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33 minutes ago, scottishpatriot said:

Amazing. Every word of what you just said was wrong

In all seriousness I think the officiating comes out in the wash but the Deflategate and Bengals filming incident were absurd. Absolutely held to a higher standard than anyone else and still find a way to win. 

So you and a large majority of Patriots fans DON"T think Goodell was coming after the Patriots?

 

54 minutes ago, drew39k said:

Pro tip, everyone outside of New England sees just how much the NFL and Goodell favors the Pats. 

NE fans just can't accept that their team actually cheated so they see the punishment they received as some kind of vindictive attack by Goodell. 

 

If everything I said is wrong, then you feel that Goodell was in the right to punish the Patriots?

Seems odd that you would then come out and attack the punishments...

Just because I haven't touched on it in detail eslewhere, with regard to the Bengals incident.

Lets rehash for just a minute. 

When the Patriots spygate scandal broke one of the things that came out of the findings where that the Patriots "spies" were instructed that if they were caught filming they were to tell people they were part of Kraft Media Productions and that there were merely filming background stuff for another project.

"The videographers also were provided with excuses for what to tell NFL security if asked what they were doing: Tell them you're filming the quarterbacks. Or the kickers. Or footage for a team show."

Fast forward to the Bengals incident. 

First They claimed that the person filming didn't work for the Patriots and that is was just some joe shmoe. Turned he had been a long-time videographer for the Patriots. Then they claimed that he was working for Kraft Productions and just filming background stuff( amazingly its the exact same excuse that the videographers were instructed to use during spygate). They then reviewed the tapes and found that the video was in fact not just stadium background images. Rather the camera was aimed directly at the Bengals sideline filming the coaches calling signals. There were at least 7 conductive minutes of this recording being done. 

The Patriots were caught red handed filming in a  way that was explicitly against the rules, and at this point they were repeat offenders. Despite this, they were only docked a third round pick. Well less than the initial infraction despite, again, being repeat offenders. They knew better, still did it, and got held to a lesser penalty. That's like someone getting a DUI, losing their license for a year then picking up a second DUI and losing it for 6 months. 

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12 minutes ago, Hunter2_1 said:

Go on then, examples?

You know what's a bad look for you? Almost entirely what you've written. You are sore, and instead of facing facts and allowing yourself to be proven wrong, you double down and try and turn it around to me 'stooping'.

I've given you a link to show how absurd deflategate was and why this is relevant to the conversation (i.e Goodell hamstrung us for it), and there's plenty more that debunk it. Now it's your turn to show how Goodell protects NE. 

The Patriots ball guys talked about and admitted to deflating the balls. They spoke about doing it so Tom would be happy. They damn sure aren't going to make the decision to deflate the balls without input from Tom. You can argue Ideal Gas Law till your blue in the face. It doesn't really change the fact that team employees were documented as screwing with the balls.

Which, by the way, where are McNally and Jastremski now... Oh right, the team fired them... for....? 

https://www.businessinsider.com/jim-breuer-john-jastremski-deflategate-story-2016-6 

 

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1 minute ago, drew39k said:

The Patriots ball guys talked about and admitted to deflating the balls. They spoke about doing it so Tom would be happy. They damn sure aren't going to make the decision to deflate the balls without input from Tom. You can argue Ideal Gas Law till your blue in the face. It doesn't really change the fact that team employees were documented as screwing with the balls.

Which, by the way, where are McNally and Jastremski now... Oh right, the team fired them... for....? 

https://www.businessinsider.com/jim-breuer-john-jastremski-deflategate-story-2016-6 

 

Surprisingly, Roger Goodell, in his rulings, never quantified the percentage of air alleged to have been illicitly removed from the footballs. If given a speeding ticket, a natural question to ask would be, “Officer, how fast was I going?”

 

 

I'll let an MIT prof handle this one, I'd probably take his research over the ramblings of a salty NYJ fan..

