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2021 NFL Draft Thread


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2 hours ago, ripsean21 said:

I forgot Miami is right behind them that is a hard thing but you have to pick for your team not to keep away from another at the cost of doing the best thing for yours. I think the Jets could really build the front 7 on defense and build a nice OL take the future picks and really get some playmakers and maybe a QB next year if Darnold can’t preform better with better OL play and Defensive play on the other side

Well picking Smith to give Darnold a #1 target is a great thing for their team.

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7 hours ago, lavar703 said:

Lol Don’t worry E, we’ll probably be picking Mack Jones anyway 

That does seem like a decent possibility. Especially if the “Lance dropping” buzz starts to die down and he slides back up to that top 10-12 area where I think he’ll end up going. 

I could easily see Scott Turner watching Jones and considering him the ideal player to orchestrate his offense. The lack of great mobility seems like it could be an issue, given the success we’ve seen Heinicke and to an extent Allen have with the ability to take off when the play design doesn’t work, but he certainly has some accuracy and some intangibles and some ability to operate an offensive scheme effectively. 

As you and @MikeT14 both indicated, he’s a really tough guy to evaluate. It’s a lot easier to look great and pile up big numbers when your receivers are running wide open and you have all day to throw. I also think Sarkisian has schemed it up real well down there, they were just running circles around the opposing defenses all season. So we probably can’t trust too much of the production we saw from Jones, as it was the guys around him that made it possible. 

But on the other hand. The top two QBs off the board last year were Burrow and Tua. Burrow had Chase, Jefferson, Marshall, Moss, Edwards-Helaire, three OL drafted in round 4 or earlier, and future NFL HC Joe Brady. Tua had all the guys Jones has had, plus three other top 15 picks in Jerry Jeudy, Henry Ruggs, and Jedrick Wills.

Jones’s numbers with his super-team are remarkably comparable to Burrow in 2019 and Tua in 2018-19. It’s not as simple as all that of course, but if he’s on their level as a passer prospect and just not quite as athletic? You could see how a team would bite in the later 1st. 

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6 hours ago, ripsean21 said:

I’m really doing that work on Mond and this guy has every tool to be a real legit franchise QB. This guy can be a mid round steal and I think thats guy we should give a long hard look at

Outside of zack Wilson (who we have no shot at) that’s a target I want us to get.

i think a competition of Allen, Heinicke, and Mond would bring out the best in each other.

side note... I don’t know much about Trey Lance but seems He could potentially be there when we pick if Jones goes before him. Just don’t know if he’s worth the risk

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2 hours ago, LoganF89 said:

Outside of zack Wilson (who we have no shot at) that’s a target I want us to get.

i think a competition of Allen, Heinicke, and Mond would bring out the best in each other.

side note... I don’t know much about Trey Lance but seems He could potentially be there when we pick if Jones goes before him. Just don’t know if he’s worth the risk

I’m not the person to ask about Lance I love the player and I think he would have shined this season he’s just got what it takes. He does need to grow and be groomed but he’s a huge guy fast built solid and has the arm it takes and he’s not afraid to push the ball. But it’s a huge risk. But I’m a gambler I’ve always felt like he’s a Ron type QB even watching him last year without Ron as our coach.

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5 hours ago, offbyone said:

Mac Jones in first?  Yikes.  I would rather roll with Heinicke.

I would be OK with it if we used pick 18 on someone else, and then used other assets to trade back into the first near the end for Jones.  

I think it's often understated how working with some of the top minds in the game can be for a QB.  Jones isn't going to have a long learning curve.  He's also not going to a team completely devoid of talent, if we do this off-season reasonably well.  With Gibson and McLaurin, there is no need to break the bank.  We need a #2 receiver, a #2 TE, a slot WR and look at potential upgrades along the left side of the line.  

If we can solve the #2 WR in FA, draft someone for the slot (or vice versa) and solidify LG/LT a bit more, I think we should be good to go.  I would much rather spend the big contracts on the defensive side of the ball, where we have a glaring weakness up the middle.  

