Stafford to Dallas???

[Karnage84]

14 hours ago, Nnivolcm said:

If you would have told me two years and 4 games ago that in 2020 if we steal one or two we could hope for 8-8 I'd have told you I don't think that'll be good enough for the people in charge.

I'm not so sure the people in charge agree with that now. 

If 8-8 gets you in the playoffs, what difference does it make. I doubt they will get there but I want to see this team win and not go through another rebuild. I just don't think it will happen. 

[diehardlionfan]

1 hour ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

A strong statement, yet I agree. It's extremely disappointing.

What frustrates the most, at least for me, is that Patricia was supposed to be some defensive guru. So, either Quinn is a failure in the players he’s given Patricia, or, Patricia can’t coach or mentor what he’s been given. Or, both. 

In my view I see a definite downgrade in talent in every defensive position group. Actually, perhaps the LB group is marginally better. Ex Patriots have been brought in. Quinn’s decision? Patricia’s ask? Both? Who takes responsibility. 

What I see is a defence with downgraded talent that’s also been impacted by injury. I don’t buy injury as an excuse. In my view it simply means risk wasn’t mitigated by having sufficient depth. It also makes you scratch your head. They knew they were taking a CB unless some teams above made poor decisions. It made the Coleman injury very problematic as the most experienced, effective starter.  It also further exposed the line deficiencies. If you’re weak on the back end you better be able to get after the QB and clog up running lanes. 

So, somehow they’ve totally botched the defence. In my view they’re a matched set. Both go, or both stay. My preference would be they take action now by removing Quinn. I would like to see them conduct preliminary talent scouting for the position now and removing Quinn not only sends a message it protects from further harm. Patricia can finish out the season. I would prefer him gone now but expecting any moves from the Lions is wishful thinking. Atlanta and Houston have already cleaned house so I expect the Lions, if they do take action, to be a day late and a dollar short. 

 

 

 

[TL-TwoWinsAway]

11 minutes ago, diehardlionfan said:

What frustrates the most, at least for me, is that Patricia was supposed to be some defensive guru. So, either Quinn is a failure in the players he’s given Patricia, or, Patricia can’t coach or mentor what he’s been given. Or, both. 

In my view I see a definite downgrade in talent in every defensive position group. Actually, perhaps the LB group is marginally better. Ex Patriots have been brought in. Quinn’s decision? Patricia’s ask? Both? Who takes responsibility. 

What I see is a defence with downgraded talent that’s also been impacted by injury. I don’t buy injury as an excuse. In my view it simply means risk wasn’t mitigated by having sufficient depth. It also makes you scratch your head. They knew they were taking a CB unless some teams above made poor decisions. It made the Coleman injury very problematic as the most experienced, effective starter.  It also further exposed the line deficiencies. If you’re weak on the back end you better be able to get after the QB and clog up running lanes. 

So, somehow they’ve totally botched the defence. In my view they’re a matched set. Both go, or both stay. My preference would be they take action now by removing Quinn. I would like to see them conduct preliminary talent scouting for the position now and removing Quinn not only sends a message it protects from further harm. Patricia can finish out the season. I would prefer him gone now but expecting any moves from the Lions is wishful thinking. Atlanta and Houston have already cleaned house so I expect the Lions, if they do take action, to be a day late and a dollar short. 

I agree that Quinn and Patricia should be tied together. It does seem that some "coaching gurus" struggle in building that side of the ball. (Dan Quinn, for example, was another defensive coach, yet the Falcons' defense was often their greatest weakness.)

I think their plan was to build a great secondary and hope that the grouping of Trufant-Okudah-Coleman-Oruwariye would be enough to compensate for underwhelming pressure. That hasn't transpired, and the pressure is simply nonexistent. It's a bad combination.

My only reluctance in starting over (again) stems from the belief that rebuilding often takes time. I picture this roster with another draft and free agency period. The offense is pretty much set, and they could add a DE/DT/LB in the early rounds of the draft and really elevate this roster.

I'm still not sure that starting over right now is the right approach.

[LionArkie]

20 minutes ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

I agree that Quinn and Patricia should be tied together. It does seem that some "coaching gurus" struggle in building that side of the ball. (Dan Quinn, for example, was another defensive coach, yet the Falcons' defense was often their greatest weakness.)

