2021 NFL Draft Thread

[turtle28]

27 minutes ago, lavar703 said:

He won’t be there. He’s going at pick 3. Chris Cooley, who as far as I know is pretty good friends with Kyle, says it has to be Jones with the third pick. Not only because he’s everything Mike and Kyle looked for in a QB but simply because he’s the third best QB in the draft. Chris Simms has been spot-on with his QB rankings has Jones third as well. 

I don’t know what to trust with the Shanhan’s, Kyle came out of the womb blowing smoke like his dad. They’re great offensive minds, but they play mind games with the media all the time, they’re hardly ever telling the truth. I can’t ever forget that Mike Shanahan didn’t even go to Jay Cutler’s pro day & then traded up to draft him.

There’s so much smoke w/ Kyle wanting Mac Jones that I think it’s a smoke screen and his real target is either Justin Fields or Trey Lance. 
 

I think they’ll keep Jimmy G for one more year and Jimmy G get them back to the playoffs. They’ll develop Fields or Lance this year as his replacement. Then, they’ll trade Jimmy next offseason for something like Andy Reid did with Alex Smith in 2018.

Edited April 18, 2021 by turtle28

[Forge]

1 hour ago, lavar703 said:

He won’t be there. He’s going at pick 3. Chris Cooley, who as far as I know is pretty good friends with Kyle, says it has to be Jones with the third pick. Not only because he’s everything Mike and Kyle looked for in a QB but simply because he’s the third best QB in the draft. Chris Simms has been spot-on with his QB rankings has Jones third as well. 

I'd still be very surprised if he's the pick at 3. I wouldn't be completely shocked, because of Kyle's personality, but I'd be surprised. Just based on the things that Kyle has said over the past few months, I don't know how the answer is McCorkle here unless he is just full of crap. I think Kyle and Mike's ideal QB is likely Steve Young / John Elway more so than Kirk Cousins. 

Also, Chris Simms looks spot on because people use that one ranking that he had that one time where he had Lamar Jackson #2 while failing to acknowledge that his *final* rankings that year had Josh Rosen #2 and Lamar #4 out of that 5 man group. He still had Josh Allen #1, which is impressive, but he's had plenty of misses. He had daniel jones ranked behind the likes of Jarrett Stidham and Ryan Finley, etc. 

[turtle28]

[turtle28]

Sign me up for this!

[ripsean21]

53 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

Sign me up for this!

He would def be special here. 

[turtle28]

[ripsean21]

I know you can’t ever take away anything said in a interview but the River, Mayhew interview seemed very interesting how they spoke to the QB position experience. I think that it’s all just general discussion of course preference is having a 4 year ton of experience from a QB. Ultimately talent and tape trump everything. I think them also not sending the brass out to Lance’s pro day maybe is another move where it signals lack of interest. But it could also be them keeping their cards close. Ultimately I think this team is going to try to maximize this draft. I believe they are going to try to make quality selections and get quantity throughout the draft as well. I can very much see us with a OL, QB, LB, S with our top 4 picks

[lavar703]

31 minutes ago, ripsean21 said:

I know you can’t ever take away anything said in a interview but the River, Mayhew interview seemed very interesting how they spoke to the QB position experience. I think that it’s all just general discussion of course preference is having a 4 year ton of experience from a QB. Ultimately talent and tape trump everything. I think them also not sending the brass out to Lance’s pro day maybe is another move where it signals lack of interest. But it could also be them keeping their cards close. Ultimately I think this team is going to try to maximize this draft. I believe they are going to try to make quality selections and get quantity throughout the draft as well. I can very much see us with a OL, QB, LB, S with our top 4 picks

JP Finlay thinks it means they’re actually really interested and they don’t want to make it seem that way. Said they sent everyone to his first pro day. 

[e16bball]

21 hours ago, Forge said:

I'd still be very surprised if he's the pick at 3. I wouldn't be completely shocked, because of Kyle's personality, but I'd be surprised. Just based on the things that Kyle has said over the past few months, I don't know how the answer is McCorkle here unless he is just full of crap. I think Kyle and Mike's ideal QB is likely Steve Young / John Elway more so than Kirk Cousins. 

I don’t know what Kyle has been saying, so I totally defer to you on his comments of late and how that offers insight into the QB choice. 

But personally, based just on my past observations, I think the Shanahans are such absolute control freaks that their preference is about 98% “shoulders and above” and 2% “everything below that.” I think they’re so convinced of their ability to scheme it up (and likely rightly so) that their priority is finding a QB who can just consistently take what they (the Shanahans) give him. Which means ability to understand the scheme, make the progressions, anticipate the throws, always go to the right guy, and consistently put the ball on the receivers that Kyle will have running open for him. That’s Mac Jones to a T. He gets criticized for playing in such a schemed-up offense in college — but if you’re the NFL HC that wants everything totally schemed up and doesn’t WANT off-schedule plays, then he’s your huckleberry. 

