onejayhawk Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 (edited) 13 hours ago, samsel23 said: I think he rises, quite a bit, now that he officially declared. He was ranked in the mid 20’s on some lists before he said he’d return for his junior year. I’d put him neck and neck with Zaven Collins as the #2 LB, Probably the top as a pure MLB type. Still room to grow as a RS Sophomore He would have to rise quite a bit, because there are a couple of minor knocks against him--he's a MLB, which is not a highly sought position, he has very little tape, he's short, and that's if you believe his listed height, and he has been out of football a long time. He has the instincts and the athleticism, but he needs to measure and test well before I believe top 30 picks. That said, if you genuinely think he's a difference maker, fine, but we are not talking mid 20s. With all the small issues, he needs to be Micah Parsons good. Nick Bolton's another one. He's short, isn't a blitzer, played in an extremely friendly system, and may not test particularly well. Any time you see NFL ready it's code for limited upside. At this time I would not put him in the top 50. If he surprises at the All Star games and Combine, that can be adjusted. J Edited January 22, 2021 by onejayhawk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedGold Posted January 22, 2021 Author Share Posted January 22, 2021 1 hour ago, onejayhawk said: He would have to rise quite a bit, because there are a couple of minor knocks against him--he's a MLB, which is not a highly sought position, he has very little tape, he's short, and that's if you believe his listed height, and he has been out of football a long time. He has the instincts and the athleticism, but he needs to measure and test well before I believe top 30 picks. That said, if you genuinely think he's a difference maker, fine, but we are not talking mid 20s. With all the small issues, he needs to be Micah Parsons good. Nick Bolton's another one. He's short, isn't a blitzer, played in an extremely friendly system, and may not test particularly well. Any time you see NFL ready it's code for limited upside. At this time I would not put him in the top 50. If he surprises at the All Star games and Combine, that can be adjusted. J If he was Micah Parsons good, we wouldn’t be talking about it. Though Parsons and McGrone are totally different players, Parsons isn’t a MLB guy, McGrone is a legit MLB prospect. I don’t really care about his height, he doesn’t get overpowered in the big 10. MLB’s with his athleticism and skill set tend to be coveted, Bush and White both went early. His movement skills are that good, but he doesn’t have as much film. Being a RS Sophomore that’s to be expected, you’re taking him as much for what you can mold him into, as what he has shown already. He’s a better prospect than Bolton, who I wouldn’t take till the 2nd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mayanfootball Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 13 hours ago, kingseanjohn said: That's the thing about drafting at the end of rounds. If you want someone, you probably have to take them a round earlier than you may project them. Trading back a bit would be ideal, but it isn't guaranteed. Also, the dropoff between those players justifies "reaching" for me. At #32, you don't want to mess around and play games. The really good LB's, the ones that will impact the NFL, will disappear in the first 2 rounds. Later ones come with questions (medical, personal issues, ie. Justin Houston) and come with some risk involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onejayhawk Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 1 hour ago, samsel23 said: If he was Micah Parsons good, we wouldn’t be talking about it. Though Parsons and McGrone are totally different players, Parsons isn’t a MLB guy, McGrone is a legit MLB prospect. I don’t really care about his height, he doesn’t get overpowered in the big 10. MLB’s with his athleticism and skill set tend to be coveted, Bush and White both went early. His movement skills are that good, but he doesn’t have as much film. Being a RS Sophomore that’s to be expected, you’re taking him as much for what you can mold him into, as what he has shown already. He’s a better prospect than Bolton, who I wouldn’t take till the 2nd. For him to be a first round option, he needs to be the clear PBA. That means Parson's level of talent, partly because they are very different players. Off ball LB is NOT a coveted skillset. How many top 10 picks have there been in the last ten years? You have Luke Kuechley in 2012 and can make the argument for Roquan Smith. That's about it. If you want a comparable skillset, try Tremaine Edmunds. If you do not believe he is that good, he does not belong in the first round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedGold Posted January 22, 2021 Author Share Posted January 22, 2021 9 minutes ago, onejayhawk said: For him to be a first round option, he needs to be the clear PBA. That means Parson's level of talent, partly because they are very different players. Off ball LB is NOT a coveted skillset. How many top 10 picks have there been in the last ten years? You have Luke Kuechley in 2012 and can make the argument for Roquan