I think their plan was to build a great secondary and hope that the grouping of Trufant-Okudah-Coleman-Oruwariye would be enough to compensate for underwhelming pressure. That hasn't transpired, and the pressure is simply nonexistent. It's a bad combination.

My only reluctance in starting over (again) stems from the belief that rebuilding often takes time. I picture this roster with another draft and free agency period. The offense is pretty much set, and they could add a DE/DT/LB in the early rounds of the draft and really elevate this roster.

I'm still not sure that starting over right now is the right approach.

I think we are looking at a brutal rebuild with an aging franchise qb ahead of us. What BQ was given to work with and what he is leaving is disgraceful. If this team builds through FA, it is going to be expensive. If they build through the draft, it is going to take time.  I don't see this shaking out well and this is why you don't hire NE people.

[diehardlionfan]

20 minutes ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

I agree that Quinn and Patricia should be tied together. It does seem that some "coaching gurus" struggle in building that side of the ball. (Dan Quinn, for example, was another defensive coach, yet the Falcons' defense was often their greatest weakness.)

I think their plan was to build a great secondary and hope that the grouping of Trufant-Okudah-Coleman-Oruwariye would be enough to compensate for underwhelming pressure. That hasn't transpired, and the pressure is simply nonexistent. It's a bad combination.

My only reluctance in starting over (again) stems from the belief that rebuilding often takes time. I picture this roster with another draft and free agency period. The offense is pretty much set, and they could add a DE/DT/LB in the early rounds of the draft and really elevate this roster.

I'm still not sure that starting over right now is the right approach.

The last thing I want is a rebuild, however given my belief the dynamic duo should get the heave ho it may be unavoidable.

If I were king for a day they would be gone. The scouting department can carry on and finance decisions can be made by the appropriate department. 

As part of any GM candidates screening they would receive two seasons of game film. The past two seasons draft results and rosters.

They would each be expected to provide a detailed plan for the Lions moving forward. Financials etc. as the cap is going to be an issue with reduced revenue. 

It must include a free agent strategy as well as a draft strategy. The full resources of the Lions would be made available to assist. Outside resources could also be used. 

Applicants blowing the organization up wouldn’t survive step one. That’s not to suggest trades etc. would be frowned upon but it can’t be attacked like a mock draft either. 

[TL-TwoWinsAway]

2 minutes ago, LionArkie said:

I think we are looking at a brutal rebuild with an aging franchise qb ahead of us. What BQ was given to work with and what he is leaving is disgraceful. If this team builds through FA, it is going to be expensive. If they build through the draft, it is going to take time.  I don't see this shaking out well and this is why you don't hire NE people.

If we go through a full rebuild: absolutely. From where we are now, I don't think we're that far off, even if we continue to underwhelm this year.

[Nnivolcm]

1 hour ago, Karnage84 said:

If 8-8 gets you in the playoffs, what difference does it make. I doubt they will get there but I want to see this team win and not go through another rebuild. I just don't think it will happen. 

I doubt the Lions get to 8-8 and I doubt 8-8 gets anyone except the winner of the NFE East into the playoffs.

[Karnage84]

1 hour ago, Nnivolcm said:

I doubt the Lions get to 8-8 and I doubt 8-8 gets anyone except the winner of the NFE East into the playoffs.

You might be right on both counts. However, I am not actively cheering for either of those to come true. 

If the Lions lose to Jacksonville then I could see Patricia (and possibly Quinn) be the next HC/GM to go. Chicago and Minnesota are flawed teams. Theres a stretch of teams that are more likely to be Ws if this team has anything on the go at all. 

I doubt it will happen and I do expect MP will be fired by seasons end but I also would not hate for us to go 8-8 and squeak into the playoffs. 

[Karnage84]

I can see Stafford being traded to Indy or Cleveland if we lose to Jacksonville. Dallas just won with Andy Dalton and I wonder if they'll just want to run with the Red Rocket. If Rivers seems to be holding the Colts back or Baker is more hurt than letting on those are two teams primed to add a Stafford esque caliber QB. 

