Kyle Allen Your New Starter

[e16bball]

And in response to the overall sentiment of your post, I’m not really even defending Haskins specifically. I’ve been quite critical of his play thus far this season. What I’m defending is the concept of giving a young QB time and support once you’ve made the massive investment of a 1st round pick in him. The greatest idiocy this franchise has engaged in under Snyder is the constant churn of coaches and QBs. They never stick with one or the other long enough to actually figure out what they have and try to build something around them.

Use big resources to draft a QB to be the savior of a bad team. Team continues to play poorly. Fire the old coach and hire a new one to fix the QB. But that QB wasn’t hand-picked by the new coach, so he isn’t bought in and eventually cuts bait. Need a new QB, so use big resources to draft a QB to be the savior of a bad team. And the cycle all starts over again. We’ve been stuck in it for 25 years, much like Cleveland and Miami have also been.

At some point, you need to declare a guy OUR FRANCHISE QB™️. That needs to be understood and accepted by everyone involved. Then, as an organization, you need to devote all your energy, resources, and personnel moves to supporting that QB and developing him. This is a long process, and you need to commit to it. His status as OUR FRANCHISE QB™️ cannot be re-evaluated on a game-by-game basis, or even a month-by-month basis. He’s the guy until he has failed. Not until he’s struggling or until it looks like the scrub backup might be the better short-term play. That kind of inconsistent, destabilizing way of thinking about your QB is how you end up cycling through dozens of them as we have. 

[RSkinGM]

R R and Turner have worked with D H for what- about 4 months? Maybe they are convinced he can't cut it .

[MKnight82]

7 minutes ago, e16bball said:

What I’m defending is the concept of giving a young QB time and support once you’ve made the massive investment of a 1st round pick in him.

But Rivera didn't invest a 1st round pick in him.

7 minutes ago, e16bball said:

Fire the old coach and hire a new one to fix the QB.

When does that ever work?  

8 minutes ago, e16bball said:

We’ve been stuck in it for 25 years, much like Cleveland and Miami have also been.

Then shouldn't we align Rivera with a QB he wants instead of force feeding him the previous regime's?  

 

Look I get what you're saying, it would have been ideal for Haskins to work out given that we spent a 1st round pick on him.  But the reality is we should never have drafted him in the first place.  A lame duck HC and GM on his last legs should never have been allowed to select the future QB of the franchise.  

 

[RSkinGM]

1 minute ago, MKnight82 said:

But Rivera didn't invest a 1st round pick in him.

When does that ever work?  

Then shouldn't we align Rivera with a QB he wants instead of force feeding him the previous regime's?  

 

Look I get what you're saying, it would have been ideal for Haskins to work out given that we spent a 1st round pick on him.  But the reality is we should never have drafted him in the first place.  A lame duck HC and GM on his last legs should never have been allowed to select the future QB of the franchise.  

 

They didn't select him.  Dan's son did .

[ovfd55]

I just don't get it,if you told me it was to go to Alex who must be healthy enough to play if he's the #2 and you think the division is there for the taking ok I'm fine with Switching even if I don't like it.But if you are telling me you taking out !st round pick before he has even started 16 games to go to the dude who got you fired from your last job cause he could produce wins for you with guys like Mccaffery,Moore,Samuel,and Olsen with a better Oline just seems idiotic to me.

[MKnight82]

I guess another reason I'm not upset over this is that I've always viewed Haskins as the final failure of Bruce Allen, not as the first failure of Rivera.  

[MikeT14]

55 minutes ago, aceinthehouse said:

So what are you going to say, when Allen tosses 3 TD's in a victory over the Rams?

What will be the excuse for Haskins then?

What are you going to say if he doesn't?

 

[RSkinGM]

Some of you guys are way bettering at knowing the players than I. Who could we have picked from players drafted 16-32 instead of Haskins that would have been a significant upgrade ?

Edited October 7, 2020 by RSkinGM

[ovfd55]

1 minute ago, RSkinGM said:

Some of you guys are way bettering at knowing the players than I. Who could we have picked from players drafted 16-32 instead of Haskins that would have been a significate upgrade ?