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13 hours ago, naptownskinsfan said:

I would be OK with it if we used pick 18 on someone else, and then used other assets to trade back into the first near the end for Jones.  

I think it's often understated how working with some of the top minds in the game can be for a QB.  Jones isn't going to have a long learning curve.  He's also not going to a team completely devoid of talent, if we do this off-season reasonably well.  With Gibson and McLaurin, there is no need to break the bank.  We need a #2 receiver, a #2 TE, a slot WR and look at potential upgrades along the left side of the line.  

If we can solve the #2 WR in FA, draft someone for the slot (or vice versa) and solidify LG/LT a bit more, I think we should be good to go.  I would much rather spend the big contracts on the defensive side of the ball, where we have a glaring weakness up the middle.  

I tend to agree with you in terms of learning curve.  But how high is Jones' ceiling?  If you draft a qb in the first, the ceiling should be high.  I think we have essentially seen the best out of him on his college team with vastly superior talent.  Would we even be having this conversation if he wasn't throwing the ball to Smith?

I guess the question I would have is how much better than Heinicke/Allen is an undersized, Jones?  If you put Heinicke/Allen on that team in college would they have lit it up too?

Maybe he has more upside than those guys as a pocket passer, but I think Rivera likes QBs who can move around a bit more and I don't think Jones fits that mold.  If he wants a pocket passer, Trask is a better prospect.

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26 minutes ago, offbyone said:

I tend to agree with you in terms of learning curve.  But how high is Jones' ceiling?  If you draft a qb in the first, the ceiling should be high.  I think we have essentially seen the best out of him on his college team with vastly superior talent.  Would we even be having this conversation if he wasn't throwing the ball to Smith?

I guess the question I would have is how much better than Heinicke/Allen is an undersized, Jones?  If you put Heinicke/Allen on that team in college would they have lit it up too?

Maybe he has more upside than those guys as a pocket passer, but I think Rivera likes QBs who can move around a bit more and I don't think Jones fits that mold.  If he wants a pocket passer, Trask is a better prospect.

I don’t agree about the Trask part. The rest is very real group of questions teams will have to figure out. But Jones can spin it. He’s faced adversity and I think coming into this year he set out to prove a point and did so. Some team will take him. I don’t personally think he’s what we’re looking for but who really knows if you fall in love with the arm talent and ball placement and his mental then you take him. I do not think Trask is the guy and I want nothing to do with him and I’ll face the criticism when he wins every week if I have too but I don’t see a guy who handles pressure well or a guy who owes you. I’m sure he will jump off the board in a interview and on the Ax’s and O’s on the white board and retention terms but I just don’t think he is they type of guy your winning playoff games with. Unless you have a Super team and those don’t last but a year or two under the salary cap.

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1 hour ago, ripsean21 said:

I don’t agree about the Trask part. The rest is very real group of questions teams will have to figure out. But Jones can spin it. He’s faced adversity and I think coming into this year he set out to prove a point and did so. Some team will take him. I don’t personally think he’s what we’re looking for but who really knows if you fall in love with the arm talent and ball placement and his mental then you take him. I do not think Trask is the guy and I want nothing to do with him and I’ll face the criticism when he wins every week if I have too but I don’t see a guy who handles pressure well or a guy who owes you. I’m sure he will jump off the board in a interview and on the Ax’s and O’s on the white board and retention terms but I just don’t think he is they type of guy your winning playoff games with. Unless you have a Super team and those don’t last but a year or two under the salary cap.

Good points.  I don't know either and have no confidence that Trask or Jones can be a franchise qb.  I would prefer to avoid taking them in the first.  From what I have seen Trask at least has the size on Jones, has a better mastery of a pro passing game and certainly has done more with less.  I am not down on Jones, I just think he is really hard to judge with that team around him.  The big thing about Jones is, I don't see anything special about him.  Not his mobility, not his size, not his arm.  Granted, his arm is adequate, but it isn't special.  I think he is a player though, which I like.  However, we already got guys like that in Allen in Heinicke who already know our system.

