Jump to content

NCAA Basketball Thread: '21-22


NYRaider

Recommended Posts

12 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said:

If he has to wait until 2022, why do it in HS at his dads fake school?  Go to college and get big NIL money for two years instead of 1.  Unless he is afraid of being exposed as a fraud.  But the NIL money is significantly higher in college than it is in HS for someone of his stature. I don't see the NBA making an exception for him unless they just change the rule.  Would not be a good look for them to let one guy slide.  

Why'd he wait so long to reclassify? University classes begin in a couple of weeks. They've been saying 2022 is the year that they're going to allow 18 year olds enter the draft for 3 years now. I think someone in his camp has spoken to someone in the know and probably has confirmation that the rule change will be announced this year. I mean why would he be considering the G-League? Do you really think he wants to play 2 seasons on the Ignite team or that Adam Silver would want the best young prospect in basketball on that team for 2 years? Hell no, lol. 

And in Emoni's case is it really that big of an exception? If he was born 29 days earlier then he'd be draft eligible. They should just change the rule so that if a player turns 19 during the regular season in the year he's drafted then he's eligible, not sure why it's the calendar year. 

Sekou Doumbouya is a perfect example, he was 18 when he was drafted and turned 19 on December 23 of his rookie season. If Emoni Bates were to enter the draft he'd be 18 when he's drafted and turn 19 on January 28. Just a dumb rule in general and honestly if they are going to change it to 18 for anyone or to 19 during the regular season, Bates is the type of prospect that the league would do it for. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

55 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

Why'd he wait so long to reclassify? University classes begin in a couple of weeks. They've been saying 2022 is the year that they're going to allow 18 year olds enter the draft for 3 years now. I think someone in his camp has spoken to someone in the know and probably has confirmation that the rule change will be announced this year. I mean why would he be considering the G-League? Do you really think he wants to play 2 seasons on the Ignite team or that Adam Silver would want the best young prospect in basketball on that team for 2 years? Hell no, lol. 

And in Emoni's case is it really that big of an exception? If he was born 29 days earlier then he'd be draft eligible. They should just change the rule so that if a player turns 19 during the regular season in the year he's drafted then he's eligible, not sure why it's the calendar year. 

Sekou Doumbouya is a perfect example, he was 18 when he was drafted and turned 19 on December 23 of his rookie season. If Emoni Bates were to enter the draft he'd be 18 when he's drafted and turn 19 on January 28. Just a dumb rule in general and honestly if they are going to change it to 18 for anyone or to 19 during the regular season, Bates is the type of prospect that the league would do it for. 

I agree it’s a dumb rule.  But unless they change it, exceptions seem risky for the NBA.  It will pretty much just force them to change it as everyone would be asking for exceptions.  So they have to either change it to turning 19 prior to the end of the next season or just let HS grads go again. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Sllim Pickens said:

I agree it’s a dumb rule.  But unless they change it, exceptions seem risky for the NBA.  It will pretty much just force them to change it as everyone would be asking for exceptions.  So they have to either change it to turning 19 prior to the end of the next season or just let HS grads go again. 

They should just let HS grads go again, especially with the NIL in place now, if guys want to go pro, let them go pro. Difficult to see many guys choosing to go the G-League route when they can make more playing for a major college basketball program. 2022 has reportedly been the year the rules would change, lets see what Adam Silver does. 

I'd say the G-League Ignite experiment has kind of been a failure. Sure Jalen Green and Jonathan Kuminga were still drafted highly, but they were going to be drafted highly regardless of where they played last season. But for guys like Kai Sotto, Daishen Nix, and Princepal Signh that went un-drafted, what's next? They'll be in the G-League next year on an average salary ($35k) fighting for a roster spot. Even Isaiah Todd, who got drafted in the 2nd round, won't get a guaranteed contract like he would have if he would've been picked in the top 30. 

Todd was a 5* recruit who was committed to Michigan originally before deciding to go the G-League route. That $500k is chump change in the long run in comparison to what he would've been paid had he been a 1st round pick. For example Aaron Nesmith, last year's 14th pick, signed a 4 yr/$16.5M contract, fully guaranteed. Tyrell Terry, last year's 31st pick (where Todd was taken), signed a 4 yr/$4.4M contract, which is not fully guaranteed. If Todd would've went to Michigan he could've returned for his sophomore season, likely made 6 figures with the NIL, and put himself in a position to drafted much higher next year. Nix and Signh are both reportedly going to be back on the Ignite team next year after going undrafted, lol. 

