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Let's Talk About.. Derek Carr

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5 hours ago, Hunter2_1 said:

Jacobs and Crosby spring to mind. Ruggs this year also.

I don’t know how that qualifies him to be a tremendous draft artist. I’m sure there are some misses in there as well. 

Think we need more time to evaluate him. He’s been overhyped, in my opinion, even while working NFL.com, even though he seemed to be one of the more competent draft analysts. Time will tell though 

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20 minutes ago, rocky_rams said:

I don’t know how that qualifies him to be a tremendous draft artist. I’m sure there are some misses in there as well. 

Think we need more time to evaluate him. He’s been overhyped, in my opinion, even while working NFL.com, even though he seemed to be one of the more competent draft analysts. Time will tell though 

definitely need more time as hes only had two drafts. but so far, his first round picks have been:
Clelin Ferrell - I think everyone can agree at 4 it was a reach. He just had a heck of a game, but 4 was def a reach.
Jacobs - at 24 some say was an easy pick, but, he still did it and jacobs is a stud
Jonathan Abrams - has been injured a lot, and play style will cause that - jury out on this, very hot and cold player - missed all of last year.
Henry Ruggs - has changed our O. His speed is a difference maker - jury still out, but in a loaded WR draft class, he took his guy over the consensus and seems to be working out (very early)
Damon Arnette - played pretty well all things considered for a rookie CB, and got injured.

Impact players he found after the first:
Treyvon Mullens - CB - this guy is a stud for us so far. looks to be a very very good CB
Max Crosby - def has his faults, (doesnt set an edge) but for a 4th round pick to hit 10 sacks in rookie year, and doing well this year
Hunter Renfrow - guy is never going to show up on the stat sheet, but when raiders need a big catch he is our guy. 
Foster Moreau - Guy is a very solid TE #2 for us. 
Alec Ingold (UDFA) - guy is a very versatile FB, love having him on our team. 

--- 
As @BayRaider said, his FA signings have been rough lol. But what I like about him, he is at least addressing our weaknesses. FA is tough, the guys get cut/ let go for a reason, he is bringing in players to help our weaknesses. 

--
yes - there have def been some misses - lynn bowden we took in the 3rd this year and already trade him. and tough again to already call someone a complete miss, but there have been a few other questionable moves, but all in all, i trust his decisions. 

but yes, i do agree we need to give him more time. You cannot really judge a draft class after 1 year and 5 games. But, I am very happy Mayock is on the raiders. 

Edited by BackinBlack
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22 hours ago, BayRaider said:

Carr would be a steal at 20M if Mayock didn’t keep signing horrendous Free Agents like WR Tyrell Williams, NCB LaMarcus Joyner (worst NCB in the league), OT Trent Brown (best RT in the league when he plays, but he’s injured soooo often), LB Cory Littleton (very below average, putting it mildly...), and DT Maliek Collins (horrible, horrible). 
 

The only good FA he has signed is LB Nick Kwiatkowski who has been absolutely tremendous for us. 
 

Mayock, tremendous draft artist and thankful to have him, no idea what he’s doing in Free Agency though lol. 

Not so sure, Agholor appears to be a great and very cheap addition, Nevin Lawson has been excellent and cheap, Richie Incognito has been superb and as you say, Kwiatkoski looks from limited playing time to be a great addition. Booker has done reasonably well too.

Littleton and Collins have some time and could still improve though they have been the biggest let downs. Brown hopefully stays healthy. Mayock hasn't been a big hit in FA but he hasn't been that terrible.  

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At his best, Carr can show elite flashes. At his worst, it can be ugly. That being said, how many qb's have beaten KC this year, especially with a porous defense?

It's definitely not all him (and I don't give him the blame in losses necessarily either), but he's an excellent quarterback and is someone a lot of teams in the NFL would be happy to have IMO.

Keep this in mind. If Carr was coached by one good offensive coach his whole career, like Sean Payton/Andy Reid/etc, he would have lost some of his bad habits a lot earlier and showed more of this earlier in his career. He has gone through so many skill position groups/OC's, etc.

Gruden is finally putting Carr in the gun where he excels. He's always had the ability to go down the field when given talent. 

I've seen lows from him, but on a team this riddled with dysfunction over the years, can you expect any less?

