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2021 NFL Draft Thread

naptownskinsfan

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turtle28

turtle28

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16 hours ago, lavar703 said:

In the first half and then proceeded to do nothing else. But please, be the contrarian and argue with me for the next 6-pages about how well the QB who threw for 70 yards through three full quarters of football played. 

Yeah, I’m not arguing he played well vs our D or anything no QBs has the 2nd half of the year - but I think it’s a bit odd to continue to act like those TDs didn’t mean much. I know me personally any time I saw him rush in between our DTs or get outside of our DEs, I was worried he was going for a big back breaking run on us.

I’ll also say I had a fear if we didn’t score again as the game went in that with Hurts in the game that at any point he could make a play through his legs or by extending the play and then through the air.

He’s the type of dual threat that could make a play at any moment to win a game. I always have fear when facing those type of QBs. It was a fear of mine if he played in the 4th quarter that he’ll do something that would lead to another TD for the Eagles while our O looked awful in the 2nd half.

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7 hours ago, ovfd55 said:

Don't think then can afford to trade Wentz it is DEAD CAP of 34 mil on them which former GM and Cap specialist on Andrew Brandt says its impossible to get out of realistically before 2022,To trade Wentz they'd have to also fire sale other parts like Ertz or Olineman something just to get rid of Wentz

Don't listen to Brandt, he's a tool. It's not impossible to trade, just depends on if Philly wants to do it. Financials aren't a problem. They have to fire sale anyway. Their cap is screwed for 2021 and there will be run off into 2022. But financials aren't the problem here. It's mainly optics and the appetite 

If they don't trade Wentz this year, he's still more expensive to cut than keep next year. This isn't a one year thing. Then you add that they will have to pay an additional 15-30 million in real cash? I'd be surprised if he's not traded

33 to be gone this year, and be completely done with it. No more cap hits, no more money than what they've paid him at this very moment. Or carry him as a backup maybe or in competition at 34 million, pay him another 15-30 million in real cash for that year, and then you still can't cut him in 2022 because he's 39 million in dead cap if you cut him. 

The only scenario that works better is they keep him for 2021 and someone trades for him in 2022, which is one hell of a gamble, and even then, he's still 24.5 million in dead money and they still paid him a ton more to ride the bench (if they proceed with hurts). Not to mention the potential distraction. 

Reports are that he's still well regarded across the league and teams will be interested, so their return may be okay

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Thaiphoon

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3 hours ago, lavar703 said:

In the first half and then proceeded to do nothing else. 

Yup. He was not very good last night. He had two decent drives and the first was a ref-assisted one. Is he mobile? Sure. 

But the guy was like 7/22 for 70 yards 0TD, and 1 INT. He had 30 yards rushing and 2 TDs (again - one as a culmination of that first drive).

But he was not lighting the world on fire last night and the ones crying and throwing fits in the General Thread are delusional thinking that the Eagles were tanking.

He got progressively worse as the game wore on. 

How worse?

In the last 5 series he was in, the offense generated 55 yards. Only 7 of those yards were because of him. Guess how many points? ZERO. And both of those I highlighted were even AFTER he was gifted with the ball on our 15 yard line. They run the ball and could move it. As soon as they put it in his hands? Their offense sputtered. In fact, his last play on the field was the 4th down play. Missed a wide open receiver in the end zone. 

I don't blame Pederson putting Sudfeld in (he had already planned to do it anyway). The Eagles had zero to play for and sitting Hurts so he doesn't get injured and miss the 2021 season was smart. He didn't look good last night as a franchise QB. 

Again, he was 7/20, 106 yards, 1INT and 2 rush TDs. I've seen QBs pulled in the 4Q with better production than that.

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Thaiphoon

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3 hours ago, turtle28 said:

Yeah, I’m not arguing he played well vs our D or anything no QBs has the 2nd half of the year - but I think it’s a bit odd to continue to act like those TDs didn’t mean much. I know me personally any time I saw him rush in between our DTs or get outside of our DEs, I was worried he was going for a big back breaking run on us.

I’ll also say I had a fear if we didn’t score again as the game went in that with Hurts in the game that at any point he could make a play through his legs or by extending the play and then through the air.

He’s the type of dual threat that could make a play at any moment to win a game. I always have they fear when facing those type of QBs. It was a fear of mine if he played in the 4th quarter he’s do something that would lead to another TD for the Eagles while our O looked awful in the 2nd half.