For the Ignite team next season Jalen Hardy is likely going to be a lottery pick, Michael Foster will be in a similar position to where Isaiah Todd found himself this year, and Scoota Henderson projects as a lottery pick but will have to play for them for 2 seasons due to the current draft age rules. 

I just don't see the point of forcing top players to play for a make shift team in a developmental league for a year instead of letting them declare for the draft. Especially considering the risk that comes with going the G-League route and then going undrafted. For guys that go to college at least they can return to school and improve their draft stock, the Ignite guys really get one swing and that's it. 

With the NIL allowing guys to get paid while playing in college, I think it's time for them to just get rid of the one-n-done rule and let guys make the leap straight to the NBA if they're good enough.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Quote

The star Oregon Ducks defensive end announced Tuesday evening he would be collaborating with Nike co-founder/CEO Phil Knight and shoe designer Tinker Hatfield to design non-fungible token (NFT) artwork. “Life is filled with many trials and tribulations,” Thibodeaux wrote on Twitter, “but God has guided my steps and provided me with great opportunities AND the clarity to navigate them with wisdom and integrity. It holds true that God brings people in your life for a reason and I’ve been so fortunate to have both Phil Knight, creator of Nike, and Tinker Hatfield, Designer of some of the most popular Air Jordans, believe in me and my prophecy. I’m honored to announce my first collaboration with Phil Knight — the Kayvon Thibodeaux Art piece, created by Tinker Hatfield, inspired by my success on the field.”

@Oregon Ducks Emoni are you listening?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, NYRaider said:

And in Emoni's case is it really that big of an exception? If he was born 29 days earlier then he'd be draft eligible. They should just change the rule so that if a player turns 19 during the regular season in the year he's drafted then he's eligible, not sure why it's the calendar year. 

Sekou Doumbouya is a perfect example, he was 18 when he was drafted and turned 19 on December 23 of his rookie season. If Emoni Bates were to enter the draft he'd be 18 when he's drafted and turn 19 on January 28. Just a dumb rule in general and honestly if they are going to change it to 18 for anyone or to 19 during the regular season, Bates is the type of prospect that the league would do it for. 

The worst example of this is with Victor Wembanyama. He was born January 4th, 2004. So because he was born four days too late, he can’t enter the 2022 draft and has to wait until 2023. So dumb.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, NYRaider said:

They should just let HS grads go again, especially with the NIL in place now, if guys want to go pro, let them go pro. Difficult to see many guys choosing to go the G-League route when they can make more playing for a major college basketball program. 2022 has reportedly been the year the rules would change, lets see what Adam Silver does. 

I'd say the G-League Ignite experiment has kind of been a failure. Sure Jalen Green and Jonathan Kuminga were still drafted highly, but they were going to be drafted highly regardless of where they played last season. But for guys like Kai Sotto, Daishen Nix, and Princepal Signh that went un-drafted, what's next? They'll be in the G-League next year on an average salary ($35k) fighting for a roster spot. Even Isaiah Todd, who got drafted in the 2nd round, won't get a guaranteed contract like he would have if he would've been picked in the top 30. 

Todd was a 5* recruit who was committed to Michigan originally before deciding to go the G-League route. That $500k is chump change in the long run in comparison to what he would've been paid had he been a 1st round pick. For example Aaron Nesmith, last year's 14th pick, signed a 4 yr/$16.5M contract, fully guaranteed. Tyrell Terry, last year's 31st pick (where Todd was taken), signed a 4 yr/$4.4M contract, which is not fully guaranteed. If Todd would've went to Michigan he could've returned for his sophomore season, likely made 6 figures with the NIL, and put himself in a position to drafted much higher next year. Nix and Signh are both reportedly going to be back on the Ignite team next year after going undrafted, lol. 

For the Ignite team next season Jalen Hardy is likely going to be a lottery pick, Michael Foster will be in a similar position to where Isaiah Todd found himself this year, and Scoota Henderson projects as a lottery pick but will have to play for them for 2 seasons due to the current draft age rules. 

I just don't see the point of forcing top players to play for a make shift team in a developmental league for a year instead of letting them declare for the draft. Especially considering the risk that comes with going the G-League route and then going undrafted. For guys that go to college at least they can return to school and improve their draft stock, the Ignite guys really get one swing and that's it. 