 

The league’s (That's Goodell's league, if you're keeping notes) analysis assumed a pregame locker room temperature of 67°F instead of consistently applying the 71ºF temperature that it assumed for its gauge analysis. When the master conversion issue is corrected, and the locker room temperature assumption is applied consistently, the league’s Logo Gauge experiments and simulations fully exonerate the Patriots. There was no tampering, full stop.

in absolute terms, the temperature fell by 4.3% from locker room to field. Therefore, the absolute pressure in the footballs should also fall by 4.3%, from 27.2 psi to about 26.02 psi. Subtract 14.7 psi from this last number and you get 11.32 psig, the predicted on field relative pressure for the Patriots' footballs.

Using the Logo gauge, the values for the Patriots’ footballs were 11.80, 11.20, 11.50, 11.00, 11.45, 11.95, 12.30, 11.55, 11.35, 10.90 and 11.35 psig. The average of these values is 11.49 psig.  Notice that eight of the eleven measured values are greater than the predicted pressure of 11.32 psig

 

"the professors obtained field-temperature data for over 10,000 NFL games dating back to 1960, and found that about 61 percent of all games would've been played with under-inflated footballs. Accounting for the specific air pressure the Patriots' footballs were initially set at, they found that 82 percent of the games would've had footballs considered under-inflated by NFL rules. As it turns out, the thing the NFL wants to suspend Brady over is an act of nature that happens all the time and nobody ever notices. "

 

21 scientists refute 'deflategate'

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/21-scientists-say-tom-brady-is-right-and-the-nfl-is-wrong_n_5745fb9ce4b0dacf7ad3c55d?ri18n=true&guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAADtIJmBpCUSt7qmiz_mnjzTsugb31svZQ8Ow-bBnoY8DoONoQXjuKBiePvOuUf6FveVU6f_770HKXJOZ-3_7vlB11olNglWcEu0nnh3-UxCD8QgDToOILH1MOGNEjEUKpIS-KgmmH1-1qqN1M437k3T9GttU1mNkkqRWAQs3nWbH

"the science says he's not guilty"

https://www.si.com/nfl/2016/10/04/tom-brady-deflategate-ideal-gas-law

"If an M.I.T. undergraduate made the kinds of mistakes that Exponent made, “I would force them to repeat the experiment and correct the analysis.” Based on his study of the data, Leonard now says: “I am convinced that no deflation occurred and that the Patriots are innocent. It never happened.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/23/sports/football/nfl-ignores-ball-deflation-science-at-new-england-patriots-expense.html

 

 

But, you probably won't read that so I'll just give ONE fact that should raise a red flag even for the saltiest of fans..

There were two separate gauges used during that game. One gauge had the Patriots balls above the legal limit. The other didn’t.......and we get draft picks taken away for that. Goodell hasn't protected us.

 

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25 minutes ago, drew39k said:
1 hour ago, scottishpatriot said:

Amazing. Every word of what you just said was wrong

In all seriousness I think the officiating comes out in the wash but the Deflategate and Bengals filming incident were absurd. Absolutely held to a higher standard than anyone else and still find a way to win. 

So you and a large majority of Patriots fans DON"T think Goodell was coming after the Patriots?

Good spot actually. I was trying to shoehorn in a Last Jedi reference but it doesn't really work. Nothing good ever came from that film. 😂

I'll rephrase. I agree with literally every word you said, although some fans outside of NE clearly know the Pats don't cheat as well.

Goodell's decisions are either vindictive attacks or cowardly reactions from a man who doesn't want to stand up to the clamour of others to take down the Patriots. Not a good look either way. 

But we can agree to disagree. I don't think the NFL would be as fun without these narratives. No hard feelings. Enjoy the games tonight. 

 

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8 minutes ago, Hunter2_1 said:

Surprisingly, Roger Goodell, in his rulings, never quantified the percentage of air alleged to have been illicitly removed from the footballs. If given a speeding ticket, a natural question to ask would be, “Officer, how fast was I going?”