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On 10/16/2020 at 8:40 AM, rocky_rams said:

I don’t know how that qualifies him to be a tremendous draft artist. I’m sure there are some misses in there as well. 

It's hard to judge him because it's such a small sample size but our rookie class last year was one of the most productive rookie classes in NFL history and were a key reason that we were in the playoff hunt late in the season. 

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On 10/16/2020 at 1:50 PM, MrOaktown_56 said:

At his best, Carr can show elite flashes. At his worst, it can be ugly. 

Carr's underrated for sure, at his worst I wouldn't say it's ugly he's just way too conservative at times. In 2018 he got screwed because we killed team morale trading Mack right before the seasons started and then traded Cooper early on as well. In 2019 he got screwed because we lost AB right before the season started and then lost Tyrell Williams super early in the year as well. 

But even in 18/19 he passed for 9,113 yards, 40 TD, 18 INT while completing 69% of his passes with 7.6 Y/A. He was one of only 8 QB's along with Phillip Rivers, Patrick Mahomes, Jared Goff, Matt Ryan, Tom Brady, Carson Wentz, and Aaron Rodgers to throw for 4,000+ yards in both 2018 and 2019. 

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On 10/16/2020 at 10:22 AM, Darbsk said:

Not so sure, Agholor appears to be a great and very cheap addition, Nevin Lawson has been excellent and cheap, Richie Incognito has been superb and as you say, Kwiatkoski looks from limited playing time to be a great addition. Booker has done reasonably well too.

Littleton and Collins have some time and could still improve though they have been the biggest let downs. Brown hopefully stays healthy. Mayock hasn't been a big hit in FA but he hasn't been that terrible.  

Benson Mayowa was an underrated signing as well. And he also made the decision to skip on drafting a TE early or sign a veteran TE in free agency so that Waller could have a chance to start for us. 

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8 hours ago, NYRaider said:

 

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IMO Peter Schrager is wrong suggesting that. 
Maybe in terms of how many contributors this draft has it's one of the best?
But in terms of truly great players I don't think it will be the case (although it's still really early in their career)

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2 hours ago, MagicMT said:

IMO Peter Schrager is wrong suggesting that. 
Maybe in terms of how many contributors this draft has it's one of the best?
But in terms of truly great players I don't think it will be the case (although it's still really early in their career)

Based on their performance collectively as a rookie class he said they might be the best rookie class we've seen the last 10 years. 

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2 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

Based on their performance collectively as a rookie class he said they might be the best rookie class we've seen the last 10 years. 

There is absolutely no way that becomes true unless Ferrell turns into a stud, Mullen completes his transition to a dominant corner, Abram becomes an above-average player and less one dimensional, Crosby gets better at setting the edge which he is terrible at doing, and Jacobs becomes more consistent. 

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Always been a Carr fan since his college days. Bucs were going to pair him up with Mike Evans in 2017 but OAK took him right before we did. That said no he is not elite but he is a good QB. Wont carry a team but wont kill them either.

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1 minute ago, BayRaider said:

There is absolutely no way that becomes true unless Ferrell turns into a stud, Mullen completes his transition to a dominant corner, Abram becomes an above-average player and less one dimensional, Crosby gets better at setting the edge which he is terrible at doing, and Jacobs becomes more consistent. 

I'm not talking about long term, I literally just said based on their collective performance as a class they're arguably the best rookie class we've seen in the last 10 years during their first season....

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1 minute ago, NYRaider said:

I'm not talking about long term, I literally just said based on their collective performance as a class they're arguably the best rookie class we've seen in the last 10 years during their first season....

Bad way to measure success. A draft class should not be measured on one year unless they win a title. They should be measures on 4-5 years. 

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10 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

Bad way to measure success. A draft class should not be measured on one year unless they win a title. They should be measures on 4-5 years. 

Obviously. But we can only judge them based on what they've done so far. And someone said Mayock isn't a draft guru but his one rookie class had a great season as a collective in their 1st year. 

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Carr reminds me of Tannehill, you put him in the right system with the right supporting cast he has the ability to excel. He isn't one of those elite QB's who will elevate the play of those around him, Rodgers, Russell Wilson, vintage Brady. etc etc. Mayock and Gruden appear to be putting the pieces and system in place for Carr to be at the helm of a dynamic offense. 

No knock on Tannehill either, I am happy for the guys career revival, he has the tools to be a Superbowl winning QB. 

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