With the NIL allowing guys to get paid while playing in college, I think it's time for them to just get rid of the one-n-done rule and let guys make the leap straight to the NBA if they're good enough.

The 1 and done rule isnt there for the kids though, its to protect the NBA form the Robert Swifts, Ndudi Ebi, etc.  A lot of them had decent careers but were overpaid on their first contracts.  They didn't want to keep wasting draft capital and wanted the kids to prove themselves for a year first at least.  It has improved the top few picks in the draft but there are still plenty of busts.  But guys like Brandon Boston Jr, Terrance Clarke, Isaiah Stewart, etc would have been top 5 picks.  It was just for scouting purposes and to get a free year of development for the young guys instead of having to pay them 5M a year or more to do so in the league.  Kuminga is one example.  He still was drafted high, but not as high as he likely would have been had he been draft eligible last year.  The NBA never cared about players getting paid in college, and still don't. 

My concern is the NCAA NIL has the opposite effect you are saying.  It will take some of the pressure off the NBA from people saying these kids should be allowed to earn a living if they have the talent because they now can.  Maybe Bates pushes them to change the rule to being 19 by the end of the next season but with NIL in place, NCAA is still a good cheap filter for the NBA.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, TitanSlim said:

The worst example of this is with Victor Wembanyama. He was born January 4th, 2004. So because he was born four days too late, he can’t enter the 2022 draft and has to wait until 2023. So dumb.

Rule will likely be changed for 2022. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Sllim Pickens said:

The 1 and done rule isnt there for the kids though, its to protect the NBA form the Robert Swifts, Ndudi Ebi, etc.  A lot of them had decent careers but were overpaid on their first contracts.  They didn't want to keep wasting draft capital and wanted the kids to prove themselves for a year first at least.  It has improved the top few picks in the draft but there are still plenty of busts.  But guys like Brandon Boston Jr, Terrance Clarke, Isaiah Stewart, etc would have been top 5 picks.  It was just for scouting purposes and to get a free year of development for the young guys instead of having to pay them 5M a year or more to do so in the league.  Kuminga is one example.  He still was drafted high, but not as high as he likely would have been had he been draft eligible last year.  The NBA never cared about players getting paid in college, and still don't. 

My concern is the NCAA NIL has the opposite effect you are saying.  It will take some of the pressure off the NBA from people saying these kids should be allowed to earn a living if they have the talent because they now can.  Maybe Bates pushes them to change the rule to being 19 by the end of the next season but with NIL in place, NCAA is still a good cheap filter for the NBA.  

High school players didn't bust at a higher rate than any other type of draftee. Bad GM'ing isn't an excuse to ban players from entering your league for a year.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Sllim Pickens said:

The 1 and done rule isnt there for the kids though, its to protect the NBA form the Robert Swifts, Ndudi Ebi, etc.  A lot of them had decent careers but were overpaid on their first contracts.  They didn't want to keep wasting draft capital and wanted the kids to prove themselves for a year first at least.  It has improved the top few picks in the draft but there are still plenty of busts.  

In the modern era (3P line added) from 1980 to 2005 there were 29 players that made the jump from HS to the NBA and were 1st round picks. Of those 29 players, 17 of them were selected in the lottery. 

Those 17 lottery picks include all-time greats like LeBron James, Kevin Garnett, Tracy McGrady, and Kobe Bryant. They also include very good/All-Star caliber players such as Amar'e Stoudemire, Andrew Bynum, Dwight Howard, and Tyson Chandler. So 8/17, essentially half, of the kids that made the jump and were taken in the lottery had good to HOF careers. 

Of course there were a few guys that were total busts including guys like Robert Swift, Sebastian Telfair, Kwame Brown, DeSagana Dipo, and Jonathan Bender.

Then you have guys that kind of fall in the middle with Darius Miles, Eddy Curry, Shaun Livingston, and Martell Webster. Livingston showed promise but blew his knee out and still went on to have a pretty good career. Curry was a 20 ppg scorer at one point in his career but also couldn't stay healthy. Darius Miles had some solid seasons but another guy that couldn't stay healthy. And Webster looked like he was starting to figure it out in his 4th year before he also was derailed by injuries. 

So of the 17 guys that made the jump and were taken in the lottery, nearly half of them were very good NBA players, a quarter of them were total busts, and a quarter of them showed promise but couldn't stay healthy. 