I know what you're saying, but outside of those two series at the end of the 1Q and beginning of the 2Q, he didn't scare us too much on D. Part of that was their stupid OC calling pass plays instead of runs (their RBs seemed -> no stats in front of me <- to be more effective moving the offense than he was), but the other part was that even with Bostic being Bostic, I think we locked it up a bit tighter on Hurts.

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Woz

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11 minutes ago, Forge said:

If they don't trade Wentz this year, he's still more expensive to cut than keep next year. This isn't a one year thing. Then you add that they will have to pay an additional 15-30 million in real cash? I'd be surprised if he's not traded

(for the record, Forge, you may already know all this; just trying to pull it apart for me and others ... just leveraging this comment to expand on the contract)

 

At first I was confused, since as it stands right now, the Eagles would save about $6.7M in cap space if he was cut after 2021.

Then I remembered that $15M of his 2022 salary guarantees in just a bit over two months (along a $10M roster bonus). So, they have 69 days in which to deal him without being on the hook for that $10M.

For the record, if they traded Wentz before the $10M came due, Philadelphia would eke out $0.8M in cap savings for getting rid of him. They could designate him a June cut and break even this year, while eating $24.5M in dead cap in 2022.

As for the new team, it isn't as onerous to take on this deal if they think he can play up to it.

  • 2021
    • Salary = $15.4M (fully guaranteed already)
    • Roster bonus = $10M (fully guaranteed already)
    • Signing bonus and option bonus monies stay with Philadelphia as they've already been paid
    • Cap Hit = $25.4M
  • 2022
    • Salary = $22.0M ($15M guarantees March 15, 2021; rest fully guarantees March 15, 2022)
    • Roster bonus = $0.001M (yes, $1K ... that's what both Spotrac and OTC report ... not sure what that's about)
    • Cap Hit = $22.0001M
  • 2023
    • Salary = $20M
    • Roster bonus = $5M (due March 15, 2023)
    • Cap Hit = $25M
      • Spotrac lists Wentz as having a $2M "miscellaneous" charge for this year, but don't explain what that is; if this is accurate his cap hit would be $27M
  • 2024
    • Salary = $21M
    • Roster bonus = $5M (due March 15, 2024)
    • Cap Hit = $26M

So, for his new team, it would be a two year guaranteed contract with two team option years, all of which would be around the top 5 of 2020 cap hits now, but would be at the bottom of the top ten or out altogether within a year or so. There is some injury risk with Wentz for the new team, but the question is would you rather pay Dak Prescott Brinks truck money to get him?

I don't see how Washington could trade for Wentz (nor see how Philadelphia could send him to WFT), but it's an interesting thought experiment.

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7 minutes ago, Woz said:

(for the record, Forge, you may already know all this; just trying to pull it apart for me and others ... just leveraging this comment to expand on the contract)

 

At first I was confused, since as it stands right now, the Eagles would save about $6.7M in cap space if he was cut after 2021.

Then I remembered that $15M of his 2022 salary guarantees in just a bit over two months (along a $10M roster bonus). So, they have 69 days in which to deal him without being on the hook for that $10M.

For the record, if they traded Wentz before the $10M came due, Philadelphia would eke out $0.8M in cap savings for getting rid of him. They could designate him a June cut and break even this year, while eating $24.5M in dead cap in 2022.

As for the new team, it isn't as onerous to take on this deal if they think he can play up to it.

  • 2021
    • Salary = $15.4M (fully guaranteed already)
    • Roster bonus = $10M (fully guaranteed already)
    • Signing bonus and option bonus monies stay with Philadelphia as they've already been paid
    • Cap Hit = $25.4M
  • 2022
    • Salary = $22.0M ($15M guarantees March 15, 2021; rest fully guarantees March 15, 2022)
    • Roster bonus = $0.001M (yes, $1K ... that's what both Spotrac and OTC report ... not sure what that's about)
    • Cap Hit = $22.0001M
  • 2023
    • Salary = $20M
    • Roster bonus = $5M (due March 15, 2023)
    • Cap Hit = $25M
      • Spotrac lists Wentz as having a $2M "miscellaneous" charge for this year, but don't explain what that is; if this is accurate his cap hit would be $27M
  • 2024
    • Salary = $21M
    • Roster bonus = $5M (due March 15, 2024)
    • Cap Hit = $26M

So, for his new team, it would be a two year guaranteed contract with two team option years, all of which would be around the top 5 of 2020 cap hits now, but would be at the bottom of the top ten or out altogether within a year or so. There is some injury risk with Wentz for the new team, but the question is would you rather pay Dak Prescott Brinks truck money to get him?