By my count, Kyle has really coached one legit athlete at the QB position in his career. Yes, his dad coached Young Elway and Steve Young 30 years ago, but even for him, it became quickly clear that the athleticism was secondary to veteranosity. Old Elway was no great athlete, but they won with his pocket passing and occasionally sneaky legs. And that sorta seemed to become the formula that Mike was looking for, as he moved on to guys like Brian Griese and Jake Plummer following Elway, and then the ill-fated Donovan McNabb gambit here. In fact, the only two legitimately raw young guys Mike ever put on the field after Young Elway both got him fired. 

One of those guys was also the only athlete Kyle has ever coached — and he was also the one that got Kyle fired here. And while they did a fine job with him as a rookie, they’ve made painfully clear ever since that they hated it, that they never wanted him, and that they had to stick with him when they actually wanted to play Cousins. Other than here, his primary starting QBs have been Matt Schaub in Houston, Brian Hoyer in Cleveland (asking out when it became they wanted to go with Manziel), Matt Ryan in Atlanta, and Jimmy G in San Fran. Adding in Cousins as his Dearest Love while he was here, I think there’s a pattern there. And the pattern seems to say McCorkle. 

I think partly it comes down to how you perceive Kyle. Presumably you like him, and you suspect he’s thinking like an offensive genius and really creative playcaller (which he is), and so you believe the idea of adding a weapon at QB would be appealing to him because of all the new and cool ways he could deploy such a player. I do not like Kyle, and I suspect he’s thinking like an arrogant doucecanoe (which he also is), and so I believe that he’s just looking for someone who he can count on to not screw up all the brilliance he’s putting down in his gameplans. He doesn’t need gimmicks like QB runs, because he’s already the world’s foremost master of HB runs. 

I think that’s why there’s some talk of a split in the organization. Pure speculation (probably even the baseless kind) on my part, but I’m wondering if perhaps Lynch and the boys down in the scouting department are thinking like we’re thinking — about stuff like upside and potential and whether Fields could be the next Watson or Lance could be the next Allen. While Kyle is sitting up on his throne made of melted-down NFC championship rings and thinking he doesn’t need to swing for the fences and risk striking out. He just needs someone who can consistently take the easy singles that Kyle tees up for him. All he’s looking for is someone he can count on to be a little smarter, a little more accurate, and a lot more durable than Jimmy G. 

That’s just my speculation though. Maybe Kyle goes Fields. I think there’s almost zero chance he goes Lance. But I think based on his background and past experiences, he wants exactly the guy you’re thinking he doesn’t want. He did the raw young athlete thing once — didn’t go well for him. What has gone well is smart, accurate, reliable veteran QBs. I don’t think he’s going to choose to wade back into the deep and dangerous waters of developing and nurturing a raw QB with massive upside, because I don’t think he believes he needs to.

[RSkinGM]

Casserly Mock 2.0 has us trading up to Vikings pick 14 and taking Trey Lance. If he's there at 14, Why wouldn't he be there at 19? Who from 14 to 18 would take a Q B ?

[ovfd55]

14 minutes ago, e16bball said:

I don’t know what Kyle has been saying, so I totally defer to you on his comments of late and how that offers insight into the QB choice. 

But personally, based just on my past observations, I think the Shanahans are such absolute control freaks that their preference is about 98% “shoulders and above” and 2% “everything below that.” I think they’re so convinced of their ability to scheme it up (and likely rightly so) that their priority is finding a QB who can just consistently take what they (the Shanahans) give him. Which means ability to understand the scheme, make the progressions, anticipate the throws, always go to the right guy, and consistently put the ball on the receivers that Kyle will have running open for him. That’s Mac Jones to a T. He gets criticized for playing in such a schemed-up offense in college — but if you’re the NFL HC that wants everything totally schemed up and doesn’t WANT off-schedule plays, then he’s your huckleberry. 

By my count, Kyle has really coached one legit athlete at the QB position in his career. Yes, his dad coached Young Elway and Steve Young 30 years ago, but even for him, it became quickly clear that the athleticism was secondary to veteranosity. Old Elway was no great athlete, but they won with his pocket passing and occasionally sneaky legs. And that sorta seemed to become the formula that Mike was looking for, as he moved on to guys like Brian Griese and Jake Plummer following Elway, and then the ill-fated Donovan McNabb gambit here. In fact, the only two legitimately raw young guys Mike ever put on the field after Young Elway both got him fired. 