I'd say no one cause don't think we get Terry if we didn't take Haskins.

But most likely It been Sweat or Brain Burns there if we didn't go QB,Trent wasn't threating at time of that draft so prob wouldn't of went Oline coulda went WR with Hollywood or DK.

[Thaiphoon]

2 hours ago, MKnight82 said:

If Haskins isn't their guy isn't it better to put Allen in to see if he could be good?  Or more probable, wouldn't it be better to have someone who knows the offense better so we can evaluate the rest of the offense properly?  

Except, as I said, this isn't an RG3 vs Tampa Bay situation where he literally couldn't play and we couldn't evaluate the rest of the offense. 

The OL was holding up as well as could be expected. You can evaluate that

The receivers were running the correct routes. You can evaluate that

The backs were running through the holes (or not running through them when the OL didn't block well). You can evaluate that

You can't evaluate the guy you spent a 1st rounder on last year if he's on the bench.

[ARTMONK HOF]

Apparently from what I read only a portion of the offensive plays are being used since Dwayne isn’t comfortable with the scheme as a whole. Who really knows the reason for the benching. 

[Thaiphoon]

1 hour ago, e16bball said:

I don’t really understand this.

They’ve already had the chance to “see if Allen could be good.” He was their starter last year. He got 13 starts in this system, in his 2nd year like Haskins currently, with better talent than we have here. He got worse and worse as time went on, and eventually they benched him for Will F. Grier. He has already gotten far more of a chance from these guys than Haskins did, despite being by every single account the less talented player of the two. 

And who are they even evaluating on offense? McLaurin is 5th in the league in receiving with Haskins, I think the eval is done there. Gibson just had 130 total yards on Sunday, is Haskins really holding him back? Allen took 46 sacks in 13 games last year, so I don’t think he’s a real learned hand at managing his pass protection. Which just leaves guys like Sims x2, Wright, JD McKissic, and Logan Thomas, none of whom anyone really cares about. Though it would be very much in keeping with Rivera’s approach thus far to bench the 1st round pick QB in order to give yourself a marginally better opportunity to evaluate a bunch of UDFA receivers.

Thank you! I just don't get the whole "we need a different QB to evaluate the rest of the offense" because they are doing just fine and we CAN evaluate them. What we CAN'T evaluate is someone not playing.

[Thaiphoon]

26 minutes ago, RSkinGM said:

Some of you guys are way bettering at knowing the players than I. Who could we have picked from players drafted 16-32 instead of Haskins that would have been a significant upgrade ?

Sweat. And we could've a) saved the 2nd round pick we had here and b) won one less game and ended up with Burrow in this draft.

[MKnight82]

25 minutes ago, RSkinGM said:

Some of you guys are way bettering at knowing the players than I. Who could we have picked from players drafted 16-32 instead of Haskins that would have been a significant upgrade ?

I think @ovfd55 is right, we probably would have just taken Sweat at 15.  But that would have opened us to take two more prospects with the 2019 2nd round pick and 2020 2nd round pick.  

Edited October 7, 2020 by MKnight82

[British]

3 hours ago, Slateman said:

This is such a DC move. 

There is zero point in this move. This isn't a competitive football team and they know that. They aren't making the playoffs and even if they did, they aren't competitive. Your head coach is literally sitting out defensive plays because of his cancer. You have a garbage offensive line.

Haskins was known to be a project. He had one year being the starter at Ohio State. It was known he needed a lot of work. Benching him does nothing to develop him at this point. He spent the majority of last season on the bench. He needs reps.

Moreover, his value is rock bottom right now. If Rivera wants to draft HIS guy, then we should be looking to maximize trade value for Haskins.

Overall, this is the bad decision, desperation move we expected under the Bruce Allen regime. Seems pretty clear that Rivera is being overwhelmed and, at the same time, being told that he has to win now.

This.

WFT ain't making the playoffs this year, and Kyle Allen is not the long term solution to winning a championship.  All this move likely does is make the 2021 draft picks worse while eradicating Haskin's confidence and trade value. 

Snyder has to be the worst owner in the NFL.