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13 minutes ago, offbyone said:

Good points.  I don't know either and have no confidence that Trask or Jones can be a franchise qb.  I would prefer to avoid taking them in the first.  From what I have seen Trask at least has the size on Jones, has a better mastery of a pro passing game and certainly has done more with less.  I am not down on Jones, I just think he is really hard to judge with that team around him.  The big thing about Jones is, I don't see anything special about him.  Not his mobility, not his size, not his arm.  Granted, his arm is adequate, but it isn't special.  I think he is a player though, which I like.  However, we already got guys like that in Allen in Heinicke who already know our system.

I complaetely agree except I’ve seen Jones drive a ball with plenty of exit velocity and just over a backer dropping in front of a saftey. But as you said is he actually a upgrade from the lower tier Pro QB players we’re currently fielding? Idk I’d more then likely bet against especially if we selected them because IMO they don’t fit the system. I think Trask or Jones fit in Indy, Pitt, Cleveland, Minn, Tenn, NO and that’s just based on what their currently running. I think Pitt would be better served with a mobile guy as would Indy. Minn and Tenn Kirk and Tanny both have adequate legs. I would put Jacksonville and NYJ on this as they’ve been running a less mobile based scheme but we just don’t know what they will be after these hires.

Personally I think best case for both is to go at the bottom half of the second round to better teams sit behind a aged QB and maybe take over the next season.

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7 minutes ago, ripsean21 said:

I complaetely agree except I’ve seen Jones drive a ball with plenty of exit velocity and just over a backer dropping in front of a saftey. But as you said is he actually a upgrade from the lower tier Pro QB players we’re currently fielding? Idk I’d more then likely bet against especially if we selected them because IMO they don’t fit the system. I think Trask or Jones fit in Indy, Pitt, Cleveland, Minn, Tenn, NO and that’s just based on what their currently running. I think Pitt would be better served with a mobile guy as would Indy. Minn and Tenn Kirk and Tanny both have adequate legs. I would put Jacksonville and NYJ on this as they’ve been running a less mobile based scheme but we just don’t know what they will be after these hires.

Personally I think best case for both is to go at the bottom half of the second round to better teams sit behind a aged QB and maybe take over the next season.

I could also see New England taking Trask.  I also agree though that either could fit Minnesota as Cousins' heir.  I will be interested to see if someone falls in love with one of them and drafts them in top 15.

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1 minute ago, offbyone said:

I could also see New England taking Trask.  I also agree though that either could fit Minnesota as Cousins' heir.  I will be interested to see if someone falls in love with one of them and drafts them in top 15.

I hope for us that happens. I hope both go in the top 18 for the betterment of a player falling to us at 19 😂😂😂

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Just don't see Rivera falling in love with a qb without mobility,him and turner have both mentioned that a few talking QB.I Still firmly believe Rivera will trade the 1st for a QB before taking a QB in 1st this year

 

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2 hours ago, ovfd55 said:

Just don't see Rivera falling in love with a qb without mobility,him and turner have both mentioned that a few talking QB.I Still firmly believe Rivera will trade the 1st for a QB before taking a QB in 1st this year

 

But what mobile QB is he going to trade the first for? Because Stafford isn’t mobile and nor should we be anywhere near that. This class has mobile guys and I think it’s more then likely we draft a developmental mobile guy like Mond or ridder preferably Mond because he has the better size he actually plays well from within the pocket and he has the arm and he’s really well at moving when the play breaks down. And you can design runs with him as well.

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3 hours ago, ripsean21 said:

But what mobile QB is he going to trade the first for? Because Stafford isn’t mobile and nor should we be anywhere near that. This class has mobile guys and I think it’s more then likely we draft a developmental mobile guy like Mond or ridder preferably Mond because he has the better size he actually plays well from within the pocket and he has the arm and he’s really well at moving when the play breaks down. And you can design runs with him as well.

That’s exactly what I want us to do, a 3rd on Mond?

go into to camp with Allen, Heinicke, and Mond and let the best man win.

I would think Heinicke, Allen, Mond would be the order but you never know. Mond could pull a Russel Wilson and show out

that allows us to take the best WR, LT, MLB, FS, CB in the 1st and 2nd

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