DannyB Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 3 minutes ago, JAF-N72EX said: Then how do you stop an OL from doing the same without penalizing him? What do you mean? I'm not sure I understand the question. As it is now if the OL moves first it's a false start no matter what, the defense doesn't need to react in any way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAF-N72EX Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 Just now, waterfish_21 said: Explain. That's just one example of many issues this would cause. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turnobili Posted October 14, 2020 Author Share Posted October 14, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, JAF-N72EX said: That's just one example of many issues this would cause. Addressed in the OP. I recongized the spirit of the rule what what it seeks to prevent, but I find it unnecessary. Offensive players have the decided advantage of actually knowing the snap count. They have no reason to react to defenders. I mean this is the whole concept of hard counts. You stay stoic knowing that they might react. Heck in some cases a guy like Bakhtiari doesn't even listen for the count, he turns his head and actually looks at the ball for every snap despite being a left tackle. Sure, I'm giving the defense more leeway than the offense, who get flagged for the slightest twitch... but it works out fine because the offense (and sometimes Troy Polamalu) has the unique benefit of knowing the snap count and don't have to wait for physical queues. Edited October 14, 2020 by Turnobili Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waterfish_21 Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 1 minute ago, DannyB said: Yeah I know, there was a move like a decade or so ago to remove as many judgment calls as possible. I'm just saying, I think it certain circumstances I think it's okay. And yes I know offsides is more of a black and white call, thanks. This is hard thing to really do imo. The NBA either thought about or did fine players for flopping as it is out of control. It's worse than soccer now and the game is unwatchable. As much as I like the rule/attempt players still tried to game it. It's super hard to get right, that's why I like the idea of just calling it offsides or not. Also the blocking rule in the NBA is not black and white like this, but I think it has similar parallels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAF-N72EX Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 Just now, DannyB said: What do you mean? I'm not sure I understand the question. As it is now if the OL moves first it's a false start no matter what, the defense doesn't need to react in any way. This is the crux of the decision to remove NZI and why I asked this. How is it fair to expect the OL to not move at all while it's okay for the DL to do it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malfatron Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 Many people here are NZI sympathizers I see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waterfish_21 Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 4 minutes ago, JAF-N72EX said: That's just one example of many issues this would cause. I disagree with this. The play starts on the snap of the ball. It always has. If the OL is moving before that, they are bad players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turnobili Posted October 14, 2020 Author Share Posted October 14, 2020 1 minute ago, JAF-N72EX said: This is the crux of the decision to remove NZI and why I asked this. How is it fair to expect the OL to not move at all while it's okay for the DL to do it? They have exclusive knowledge of the snap count. They don't need to react to physical queues to know when to start moving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turnobili Posted October 14, 2020 Author Share Posted October 14, 2020 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Malfatron said: Many people here are NZI sympathizers I see. filthy NZI supporters... look guys, Rodgers is the GOAT at goading offsides penalties, but you know what, they snap the ball and take a deep shot. they dont have bakhtiari start doing the macarena to draw a measley 5 yard penalty Edited October 14, 2020 by Turnobili 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyB Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 3 minutes ago, waterfish_21 said: This is hard thing to really do imo. The NBA either thought about or did fine players for flopping as it is out of control. It's worse than soccer now and the game is unwatchable. As much as I like the rule/attempt players still tried to game it. It's super hard to get right, that's why I like the idea of just calling it offsides or not. Also the blocking rule in the NBA is not black and white like this, but I think it has similar parallels. I think NZI issues would come up way less frequently than flopping does in basketball and soccer. I just think there should be leeway for a ref to be like, dude stay in your stance, no call for you. I'm guessing 90% of them would stay NZI, but hopefully it de-incentivizes the purposely popping up and pointing a full second after a jump. I really don't think it would be that hard. If in doubt, NZI. But if it's egregious the ref should be able to make the call. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAF-N72EX Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 Just now, Turnobili said: They have exclusive knowledge of the snap count. They don't need to react to physical queues to know when to start moving. This doesn't take away from the natural reaction that a player(s) would have if that NZI was not in place. Again, you would end up with all DL just jump back forth on the line pre-snap and a whole lot of terrible offensive calls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turnobili Posted October 14, 2020 Author Share Posted October 14, 2020 Just now, JAF-N72EX said: This doesn't take away from the natural reaction that a player(s) would have if that NZI was not in place. Again, you would end up with all DL just jump back forth on the line pre-snap and a whole lot of terrible offensive calls. you think they'd intentionally risk giving up free plays all the time? any offense with a semblance of discipline would shred that team and stop that gimmick within 2-3 plays. just imagine trying to pull that off against rodgers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAF-N72EX Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 2 minutes ago, DannyB said: I think NZI issues would come up way less frequently than flopping does in basketball and soccer. I just think there should be leeway for a ref to be like, dude stay in your stance, no call for you. I'm guessing 90% of them would stay NZI, but hopefully it de-incentivizes the purposely popping up and pointing a full second after a jump. I really don't think it would be that hard. If in doubt, NZI. But if it's egregious the ref should be able to make the call. Leaving any decision to the refs nowadays is not easy, to the least. I know you already stated this this part before, I'm just emphasizing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waterfish_21 Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 1 minute ago, DannyB said: I think NZI issues would come up way less frequently than flopping does in basketball and soccer. I just think there should be leeway for a ref to be like, dude stay in your stance, no call for you. I'm guessing 90% of them would stay NZI, but hopefully it de-incentivizes the purposely popping up and pointing a full second after a jump. I really don't think it would be that hard. If in doubt, NZI. But if it's egregious the ref should be able to make the call. I get that, and there are many times when this happens, I watch Packers lineman jump and immediately point, I see it more around the league now too. They have been coached to do it. Getting rid of NZI would be a great way to de-incentivize this, imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAF-N72EX Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 1 minute ago, Turnobili said: you think they'd intentionally risk giving up free plays all the time? any offense with a semblance of discipline would shred that team and stop that gimmick within 2-3 plays. just imagine trying to pull that off against rodgers There would be and abundant of bad calls, yes. And not every QB is Rodgers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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