 

 

I'll let an MIT prof handle this one, I'd probably take his research over the ramblings of a salty NYJ fan..

 

The league’s (That's Goodell's league, if you're keeping notes) analysis assumed a pregame locker room temperature of 67°F instead of consistently applying the 71ºF temperature that it assumed for its gauge analysis. When the master conversion issue is corrected, and the locker room temperature assumption is applied consistently, the league’s Logo Gauge experiments and simulations fully exonerate the Patriots. There was no tampering, full stop.

in absolute terms, the temperature fell by 4.3% from locker room to field. Therefore, the absolute pressure in the footballs should also fall by 4.3%, from 27.2 psi to about 26.02 psi. Subtract 14.7 psi from this last number and you get 11.32 psig, the predicted on field relative pressure for the Patriots' footballs.

Using the Logo gauge, the values for the Patriots’ footballs were 11.80, 11.20, 11.50, 11.00, 11.45, 11.95, 12.30, 11.55, 11.35, 10.90 and 11.35 psig. The average of these values is 11.49 psig.  Notice that eight of the eleven measured values are greater than the predicted pressure of 11.32 psig

 

"the professors obtained field-temperature data for over 10,000 NFL games dating back to 1960, and found that about 61 percent of all games would've been played with under-inflated footballs. Accounting for the specific air pressure the Patriots' footballs were initially set at, they found that 82 percent of the games would've had footballs considered under-inflated by NFL rules. As it turns out, the thing the NFL wants to suspend Brady over is an act of nature that happens all the time and nobody ever notices. "

 

21 scientists refute 'deflategate'

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/21-scientists-say-tom-brady-is-right-and-the-nfl-is-wrong_n_5745fb9ce4b0dacf7ad3c55d?ri18n=true&guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAADtIJmBpCUSt7qmiz_mnjzTsugb31svZQ8Ow-bBnoY8DoONoQXjuKBiePvOuUf6FveVU6f_770HKXJOZ-3_7vlB11olNglWcEu0nnh3-UxCD8QgDToOILH1MOGNEjEUKpIS-KgmmH1-1qqN1M437k3T9GttU1mNkkqRWAQs3nWbH

"the science says he's not guilty"

https://www.si.com/nfl/2016/10/04/tom-brady-deflategate-ideal-gas-law

"If an M.I.T. undergraduate made the kinds of mistakes that Exponent made, “I would force them to repeat the experiment and correct the analysis.” Based on his study of the data, Leonard now says: “I am convinced that no deflation occurred and that the Patriots are innocent. It never happened.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/23/sports/football/nfl-ignores-ball-deflation-science-at-new-england-patriots-expense.html

 

 

But, you probably won't read that so I'll just give ONE fact that should raise a red flag even for the saltiest of fans..

There were two separate gauges used during that game. One gauge had the Patriots balls above the legal limit. The other didn’t.......and we get draft picks taken away for that. Goodell hasn't protected us.

 

And all of this explains away a member of the Patriots organization ADMITTING to doing it. Cool.

Honestly, your only reinforcing my initial statement. 

Patriots fans believe they did nothing wrong thus feel Goodell has some sort of vendetta against them. 

The vast majority of fans from the rest of the league don't share either sentiment.  Its really that simple. You can be as hurt or sad as you want that your team cheated and was punished. I really don't care. Have fun. Doesn't change the simple fact that this a Patriots fan thing, and you all shouldn't be surprised when the rest of the league doesn't agree with you.

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3 minutes ago, scottishpatriot said:

Good spot actually. I was trying to shoehorn in a Last Jedi reference but it doesn't really work. Nothing good ever came from that film. 😂

I'll rephrase. I agree with literally every word you said, although some fans outside of NE clearly know the Pats don't cheat as well.