[Sllim Pickens]

16 hours ago, LionArkie said:

I think we are looking at a brutal rebuild with an aging franchise qb ahead of us. What BQ was given to work with and what he is leaving is disgraceful. If this team builds through FA, it is going to be expensive. If they build through the draft, it is going to take time.  I don't see this shaking out well and this is why you don't hire NE people.

In the NFL, rebuilds really dont take that long if done right.  The 49ers went to a Super Bowl in 3 years, the Rams turned around in one and went to the super bowl in year 2.  The Texans always go from bad to winning their division.  There is a reason that teams who make the playoffs have a hard time returning aside from the elite QBs.  And even then some of those elites dont make the playoffs all that often.  We don't need impact players at every position, just enough to allow the good players to play good.  I think if we fix our line and run schemes that work, we arent far off.  Even if we flip Stafford we should be able to put a team together in a couple of years that can win if the right moves are made.   

[flyguy1609]

i don't think we'd trade Stafford during the season.we have a winnable schedule upcoming, we can def make the playoffs this season & anything can happen in the playoffs. if we were to move Stafford better bet is off-season. think the browns like Mayfield, Colts maybe although i can see wentz & ertz getting moved there. If we move Stafford(i dont think we should) we should make a trade for Sam Darnold, i think once he gets away from Gase hell be good.

 

[Karnage84]

1 hour ago, flyguy1609 said:

i don't think we'd trade Stafford during the season.we have a winnable schedule upcoming, we can def make the playoffs this season & anything can happen in the playoffs. if we were to move Stafford better bet is off-season. think the browns like Mayfield, Colts maybe although i can see wentz & ertz getting moved there. If we move Stafford(i dont think we should) we should make a trade for Sam Darnold, i think once he gets away from Gase hell be good.

 

If we win vs Jacksonville, then I do think it buys them another week or two. If we lose to the Jags, I can see him being traded by Tuesday to either the Colts, Browns or Cowboys. All three of those teams have pieces and just need competent QB play to be dangerous and 2/3 play in divisions that are wide open (NFCE and AFCS). 

[flyguy1609]

1 hour ago, Karnage84 said:

If we win vs Jacksonville, then I do think it buys them another week or two. If we lose to the Jags, I can see him being traded by Tuesday to either the Colts, Browns or Cowboys. All three of those teams have pieces and just need competent QB play to be dangerous and 2/3 play in divisions that are wide open (NFCE and AFCS). 

 

Not saying your wrong if we lose to the Jags but whats the dead cap hit if we move Stafford during the season???   i know next yr is min(in terms of the qb salaries)  and the following yr is like nothing.

 

also if we move Stafford & the jets want to much for Darnold, we should call the dolphins and offer a 7th for Rosen... let Rosen  finish the season out. see what the kid can do.

[Karnage84]

Just now, flyguy1609 said:

 

Not saying your wrong if we lose to the Jags but whats the dead cap hit if we move Stafford during the season???   i know next yr is min(in terms of the qb salaries)  and the following yr is like nothing.

 

also if we move Stafford & the jets want to much for Darnold, we should call the dolphins and offer a 7th for Rosen... let Rosen  finish the season out. see what the kid can do.

Stafford - $13M Dead Cap and $8.3M of new cap space according to Over The Cap. His cap hit to the new team would be $7.7M from what I've seen using Spotrac's "Manage the Roster" tool. 

The Jets might want a lot for Darnold and are likely more willing to wait things out and see if his value goes up. If Stafford goes to Dallas they might be able to get Dalton in as part of the deal. He only has a cap hit of like $3M and Lions will want someone other than Chase Daniel to run the team. 

[flyguy1609]

1 hour ago, Karnage84 said:

Stafford - $13M Dead Cap and $8.3M of new cap space according to Over The Cap. His cap hit to the new team would be $7.7M from what I've seen using Spotrac's "Manage the Roster" tool. 

The Jets might want a lot for Darnold and are likely more willing to wait things out and see if his value goes up. If Stafford goes to Dallas they might be able to get Dalton in as part of the deal. He only has a cap hit of like $3M and Lions will want someone other than Chase Daniel to run the team. 

 

Thanks for doing the research for me appreciate it