J-ALL-DAY Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 20 minutes ago, NYRaider said: But he was also on Doc's staff and they just collapsed in the playoffs. And the Nurse situation is completely different than Lue taking over for the Clippers because the Raptors made significant changes to their rotation. In the 17-18 playoffs their starters were Lowry - DeRozan - Anunoby - Ibaka - Valanciunas and in the 18-19 playoffs their starters were Lowry - Green - Leonard - Siakam - Gasol. Nurse played a role in their improvement but their overall talent level and personnel was also way better as they had an actual superstar instead of an All-Star as their #1 option, Siakam took an enormous leap, and they had much better spacing with Gasol at the 5. I mean sure, but the talent is not the issue for the Clippers. They may make some tweaks and get a better back up defensive C, but they have more than enough. Raptors upgraded in talent just with Kawhi alone, but we have seen Nurse show just how good of a coach he is without Kawhi. Lue being on the coaching staff means what though? Sure he had a big voice, but end of the day it was going to come down to what Doc wanted. Doc was the one leading the huddles not Lue. And again, Doc had prior history of falling short so that's why he got the axe. Which coach would you have preferred the Clippers going with instead? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 10 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said: I mean sure, but the talent is not the issue for the Clippers. They may make some tweaks and get a better back up defensive C, but they have more than enough. Raptors upgraded in talent just with Kawhi alone, but we have seen Nurse show just how good of a coach he is without Kawhi. Lue being on the coaching staff means what though? Sure he had a big voice, but end of the day it was going to come down to what Doc wanted. Doc was the one leading the huddles not Lue. And again, Doc had prior history of falling short so that's why he got the axe. Which coach would you have preferred the Clippers going with instead? Depending on what the Lakers and Warriors do this offseason they're probably the 3rd best team in the West. And when has Lue ever shown that he's a great coach? Sure he won the title after taking over for Blatt midseason. But in the two years he coached the Cavaliers for the whole year they failed to clinch the #1 seed both years and ranked near the bottom of the league in defensive rating. Not to mention got absolutely destroyed in the finals both years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-ALL-DAY Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 35 minutes ago, NYRaider said: Depending on what the Lakers and Warriors do this offseason they're probably the 3rd best team in the West. And when has Lue ever shown that he's a great coach? Sure he won the title after taking over for Blatt midseason. But in the two years he coached the Cavaliers for the whole year they failed to clinch the #1 seed both years and ranked near the bottom of the league in defensive rating. Not to mention got absolutely destroyed in the finals both years. Okay, they may be the third best team in the West....But who did you prefer them to go with instead of Lue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 Just now, J-ALL-DAY said: Okay, they may be the third best team in the West....But who did you prefer them to go with instead of Lue? If they would've fired Doc sooner I think Billy Donovan would have been a better hire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
champ11 Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 2 hours ago, NYRaider said: Depending on what the Lakers and Warriors do this offseason they're probably the 3rd best team in the West. And when has Lue ever shown that he's a great coach? Sure he won the title after taking over for Blatt midseason. But in the two years he coached the Cavaliers for the whole year they failed to clinch the #1 seed both years and ranked near the bottom of the league in defensive rating. Not to mention got absolutely destroyed in the finals both years. "sure he won a title ..." there u go obviously you evaluate process over results, but Lue is a very good coach. he had a very good coaching run with the Cavs. I simply don't think people understand NBA coaching if you are going to dismiss an NBA title level coach. he's highly respected around the league and by the elite players for a reason. say what you want about Bron and how he handles thing within his organization - but he is one of the most brilliant basketball players of all time and he respects Ty Lue. i'm not gonna act like I'm locked into the ins and outs of Ty Lue's coaching skills etc, but the hate on him is so transparent it's funny to me. if I see some legitimate criticism I would love to be informed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beekay414 Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 5 hours ago, NYRaider said: How much did Billups and Lue help the Clippers this season when they imploded in the postseason against Denver though? Doc shouldn't get all the blame for their collapse when Billups/Lue were also on the staff and considered future head coaching candidates. They're definitely extremely talented but we saw them fall apart in the postseason this year because of Doc's lack of adjustments and poor coaching decisions. This is such an important year for the Clippers future outlook because if they fall short of a title again they could potentially lose Kawhi and PG in free agency. And the West is going to be even tougher next year with the Warriors getting healthy, the Lakers looking to add more pieces this offseason, and teams like the Nuggets/Mavericks looking poised to take the next step. Yeah, will be interesting to see who they hire. I wonder if they wait to hire a GM before they decide on their next coach. Doc's terrible rotations were more of an issue for the Clippers than anything their assistants could've done. That's why I'm not even remotely worried about him as coach of the Sixers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, champ11 said: "sure he won a title ..." there u go obviously you evaluate process over results, but Lue is a very good coach. he had a very good coaching run with the Cavs. I simply don't think people understand NBA coaching if you are going to dismiss an NBA title level coach. he's highly respected around the league and by the elite players for a reason. say what you want about Bron and how he handles thing within his organization - but he is one of the most brilliant basketball players of all time and he respects Ty Lue. i'm not gonna act like I'm locked into the ins and outs of Ty Lue's coaching skills etc, but the hate on him is so transparent it's funny to me. if I see some legitimate criticism I would love to be informed He won a