Smith. That's about it. If you want a comparable skillset, try Tremaine Edmunds. If you do not believe he is that good, he does not belong in the first round. Why are we talking about Top 10 picks? We're talking about drafting a guy at 32 in this scenario.. Tremaine Edwards, Leighton Vander Esch, Roquan Smith, Rashaan Evans, Devin Bush, Devin White, Kenneth Murray, Jordyn Brooks, Patrick Queen are MLB's drafted in the first round just in the past 3 years. That's an average of 3 LB's taken in the first round the past 3 years, I think McGrone is the 3rd best LB in this class. I don't think MLB's that project good in all facets fall nearly as much. If anything, some of these guys were drafted too early.. as there isn't an abundance of good LB's in the league currently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedGold Posted January 22, 2021 Author Share Posted January 22, 2021 Here's a list of every teams starting MLB. I think you'll see the tend of teams reaching, a bit, for 3 Down MLB's in recent years. Those that haven't have typically overpaid for a vet, or don't have any options. There's maybe 2/3 players, that teams don't want a replacement... that the team either didn't spend a Top 40 selection, or pay handsomely in FA. Deion Jones, Bobby Wagner, Eric Kendricks are the obvious ones... though there is a trend in recent years that these guys don't drop as far. Fred Warner is one in recent years that did drop, but it doesn't happen as often as it used to. Drafted Drafted Year Chargers Kenneth Murray 23 2020 Ravens Patrick Queen 28 2020 Bengals Logan Wilson 65 2020 Packers Kamal Martin 175 2020 Steelers Devin Bush 10 2019 Bucs Devin White 5 2019 Lions Jahlani Tavai 43 2019 Browns Mack Wilson 155 2019 Eagles TJ Edwards Undrafted 2019 Bears Roquan Smith 8 2018 Bills Tremaine Edwards 16 2018 Cowboys Leighton Vander Esch 19 2018 Titans Rashaan Evans 22 2018 Colts Darius Leonard 36 2018 49ers Fred Warner 70 2018 Dolphins Jerome Baker 73 2018 Broncos Josey Jewell 106 2018 Patriots Ja'Whaun Bentley 143 2018 Rams Micah Kiser 147 2018 Falcons Deion Jones 52 2016 Jaguars Joe Schobert 99 2016 FA Raiders Nick Kwatkoski 113 2016 FA Giants Blake Martinez 131 2016 FA Cardinals Jordan Hicks 8 2015 FA Panthers Shaq Thompson 25 2015 Texans Benardrick McKinney 43 2015 Vikings Eric Kendricks 52 2015 Jets CJ Mosley 17 2014 Chiefs Anthony Hitchens 119 2014 FA Redskins Jon Bostic 50 2013 Seahawks Bobby Wagner 47 2012 Saints Demario Davis 77 2012 FA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mayanfootball Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 (edited) I know it's early but "thedraftnetwork" simulator, 1st round DP's at LB (4) gave me the following: 9 Micah Parsons, Denver; 15 Jeremiah O-K, Patriots; 26 Zaven Collins, Cleveland; 28 Nick Bolton, New Orleans With the exception of Parsons, I think McGrone compares favorably to any 1st round LB and would be a welcome addition to the Chiefs. Edited January 22, 2021 by mayanfootball Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onejayhawk Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 You have about five LB not draft more for pass rush than 4 hours ago, samsel23 said: Here's a list of every teams starting MLB. I think you'll see the tend of teams reaching, a bit, for 3 Down MLB's in recent years. Those that haven't have typically overpaid for a vet, or don't have any options. There's maybe 2/3 players, that teams don't want a replacement... that the team either didn't spend a Top 40 selection, or pay handsomely in FA. Deion Jones, Bobby Wagner, Eric Kendricks are the obvious ones... though there is a trend in recent years that these guys don't drop as far. Fred Warner is one in recent years that did drop, but it doesn't happen as often as it used to. Drafted Drafted Year Chargers Kenneth Murray 23 2020 Ravens Patrick Queen 28 2020 Bengals Logan Wilson 65 2020 Packers Kamal Martin 175 2020 Steelers Devin Bush 10 2019 Bucs Devin White 5 2019 Lions Jahlani Tavai 43 2019 Browns Mack Wilson 155 2019 Eagles TJ Edwards Undrafted 2019 Bears Roquan Smith 8 2018 Bills Tremaine Edwards 16 2018 Cowboys Leighton Vander Esch 19 2018 Titans Rashaan Evans 22 2018 Colts Darius Leonard 36 2018 49ers Fred Warner 70 2018 Dolphins Jerome Baker 73 2018 Broncos Josey Jewell 106 2018 Patriots Ja'Whaun Bentley 143 2018 Rams Micah Kiser 147 2018 Falcons Deion Jones 52 2016 Jaguars Joe Schobert 99 2016 FA Raiders Nick Kwatkoski 113 2016 FA Giants Blake Martinez 131 2016 FA Cardinals Jordan Hicks 8 2015 FA Panthers Shaq Thompson 25 2015 Texans Benardrick McKinney 43 2015 Vikings Eric Kendricks 52 2015 Jets CJ Mosley 17 2014 Chiefs Anthony Hitchens 119 2014 FA Redskins Jon Bostic 50 2013 Seahawks Bobby Wagner 47 2012 Saints Demario Davis 77 2012 FA You don't help your case. Most of these are 2nd to 4th round players. Devin Bush I give you. Devin White is a pass rusher. Roquan Smith I already mentioned. Edwards and Vander Esch are your best comps. You need to be confident that McGrone is at least as good as either of those two to take him at #32. If you are confident he will be better than either of them, then you position is justified, but I don't see the basis for that assertion. J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedGold Posted January 23, 2021 Author Share Posted January 23, 2021 Yeah I think we’ll just call it quits if you’re saying Devin White was drafted as a more of a pass rusher. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullyball Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 3 hours ago, onejayhawk said: You have about five LB not draft more for pass rush than You don't help your case. Most of these are 2nd to 4th round players. Devin Bush I give you. Devin White is a pass rusher. Roquan Smith I already mentioned. Edwards and Vander Esch are your best comps. You need to be confident that McGrone is at least as good as either of those two to take him at #32. If you are confident he will be better than either of them, then you position is justified, but I don't see the basis for that assertion. J 1 hour ago, samsel23 said: Yeah I think we’ll just call it quits if you’re saying Devin White was drafted as a more of a pass rusher. Yeah Devin White is definitely not a pass rusher. He was drafted because of his insane athleticism, sideline to sideline range and his potential in coverage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onejayhawk Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 2 hours ago, samsel23 said: Yeah I think we’ll just call it quits if you’re saying Devin White was drafted as a more of a pass rusher. You said more of a pass rusher, not me. I said that it was a significant part of his toolkit, which sets him apart from the others. J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onejayhawk Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 1 hour ago, Bullyball said: Yeah Devin White is definitely not a pass rusher. He was drafted because of his insane athleticism, sideline to sideline range and his potential in coverage. I'm with you until the last phrase. If you had said potential as a blitzer we would be good. J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedGold Posted January 23, 2021 Author Share Posted January 23, 2021 3 minutes ago, onejayhawk said: You said more of a pass rusher, not me. I said that it was a significant part of his toolkit, which sets him apart from the others. J You literally said Devin White is a pass rusher. I wouldn’t have said it. He was drafted for his potential in all packages. P. Queen, K. Murray, R. Evans. Are just the players that snuck into the first round because teams are looking for 3 down MLB’s. All more 2/3 Round guys 1 month predraft. Than you have your L. Wilson, J. Tavai, and D. Leonard. All drafted at least half a round earlier than projected. I’m sorry but MLB’s that project for 3 Downs aren’t falling, if anything they are going earlier. I’d see the argument if you were talking about strictly coverage OLB’s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onejayhawk Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 9 hours ago, samsel23 said: You literally said Devin White is a pass rusher. I wouldn’t have said it. He was drafted for his potential in all packages. P. Queen, K. Murray, R. Evans. Are just the players that snuck into the first round because teams are looking for 3 down MLB’s. All more 2/3 Round guys 1 month predraft. Than you have your L. Wilson, J. Tavai, and D. Leonard. All drafted at least half a round earlier than projected. I’m sorry but MLB’s that project for 3 Downs aren’t falling, if anything they are going earlier. I’d see the argument if you were talking about strictly coverage OLB’s. Queen has a fair amount of pass rush in his resume too. The problem with these guys is simply that they are too recent. With White, you can see from his usage that the Steelers looked at his skillset and thought penetration specialist. Hence pass rush. I am not sure what you are implying about Wilson and Tavai. One was second round and the other third. Leonard is another player with the pass rush box checked. I don't think we are far apart, just approaching from opposite directions. You put it as three down LB, meaning they need to have skills against both run and pass. That can be superior coverage or pass rush, with pass rush being more valuable. In White's case, the Steeler's scheme utilizes him as one of the principle pass rushers. The point is that they probably had that scheme in mind when they drafted him, even though not everyone did. Let me try and reframe this. How do you envision us using McGrane if things work out. Is he a rangy sideline to sideline tackler with superior coverage, like DJ, a mobile head thumper with blitz potential, or some other mix? I mention DJ because he is the type of player they seem to have had in mind when they picked Gay. J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mayanfootball Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 1 hour ago, onejayhawk said: Let me try and reframe this. How do you envision us using McGrane if things work out. Is he a rangy sideline to sideline tackler with superior coverage, like DJ, a mobile head thumper with blitz potential, or some other mix? I mention DJ because he is the type of player they seem to have had in mind when they picked Gay. I envision him tackling between the numbers. Key word TACKLING, which i haven't seen our LB's do much of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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