One of those guys was also the only athlete Kyle has ever coached — and he was also the one that got Kyle fired here. And while they did a fine job with him as a rookie, they’ve made painfully clear ever since that they hated it, that they never wanted him, and that they had to stick with him when they actually wanted to play Cousins. Other than here, his primary starting QBs have been Matt Schaub in Houston, Brian Hoyer in Cleveland (asking out when it became they wanted to go with Manziel), Matt Ryan in Atlanta, and Jimmy G in San Fran. Adding in Cousins as his Dearest Love while he was here, I think there’s a pattern there. And the pattern seems to say McCorkle. 

I think partly it comes down to how you perceive Kyle. Presumably you like him, and you suspect he’s thinking like an offensive genius and really creative playcaller (which he is), and so you believe the idea of adding a weapon at QB would be appealing to him because of all the new and cool ways he could deploy such a player. I do not like Kyle, and I suspect he’s thinking like an arrogant doucecanoe (which he also is), and so I believe that he’s just looking for someone who he can count on to not screw up all the brilliance he’s putting down in his gameplans. He doesn’t need gimmicks like QB runs, because he’s already the world’s foremost master of HB runs. 

I think that’s why there’s some talk of a split in the organization. Pure speculation (probably even the baseless kind) on my part, but I’m wondering if perhaps Lynch and the boys down in the scouting department are thinking like we’re thinking — about stuff like upside and potential and whether Fields could be the next Watson or Lance could be the next Allen. While Kyle is sitting up on his throne made of melted-down NFC championship rings and thinking he doesn’t need to swing for the fences and risk striking out. He just needs someone who can consistently take the easy singles that Kyle tees up for him. All he’s looking for is someone he can count on to be a little smarter, a little more accurate, and a lot more durable than Jimmy G. 

That’s just my speculation though. Maybe Kyle goes Fields. I think there’s almost zero chance he goes Lance. But I think based on his background and past experiences, he wants exactly the guy you’re thinking he doesn’t want. He did the raw young athlete thing once — didn’t go well for him. What has gone well is smart, accurate, reliable veteran QBs. I don’t think he’s going to choose to wade back into the deep and dangerous waters of developing and nurturing a raw QB with massive upside, because I don’t think he believes he needs to.

I can 100% see Kyle thinking of Matt Ryan when  seeing Mac Jones.
I think the thing that throws me off is trading what they traded to move up when I havn't really heard any other teams targeting him that high for them to give up the picks they gave up they had to know he wasn't making it to 7 much less them at 12

[ovfd55]

2 minutes ago, RSkinGM said:

Casserly Mock 2.0 has us trading up to Vikings pick 14 and taking Trey Lance. If he's there at 14, Why wouldn't he be there at 19? Who from 14 to 18 would take a Q B ?

havn't seen the mock but guessing Patriots at 15,Bears,Saints or Pittsburg jumping us to get him as well would be scary

[e16bball]

Incidentally, I’ve tried to make this post like 10 times, and I keep losing it — so I’m just going to keep it brief to make sure I get the thought out there. 

I keep watching Trey Lance...and the *love* light just keeps not coming on. There’s a lot of traits to like, and he obviously can really move and can make all the throws. But for me, I’m just not impressed enough with his throwing. The highlights are fantastic — some throws will blow your mind and he clearly has every club in the bag. But the consistency just isn’t there for a guy I’m considering making the future of my franchise at an extraordinary cost. There are bad misses, some pretty consistent accuracy issues, and just an overall mediocre touch that makes me feel like he’s got a long way to go as a passer (and wonder if some of that, like touch, is stuff you don’t exactly “develop” over time). 

To me, I’m seeing 3 tiers of QBs. Lawrence on the top tier, then Wilson/Fields on the second tier, and then Lance/Jones on the third. I would probably be fine taking Lance at 19 if he’s there, just on the hope that he could take the Josh Allen path. But the idea of trading up a ton to get him is concerning to me. Would do it for Fields, though.

[e16bball]

5 minutes ago, ovfd55 said:

havn't seen the mock but guessing Patriots at 15,Bears,Saints or Pittsburg jumping us to get him as well would be scary

Bingo. If you think the guy is The Guy™️, you’d have to assume that some of the teams behind you might also feel that way. If that’s the case, they may be trying to jump you. So you may have to move up to ward them off. 

Also, you’re right, Casserly absolutely had them jumping NE. 

[RSkinGM]

11 minutes ago, ovfd55 said:

havn't seen the mock but guessing Patriots at 15,Bears,Saints or Pittsburg jumping us to get him as well would be scary

Brain cramp-totally missed the Pats at 15 . 🤔