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Week 6: Falcons (0-5) at VIKINGS (1-4)

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4 hours ago, whitehops said:

zimmer isn't a perfect HC but he is a top 10 one and spielman is a top 10 GM as well. we've had a piss poor start to the season but i think context is important.

 

i think the season so far is like a perfect storm in terms of our defense being in a rebuild year, then getting hit with injuries and an opt-out all in a year where there was virtually no training camp. there would be growing pains in a normal year but our big rookie class had little time to prepare for the NFL and they were expected to contribute early. 

 

considering our success during their tenures, i think they deserve the chance to have a true franchise QB before they get canned. however, if we have a chance to draft lawrence, fields or lance this offseason and we don't i would fire spielman on the spot. 

After this year they will have three good, and four bad, years under this coach. That's top 10 material?

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@Viking Penguin when I started to think about it, it does make sense. The Vikings are losing to better teams. The teams currently picking 1-5 are losing to worse teams. The fact that they can't beat those teams would indicate they are the worse team. Someone can probably explain it a little better.

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On 10/21/2020 at 5:12 PM, PrplChilPill said:

After this year they will have three good, and four bad, years under this coach. That's top 10 material?

he's top 10 in win percentage and consistently has had a good defense, which is hard to do year over year. obviously this year the defense isn't good but is still near the top of the league in things like 3rd down defense and in the red zone. us excelling in those areas despite the amount of injuries and inexperience on defense should be credit to zimmer.

 

again, he's not a perfect coach but he is a good one overall. 

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9 minutes ago, whitehops said:

he's top 10 in win percentage and consistently has had a good defense, which is hard to do year over year. obviously this year the defense isn't good but is still near the top of the league in things like 3rd down defense and in the red zone. us excelling in those areas despite the amount of injuries and inexperience on defense should be credit to zimmer.

 

again, he's not a perfect coach but he is a good one overall. 

It’s the good year, bad year, good year, bad year, yo-yo routine that is starting to grow old with some. 

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14 minutes ago, VikeManDan said:

It’s the good year, bad year, good year, bad year, yo-yo routine that is starting to grow old with some. 

no doubt, but the "elite group" of coaches that don't really have bad years and consistently have 12, 13-win seasons with only a few 8 or 9-win seasons mixed in are hard to find. and the 6 coaches with more seasons with their current team (belichick, reid, carroll, tomlin, payton, harbaugh) all have super bowl rings and a franchise QB besides harbaugh. 

 

i think if having one of those kinds of coaches is the expectation then a lot of people are going to be disappointed. imo zimmer has shown enough that he deserves a chance with a real franchise QB.

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2 hours ago, whitehops said:

no doubt, but the "elite group" of coaches that don't really have bad years and consistently have 12, 13-win seasons with only a few 8 or 9-win seasons mixed in are hard to find. and the 6 coaches with more seasons with their current team (belichick, reid, carroll, tomlin, payton, harbaugh) all have super bowl rings and a franchise QB besides harbaugh. 

 

i think if having one of those kinds of coaches is the expectation then a lot of people are going to be disappointed. imo zimmer has shown enough that he deserves a chance with a real franchise QB.

If Zimmer’s going to be the HC, which I really don’t object, the GM need to be replaced. Spielman has shown no ability to identify a QB. Unless the Vikes miraculously stumble into the first pick and get a chance to build around Trevor Lawrence (which I think Spielman could do), the Vikes need to make a GM change. 

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19 hours ago, VikeManDan said:

@Viking Penguin when I started to think about it, it does make sense. The Vikings are losing to better teams. The teams currently picking 1-5 are losing to worse teams. The fact that they can't beat those teams would indicate they are the worse team. Someone can probably explain it a little better.

Atlanta beat Minnesota, so they are better, no other way to slice it, Atlants should pick behind us. I understand the strength of schedule they're using, that's fine but Head to Head needs to always be the 1st tie breaker. After win/loss record.

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10 minutes ago, Viking Penguin said:

Atlanta beat Minnesota, so they are better, no other way to slice it, Atlants should pick behind us. I understand the strength of schedule they're using, that's fine but Head to Head needs to always be the 1st tie breaker. After win/loss record.

That would certainly be ideal.

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Given that the NFL  has a much higher amount of parity than the NBA, MLB, and NHL combined, I'm perfectly fine with the way the draft order is determined.

No one thinks the Raiders are a better team than the Chiefs despite the Raiders beating KC, but the Raiders were better for that one day.  The singular day doesn't outweigh the balance of the season.  Over the course of the season, if two teams have the same record and one team played a harder/easier schedule, it makes perfect sense to me that SoS should impact who selects higher in the draft.  Especially given that teams with the same record will still rotate picks throughout the draft.

All else equal, then factor in the head to head record (which is what is done).

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27 minutes ago, RpMc said:

Given that the NFL  has a much higher amount of parity than the NBA, MLB, and NHL combined, I'm perfectly fine with the way the draft order is determined.

No one thinks the Raiders are a better team than the Chiefs despite the Raiders beating KC, but the Raiders were better for that one day.  The singular day doesn't outweigh the balance of the season.  Over the course of the season, if two teams have the same record and one team played a harder/easier schedule, it makes perfect sense to me that SoS should impact who selects higher in the draft.  Especially given that teams with the same record will still rotate picks throughout the draft.

All else equal, then factor in the head to head record (which is what is done).

I agree, over the long-haul of the season. A little tough to swallow right now in week 7 but things will clear up regarding the draft order with each week that passes. 

I'd be curious how often it has happened that teams tied at the end of the season played each other that season. Didn't we have a coin toss pretty recently?

Just for general information, not directed at anyone.

Below taken from: https://operations.nfl.com/the-players/the-nfl-draft/the-rules-of-the-draft/

In situations where teams finished the previous season with identical records, the determination of draft position is decided by strength of schedule — the aggregate winning percentage of a team’s opponents. The team that played the schedule with the lowest winning percentage will be awarded the higher pick.

If the teams have the same strength of schedule, division or conference tiebreakers are applied. If the divisional or conference tiebreakers are not applicable, or ties still exist between teams of different conferences, ties will be broken the following tie-breaking method:

1. Head-to-head, if applicable
2. Best won-lost-tied percentage in common games (minimum of four)
3. Strength of victory in all games
4. Best combined ranking among all teams in points scored and points allowed in all games
5. Best net points in all games
6. Best net touchdowns in all games
7. Coin toss

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Yes, there was a coin toss in 2018 prior to the league adding the additional tiebreakers (2-6) in your list above.

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1 hour ago, RpMc said:

Yes, there was a coin toss in 2018 prior to the league adding the additional tiebreakers (2-6) in your list above.

Ok, so 2-6 were added after that happened. Was going to say pretty crazy if it got to a coin toss with those criteria. 

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