Of the 12 guys that were non-lottery 1st round picks you had Jermaine O'Neale (great career), Al Jefferson (very good career), Josh Smith (good career), JR Smith (solid career), Gerald Green (okay-ish career), Dorell Wright (okay-ish career), DeShawn Stevenson (solid career), Travis Outlaw (okay-ish career), Al Harrington (good career), Ndubi Ebi (bust), Kendrick Perkins (solid career), and Leon Smith (never played). So 10/12 of those guys had from okay-ish careers where they were role players to pretty good careers were they were All-Star caliber players at some point with guys like O'Neale, Jefferson, Harrington, and Smith. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 minutes ago, Bullet Club said:

High school players didn't bust at a higher rate than any other type of draftee. Bad GM'ing isn't an excuse to ban players from entering your league for a year.

Exactly see my post above. Essentially half of the players that made the jump from HS to the NBA and were selected in the lottery have had HOF careers, lol. And only 17 guys were taken in the lottery during that 25 year period so to act like every top recruit would just automatically be a lottery pick is just not true at all. 

Not to mention teams have so much more access to young players now then they did in the 1980-2005 era. They don't have to send scouts to some random HS gym to watch the top prospects play. Most of the top guys are playing at major programs that play national schedules with games on ESPN. As well as for major AAU teams against the best players in the country all summer and for the youth Team USA program in international events. 

Realistically there are 1-2 guys in any given class that are actually ready to make the jump. And with the NBA combine and guys being allowed to receive feedback from teams before making their decision, I think the ones that aren't ready would find out very quickly. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, Bullet Club said:

High school players didn't bust at a higher rate than any other type of draftee. Bad GM'ing isn't an excuse to ban players from entering your league for a year.

I agree, but they get an extra year of development for free and scouting is better so they don't waste high picks on guys that were HS stars. Kobe you could see his talent, but he really didn't breakout until year 3/4.  Garnett was pretty good in year 2 and 3 but really broke out in year 4.  McGrady wasn't much until year 3 or 4. Howard had a solid rookie year but really took off in year 3.  Amare showed out in year 2 but he was really old for a highschool kid (turned 20 at the beginning of his rookie year).  

The one and done hits seem to be hitting earlier, giving NBA teams more years of better player on cheap deals.  Kobe played 3 years on a crap contract before signing a big (for the time) extension right when he was breaking out.  

I agree bad GMing isnt a reason to have the rule, but its a rule for a reason, and it sure isn't there to protect the kids at all. Its there to give NBA teams more control of the better part of these guys careers for cheaper.    

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Sllim Pickens said:

He still was drafted high, but not as high as he likely would have been had he been draft eligible last year.  The NBA never cared about players getting paid in college, and still don't. 

My concern is the NCAA NIL has the opposite effect you are saying.  It will take some of the pressure off the NBA from people saying these kids should be allowed to earn a living if they have the talent because they now can.  Maybe Bates pushes them to change the rule to being 19 by the end of the next season but with NIL in place, NCAA is still a good cheap filter for the NBA.  

He never would've been draft eligible last year either way though, he reclassified to play in the G-League. Would him going 4th instead of 7th really made that much of a difference? The league clearly cares about amateur athletes getting paid or why did they create the Ignite team in the first place as an alternative for top prospects that didn't want to play in college? 

And agree to disagree. I think the NIL will put more pressure on the league to abandon the one-n-done rule and move away from the Ignite program. The Ignite program was appealing to top prospects because it provided them a means to get paid the year in between HS and the draft. Now that top prospects can make more playing for a major college basketball program while also having more flexibility (can return to school if they're not ready), play against players their own age, and build their brand playing in front of a national audience, why would they choose to go the G-League route? 

Cade Cunningham, Jalen Green, and Zion Williamson are all great examples. Green got paid $500k but no one saw him play at all last season so he didn't really develop his personal brand and isn't really a household name coming into the league. Cade/Zion were all over ESPN throughout the college season and I'd imagine both would've cleared 7 figures easily if the NIL had been in place.

Regardless though Zion Williamson signed a multi-year shoe deal with Nike worth $10M per year before he ever stepped foot on the court. Cade Cunningham reportedly signed a multi-year deal with Nike worth between $6-8M per year. While Jalen Green signed a deal with Adidas worth $2M per year. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.




×
×
  • Create New...