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Is Mike Vrabel part of the Belichick coaching tree?

does Vrabel count as part of the tree?  

83 members have voted

  1. 1. does Vrabel count as part of the tree?

    • Yes. He clearly learned things about coaching from BB
      36
    • Nope. Gotta be a member of his staff to be on the tree.
      47


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No.

But I don't think Belichick has to worry too much longer about having a failed coaching tree, Brian Flores looks really promising in Miami. I know it's still really early and they haven't had playoff appearances or success yet obviously, but I don't think enough credit is being given to the work he's already put in there. In year 2 of what is pretty much a complete rebuild and has already done things like ruin New England's playoff seeding last year, gave Buffalo and Seattle all they wanted and then some this year, etc. Once he gets that team built fully in the image he wants I think they're gonna be good for a long time.

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5 hours ago, ET80 said:

Two years, one championship I think.

So, what's the cutoff then?

Exactly, that’s why as far as official coach tree is concerned, you don’t include players.

 

However, I say practically speaking because I see BB, a defensive minded coach, Vrabel, a linebacker, an 8 year union and then Vrabel learning how to coach under a BB disciple. In Vrabel’s coaching you see remnant of a BB approach to the game. I mean he literally beat BB last year with a loophole, the BB special! That tells me BB is as big an influence on Vrabel as anyone.

 

Kliff spent 1 season as a backup QB in NE and then was brought up in the coaching ranks under air raid guys, as an offensive mind. I can’t imagine that 1 year in NE influenced him much beyond seeing how a “proper” franchise should run.

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You can claim that Vrabel learned some tricks under BB, but hell, any coach in the NFL that watches tape can say that.

Sorry, Mike is not in the Belichick tree. My opinion.

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He was a team captain for the Patriots defense for 4 years, and Belichick gave him tons of praise as an on-field coach. Why would he not be under that tree? He was clearly the second banana leading those defenses from 2005-2008.

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6 hours ago, ET80 said:

Two years, one championship I think.

So, what's the cutoff then?

Somewhere between 4 time captain of the defense, leader of the defense, & on field play caller who BB referred to by saying "there is nobody I enjoyed working with more," and a backup QB who didn't ever take a snap, let alone lead a unit on the field. Probably pretty easy to place a point in-between those two and call it fair.

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Considering it's a coaching TREE, yes.

Bill Parcells is the trunk of the Tree

Bill Belichick is a branch of the tree

Bill O'Brien is an offshoot branch of the larger branch

Mike Vrabel is a stick coming off that offshoot branch of the tree.

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2 hours ago, Tetsujin said:

It was a mixed bag. One winning season, then management brought in the dumpsterfire that was Culpepper instead of Brees.

Yeah it was a super mixed bag.

On one hand, he failed in his first season and his team didn't even make the playoffs.

On the other hand, he super failed his next season and tucked his tail back to the college game where he can stack the deck in his favor as much as he wants and have just about any recruit he wants.

Total mixed bag.

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28 minutes ago, scar988 said:

Considering it's a coaching TREE, yes.

Bill Parcells is the trunk of the Tree

Bill Belichick is a branch of the tree

Bill O'Brien is an offshoot branch of the larger branch

Mike Vrabel is a stick coming off that offshoot branch of the tree.

Matt Patricia is a fat viscous glob of bird crap slowly sliding down the belichick branch

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17 hours ago, ET80 said:

Yeah, if we're playing this game, there are only two "Bill" trees - Parcells and Walsh. Pretty much every single coach that is (or will be) can be traced back to these two men.

These two are the roots of modern day football.

Every single head coach coming into the 2020 season could claim one tree or the other:

Bo18r4b.png

BTW, current interims:

Romeo Crennel - Bill PArcells -> Bill Belichick

Raheem Morris - Bill Walsh -> Mike Holmgren -> Jon Gruden

Edited by scar988

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17 hours ago, ET80 said:

Yeah, if we're playing this game, there are only two "Bill" trees - Parcells and Walsh. Pretty much every single coach that is (or will be) can be traced back to these two men.

These two are the roots of modern day football.

Bill is the greatest coaching name in history 

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1 hour ago, pwny said:

Somewhere between 4 time captain of the defense, leader of the defense, & on field play caller who BB referred to by saying "there is nobody I enjoyed working with more," and a backup QB who didn't ever take a snap, let alone lead a unit on the field. Probably pretty easy to place a point in-between those two and call it fair.

Would you agree that Kingsbury is part of the Belicheck tree then? That's really the crux of my question that has yet to be answered.

I'm OK if that's the direction we're going on this one.

I've said it before, I personally think Vrabel is part of the Urban Meyer tree - taking information as a player and as a coach are two completely different things; One is about execution of your assignment, one is about execution of all 11 players on the field - even if you're calling the play, you're not responsible on whether or not a DE takes inside or outside lanes when rushing the passer, you're not responsible for dictating off man or on man coverage in the secondary. You're relaying information, sure. Maybe you're making slight adjustments and repositioning guys around you, sure. But you're not truly calling and changing assignments like a coach is.

So, while Vrabel has the player level experience with Belly, it's not exactly transferrable in regards to a coaching job. It's a foundation that someone (Meyer) could work off of, sure.

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Cleary replicates Bills style. The technical answer is no, but the argument can be made that he learned a lot of Bill’s style, philosophy, technique, and system and adopted most of it. 

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5 minutes ago, ET80 said:

Would you agree that Kingsbury is part of the Belicheck tree then? That's really the crux of my question that has yet to be answered.

I'm OK if that's the direction we're going on this one.

I've said it before, I personally think Vrabel is part of the Urban Meyer tree, 

If you, or anyone else, can point to bits of evidence that Kingsbury developed his coaching style with influence from what he learned under BB, then sure. But I'm not really seeing that influence, or evidence of him being taken under BB's wing and developed, where there's a clear line of teacher-student knowledge flow in the way Vrabel was as a player under BB.

Simply playing for a coach, at least in my estimation, doesn't make one a member of that coaching tree. But having the type of influence and understanding that Vrabel did, and then clearly taking many of those principles into his own coaching gig lends to the idea that his time under BB; time spent being a captain, being an on-field play caller, and being such a huge influence on the things that happened on those defenses, all of that together lends to the idea that he learned a good part of his coaching style while in that captain role. I don't know if you can say the same for Kingsbury. 

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34 minutes ago, ET80 said:

Would you agree that Kingsbury is part of the Belicheck tree then? That's really the crux of my question that has yet to be answered.

I'm OK if that's the direction we're going on this one.

I've said it before, I personally think Vrabel is part of the Urban Meyer tree - taking information as a player and as a coach are two completely different things; One is about execution of your assignment, one is about execution of all 11 players on the field - even if you're calling the play, you're not responsible on whether or not a DE takes inside or outside lanes when rushing the passer, you're not responsible for dictating off man or on man coverage in the secondary. You're relaying information, sure. Maybe you're making slight adjustments and repositioning guys around you, sure. But you're not truly calling and changing assignments like a coach is.

So, while Vrabel has the player level experience with Belly, it's not exactly transferrable in regards to a coaching job. It's a foundation that someone (Meyer) could work off of, sure.

Kingsbury is a tough bird to figure out what trees he learned from if we're being honest. He has some LEach in his schemes. But he has some Walsh. And he has some McDaniels concepts too.

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Vrabel was taught as a player by Crennel and Belichick, he then was a LB coach for Crennel, finally he took over as DC of Houston while Crennel was still an advisor.

If this is not a direct high level teaching link to Belichick then there are no such things as links.

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