Goodell's decisions are either vindictive attacks or cowardly reactions from a man who doesn't want to stand up to the clamour of others to take down the Patriots. Not a good look either way. 

But we can agree to disagree. I don't think the NFL would be as fun without these narratives. No hard feelings. Enjoy the games tonight. 

 

Oh believe me there will be no enjoying the games for me tonight.... I'm a jets fan. Its all misery! If they lose, well they suck... and if they win... they cost themselves a shot at Lawrence or the ability to trade Lawrence...

And there was like maybe 1 cool thing about TLJ... the Holdo suicide mission was cool.(though they should have put Leia in that role once she passed during filming)

Cheers!

 

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3 hours ago, Hunter2_1 said:

Hang on...are you saying Goodell favors US?!

maybe not favours, just some sarcasm . I don't know what goodell is going to do with all this covid.... I mean a few weeks ago games got cancelled and postponed, this week all are played as planned. Thats not really goodell favouring the pats, but him just ignoring everything it seems.  

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On 10/18/2020 at 12:15 PM, Hunter2_1 said:

Go on then, examples?

You know what's a bad look for you? Almost entirely what you've written. You are sore, and instead of facing facts and allowing yourself to be proven wrong, you double down and try and turn it around to me 'stooping'.

I've given you a link to show how absurd deflategate was and why this is relevant to the conversation (i.e Goodell hamstrung us for it), and there's plenty more that debunk it. Now it's your turn to show how Goodell protects NE. @lancerman

The NFL spent millions of dollars to suspend a Patriots player that they themselves in open court said they had no direct evidence against for any equipment violation (that they gave another team a slap on the wrists for and ignored another stat QB outright saying he overinflated balls) that was easily explained by the weather in a game where the opposing team had balls below the legal limit, when the head referee said he used a different gauge and the investigator ignored it because “yolo”. That yielded the largest punishment in NFL history. This is all a matter of public record. 
 

If you honestly think Goodell takes a care of the Patriots you are both objectively wrong and biased. Also probably highly ignorant of the facts at hand. The Patriots have two of the steepest NFL punishments ever. One for something the league conceded it couldn’t directly prove and another for a violation that wasn’t even enforced two years before that basically came down to a location of filming dispute. It’s a preposterous take. 

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On 10/18/2020 at 1:03 PM, drew39k said:

And all of this explains away a member of the Patriots organization ADMITTING to doing it. Cool.

Honestly, your only reinforcing my initial statement. 

Patriots fans believe they did nothing wrong thus feel Goodell has some sort of vendetta against them. 

The vast majority of fans from the rest of the league don't share either sentiment.  Its really that simple. You can be as hurt or sad as you want that your team cheated and was punished. I really don't care. Have fun. Doesn't change the simple fact that this a Patriots fan thing, and you all shouldn't be surprised when the rest of the league doesn't agree with you.

Nobody admitted to doing anything. Again all the transcripts are public record. This is a lie. To this day there is not a single person in the organization that is on record saying they deflated balls for Tom Brady. 
 

When you have to flagrantly lie about things where the subjects in question were all directly asked by investigators and deny it..... you don’t have a good take. 

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2 hours ago, lancerman said:

Nobody admitted to doing anything. Again all the transcripts are public record. This is a lie. To this day there is not a single person in the organization that is on record saying they deflated balls for Tom Brady. 
 

When you have to flagrantly lie about things where the subjects in question were all directly asked by investigators and deny it..... you don’t have a good take. 

Ah. So referencing the text messages between McNally and Jastremski where they openly talking about deflating the footballs is considered flagrantly lying. 

Look, your going to believe whatever you want to believe. I get it, you need to defend the wall. Whatever. I really dont care. If you think they did nothing wrong that's all you bud.

The entire point of my whole initial post was simply that Pats fans view the collective of the events that have transpired in a completely different light than the vast majority of NFL fans. Be as offended as you want at your view of Goodell, just dont be shocked when most other people dont agree with you.

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