I don't see how Washington could trade for Wentz (nor see how Philadelphia could send him to WFT), but it's an interesting thought experiment.

Fwiw, in order to get traded, he's going to remove that 2022 guarantee. It's going to be a big deal for any team who wants him.  He's already said he's willing to work on the contract to facilitate the trade, and that's what is going to have to go. 

Secondarily, it's important to note that two thirds of his 2021 base salary cap hit is made up of unlikely to hit incentives. His actual salary is less than 4. So what's going to happen is, his base will count for 15 million in 2021, but it will be readjusted in 2022 and whatever team acquires him should get about an 11 million credit towards their 2022 salary cap. Theoretically, he could hit the escalators, but if he does, you're not complaining

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Woz

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3 minutes ago, Forge said:

Fwiw, in order to get traded, he's going to remove that 2022 guarantee. It's going to be a big deal for any team who wants him.  He's already said he's willing to work on the contract to facilitate the trade, and that's what is going to have to go. 

Go, or be delayed? I could see him moving the deadline back, but I'm not sure if I'm his representation I advise him to remove it outright. Gives his new team the ability to dump him after a single season without penalty.

4 minutes ago, Forge said:

Secondarily, it's important to note that two thirds of his 2021 base salary cap hit is made up of unlikely to hit incentives. His actual salary is less than 4. So what's going to happen is, his base will count for 15 million in 2021, but it will be readjusted in 2022 and whatever team acquires him should get about an 11 million credit towards their 2022 salary cap. Theoretically, he could hit the escalators, but if he does, you're not complaining

Fair point.

I suppose if I were his agent and the 2022 guarantee was a sticking point, I might trade it to turn those incentives into more LTBE or just straight cash money.

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5 minutes ago, Woz said:

Go, or be delayed? I could see him moving the deadline back, but I'm not sure if I'm his representation I advise him to remove it outright. Gives his new team the ability to dump him after a single season without penalty.

If it's delayed only, I think it'll be delayed for like a year. The teams are going to want to be able to get out of it after a year without penalty in case he sucks again like you said. So really all he has to do is push the vesting day from third day of 2021 league year to 2022. But that should be good enough

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Woz

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5 minutes ago, Forge said:

If it's delayed only, I think it'll be delayed for like a year. The teams are going to want to be able to get out of it after a year without penalty in case he sucks again like you said. So really all he has to do is push the vesting day from third day of 2021 league year to 2022. But that should be good enough

Flip the NLTBE incentives in 2021 into straight salary in exchange? Could easily work that.

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MKnight82

MKnight82

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8 hours ago, Forge said:

If it's delayed only, I think it'll be delayed for like a year. The teams are going to want to be able to get out of it after a year without penalty in case he sucks again like you said. So really all he has to do is push the vesting day from third day of 2021 league year to 2022. But that should be good enough

He’s going to get a lot of pressure from the NFLPA to not doing anything drastic to his contract.  They will see it as setting a bad precedent.

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2 hours ago, MKnight82 said:

He’s going to get a lot of pressure from the NFLPA to not doing anything drastic to his contract.  They will see it as setting a bad precedent.

Can be a touchy situation with that, but I agree that they certainly wouldn't want him to overdue it with regards to giving back and why I wouldn't expect him to actually lower salaries or anything. I really like Woz's idea of giving the early vesting on the guarantee back but increasing his 2021 base to include the escalators. Nearly washes out the guarantee. I think that's a really good idea. 

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turtle28

turtle28

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Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, Thaiphoon said:

I know what you're saying, but outside of those two series at the end of the 1Q and beginning of the 2Q, he didn't scare us too much on D. Part of that was their stupid OC calling pass plays instead of runs (their RBs seemed -> no stats in front of me <- to be more effective moving the offense than he was), but the other part was that even with Bostic being Bostic, I think we locked it up a bit tighter on Hurts.

Yeah, I mean all I’m saying is I would’ve felt more uncomfortable if Hurts was playing in the 4th quarter than with Sudfeld in the game.

I mean Sudfeld turned the ball over twice in the 4th quarter. I don’t see Hurts throwing the bad int that Reaves had and I don’t see Hurts fumbling the snap which led to our last field goal.

You take those turnovers away and we’re only up 3 points the entire 4th quarter. I would’ve been crappin 💩 bricks 🧱 if Hurts was still in the game and we were up only 3 points all 4th quarter just Bc of his dual threat ability and at anytime he can make some crazy play that most QBs can’t.

 

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