operate like that, your decisions start to look random and your strategy incoherent. Which is where they are now. If your choice was to pass on Tua and go with Haskins, okay. Cool. Then actually go with Haskins. Give him the season (or more) to prove whether he can or he can’t. 

But if you were so uninterested or uninvested in Haskins that 4 subpar games in a new system with no talent and no legitimate offseason/preseason would be enough to pull the plug — how do you not just take Tua and pull the plug then, before going through the motions for a few games?

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35 minutes ago, PARROTHEAD said:

1 certain line disgusted me and hes better than to stoop there.

Yeah, I shouldn’t have gone there. I just edited it out of the post. Regardless of whether I think it’s true, it’s not the sort of thing I should have been obliquely hinting at around here. 

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