title after taking over for Blatt midseason. During Blatt's first year they were 10th in defensive rating, 1st seed in the East, and made the NBA finals where they took the Warriors to 6 games without Love or Kyrie. In the 41 games that he coached his second year they were 3rd in defensive rating and 1st seed in the East (30-11). In the final 41 games that Lue coached they slipped to 11th in defensive rating and went 27-14. In his second year they fell to 21st in defensive rating and were the 2nd seed in the East while in his third year they fell to 29th in defensive rating and were the 4th seed in the East. Under Blatt the Cavaliers went 83-40 (.675) with a 103.4 defensive rating in the regular season and a 102.2 defensive rating in the playoffs. Under Lue the Cavaliers went 128-77 (.624) with a 110.2 defensive rating in the regular season and a 109.2 defensive rating in the playoffs. Once Lue was able to get his own full coaching staff and implement his philosophies the Cavaliers took a major step back defensively and got blown out back to back years in the NBA finals before they fired him. And realistically they wouldn't have even won the title in 15-16 if it weren't for Draymond's suspension and Andrew Bogut's injury shifting the momentum of the series. Because the Warriors were up 3-1 with a 20 point average margin of victory heading back to Oracle for game 5 but Draymond couldn't play and Bogut got hurt early in that game and missed the rest of the series. Edited October 16, 2020 by NYRaider Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 (edited) Lue was 127-66 (65%) in games with LeBron and 1-17 (5%) in games without him. Lue has also been criticized for his inability to make proper halftime adjustments and the Cavaliers had an average +0.9 point differential in the second half during his tenure there. In 15-16 during the 41 games Blatt coached the Cavs had a +4.1 second half point differential and in the 41 games that Lue coached they had a +0.4 second half point differential. The Cavaliers also had the two worst defensive ratings as a team in NBA Finals history in 2017 and 2018. But hey, at least LeBron respects him. Edited October 16, 2020 by NYRaider Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 1 hour ago, beekay414 said: Doc's terrible rotations were more of an issue for the Clippers than anything their assistants could've done. That's why I'm not even remotely worried about him as coach of the Sixers. Cavaliers fans complained about Lue's rotations and they were one of the worst defensive teams in the league as well as second half teams in the league while he was their coach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beekay414 Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 2 minutes ago, NYRaider said: Cavaliers fans complained about Lue's rotations and they were one of the worst defensive teams in the league as well as second half teams in the league while he was their coach. I'm not advocating for Lue. I'm simply stating the obvious. Doc's rotations were brutal and his loyalty to playing everyone (similar to Budenholzer) has been his downfall. There was no reason for Zubac to be on the bench as much as he was vs the Nuggets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Smithers Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 Don’t understand, if you want to hire an assistant then hire a Pop one or Nurse. Then again it’s the NBA, for most part it’s about the players so who the coach is doesn’t really matter. We just seen that with Vogel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 2 hours ago, Kip Smithers said: Don’t understand, if you want to hire an assistant then hire a Pop one or Nurse. Then again it’s the NBA, for most part it’s about the players so who the coach is doesn’t really matter. We just seen that with Vogel. That's true to an extent, talent wins games but coaching definitely matters a lot. The Clippers were probably the most talented team in the league and lost to the Nuggets because of Doc's poor rotations and lack of adjustments as the series went on. Miami was the 5th seed in the East and dominated in the playoffs, a lot of that was because of Spo's coaching. He used different rotations in all 3 series to exploit mismatches and was masterful with his defensive gameplans. Against the Pacers they were switching everything, against the Bucks they were packing the paint, and against the Celtics they used a ton of zone. Look back at the 2011 NBA Finals when the Heatles played the Mavericks. Miami was light years ahead of Dallas from a talent perspective and they still lost. The Mavericks #2 scorer was Jason Terry, lol. Carlisle just really outcoached Spo in that series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
champ11 Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 9 hours ago, NYRaider said: Lue was 127-66 (65%) in games with LeBron and 1-17 (5%) in games without him. Lue has also been criticized for his inability to make proper halftime adjustments and the Cavaliers had an average +0.9 point differential in the second half during his tenure there. In 15-16 during the 41 games Blatt coached the Cavs had a +4.1 second half point differential and in the 41 games that Lue coached they had a +0.4 second half point differential. The Cavaliers also had the two worst defensive ratings as a team in NBA Finals history in 2017 and 2018. But hey, at least LeBron respects him. Yeah, having the respect of star players is essential. Comparing him to Blatt is a tough look considering Blatt was run out of Cleveland and hasn't sniffed the NBA since since he did not know how to carry himself/be a coach. I don't think Lue is a brilliant coaching mind by any means - but for a vet team with championship aspirations he is a very good coach. Getting to the finals three straight years takes a level of competence that many coaches in the NBA couldn't match - holding it against him that he lost to the greatest team ever assembled in the finals twice is unfair. End of the day, he's a solid coach and I don't see how you can say a guy like Billy Donovan, who has been a midlevel NBA coach his whole career, would definitively be a better option. I respect the deep dive into stats that require context and are often circumstantial. He has a pretty strong reputation from Cavs fans on twitter from what I've seen. But end of the day I don't think most fans have a great ability to evaluate coaches. A lot more goes into it and basketball is just happening at a higher level than we can understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttitansfan4life Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 L-o-L Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbadbuff Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 retread coaches.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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