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Week 6 GDT: WTF Team at NYG. Ugh, why?


turtle28

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1 minute ago, Thaiphoon said:

We're talking about the QB play. Chase doesn't play QB. Did the defense not play well? Sure. The loss was a team effort. However, individual efforts (or lack thereof) can contribute more to the loss than others.

Of the sack? No. 

The fumble? Yes.

I think Thai is correct here. Kyle had plenty of time to secure that ball before going down. This was not the blindside strip sack variety....

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3 minutes ago, RSkinGM said:

Disagree-of course. He did throw TWO TD passes and converted 53% on 3rd downs vs Haskins 33% on the season . His mobility is a plus too. I'm hoping Haskins  maybe can return later this year or be in the mix next year. 

You can’t compare playing the Ravens D vs playing the Giants D but I’ll try to explain to you the difference between the two of you don’t know. The Ravens D is a top 5 D and the best we’ve faced all year and the Browns D is about avg, the Giants are the worst defense we’ll probably face all year, even worse than the Eagles.

And, Haskins did sneak for a TD vs the Ravens and so Gibson ran for a TD from inside the 5. Also, if Rivera had kicked a FG instead of going for it on 4th down with Haskins, that’s a made FG and the score is the same. Not to mention Hopkins hitting the post on his 54-yard FG so, essentially missing that kick by just a few inches to the right.

So, if those two things happen that 23 points against the Ravens top 5 D and zero Ints by Haskins.

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5 minutes ago, Thaiphoon said:

We're talking about the QB play. Chase doesn't play QB. Did the defense not play well? Sure. The loss was a team effort. However, individual efforts (or lack thereof) can contribute more to the loss than others.

Of the sack? No. 

The fumble? Yes.

Yes. But the loss itself was team effort. Staff effort too because some of the calls were awful.

Outside ball security. Kyle was improving and moving the ball downfield as the game went. Didnt stretch the field much, but he was hitting everything forward that was given.

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Kyle Allen’s fumble was a huge turning point in the game - ball security means so much in wins and losses - Haskins not turning the ball over gives us a chance to stay in games. If our D had played as well vs the Ravens as they had vs the Giants and Rivera kicks a FG instead of going for it on 4th down, we may have won that game or been within 4 pts. Now, unlike some of fumbles Haskins had that Kyle Allen fumble was on Kyle and not the OL. When getting sacked you have to secure the ball. 
 

If it’s a strip sack when the QB is starting his throwing motion, that’s more on the OL or really just a great DL play because as the QB is throwing the DL strips the ball out while the QB is in his throwing motion, that’s not on the QB.

I was pleased with how the offense ran smoother, that being said, Kyle Allen made a lot of the same mistakes he did last year as a starter for Carolina. I hope he improves on those mistakes, he has just played 6 quarters of football this year with this set of offensive players and outside of our guards and RT, our offense is young and/or inexperienced. So some of the issues are the same issues we had with Haskins starting.

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So, our offense moved the ball better vs the Giants but did it? Are we not counting yards as progress? Are we not factoring in the Ravens D being the best in the NFL vs the Giants D being in the lower 1/3 of the league?

Rex Grossman moved the ball up and down the field and then he’d commit a turnover, I think that’s what Kyle Allen is and until he can stop turning the ball over he’s not going to be an NFL starter on a good team bc he isn’t good enough. 
 

I’d still rather see Haskins out there throwing the ball around and maybe missing some things but hopefully growing through each quarter of the season. Kyle Allen started all last year, we know he’s a back up and seems like a poor man’s Rex Grossman, on the flip side, we don’t fully know what we have in Haskins yet bc he isn’t playing and that’s doing this team and it’s fanbase a disservice.

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28 minutes ago, PARROTHEAD said:

Yes. But the loss itself was team effort. Staff effort too because some of the calls were awful.

Outside ball security. Kyle was improving and moving the ball downfield as the game went. Didnt stretch the field much, but he was hitting everything forward that was given.

Which is fine and encouraging. But he was also going up against the Jints. So I'm going to hold off on proclaiming the switch was the right move.

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2 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

So, our offense moved the ball better vs the Giants but did it? Are we not counting yards as progress? Are we not factoring in the Ravens D being the best in the NFL vs the Giants D being in the lower 1/3 of the league?

Rex Grossman moved the ball up and down the field and then he’d commit a turnover, I think that’s what Kyle Allen is and until he can stop turning the ball over he’s not going to be an NFL starter on a good team bc he isn’t good enough. 
 

I’d still rather see Haskins out there throwing the ball around and maybe missing some things but hopefully growing through each quarter of the season. Kyle Allen started all last year, we know he’s a back up and seems like a poor man’s Rex Grossman, on the flip side, we don’t fully know what we have in Haskins yet bc he isn’t playing and that’s doing this team and it’s fanbase a disservice.

To me reason I'd go Haskins over Allen

Allen got worse the longer he played for Panthers,and while at moment he gives us a better chance to win think it less to do with being a better QB and more with he's athletic behind our bad Oline.

Haskins makes a mistake he norm looks better at it next game.

Honestly I don't think any QB going to set the world on fire in this offense,just so many bad design lack of taking advantage of things.Like yesterday we motioned JD out wide and a MLB followed him and he burnt him deep but Allen went elsewhere with ball for a completion which is fine,but we never went back and took a shot to JD with same motion that prob a big play TD.

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2 minutes ago, Slappy Mc said:

He wont be on the team by that point. 

I'd be willing to bet he is,no one giving us anything of Value for him mid season to be there backup unless it has plans for him to be long term starter and don't see any team doing that.

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You really can’t just say “outside of ball security, Allen looked good.” 

This is what he does. It’s not a one-time thing, a shaky game where he turned the ball over a bit. He threw 16 picks last season and he fumbled the ball 13 times. He also led the league in yards lost due to sacks, so it’s not a real shock that he took some crushing sacks either. He managed to accomplish all that in 12 starts. 

He’s been a sack-taking turnover machine who kills his team by being loose with the ball, and lo and behold, what do we have in his first full game? Taking big sacks, turning the ball over, killing his team by being loose with the ball. Go figure. He’s a different kind of bad than Haskins is currently, but he’s still bad. He put half their points on the board for them yesterday. You can’t beat anyone like that, apparently not even winless sad sacks like NYG.

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10 minutes ago, e16bball said:

You really can’t just say “outside of ball security, Allen looked good.” 

This is what he does. It’s not a one-time thing, a shaky game where he turned the ball over a bit. He threw 16 picks last season and he fumbled the ball 13 times. He also led the league in yards lost due to sacks, so it’s not a real shock that he took some crushing sacks either. He managed to accomplish all that in 12 starts. 

He’s been a sack-taking turnover machine who kills his team by being loose with the ball, and lo and behold, what do we have in his first full game? Taking big sacks, turning the ball over, killing his team by being loose with the ball. Go figure. He’s a different kind of bad than Haskins is currently, but he’s still bad. He put half their points on the board for them yesterday. You can’t beat anyone like that, apparently not even winless sad sacks like NYG.

Don’t tell Grant Paulsen that. He’s busy twisting himself into knots making excuses for Allen. It’s quite weird honestly. 

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11 minutes ago, e16bball said:

You really can’t just say “outside of ball security, Allen looked good.” 

This is what he does. It’s not a one-time thing, a shaky game where he turned the ball over a bit. He threw 16 picks last season and he fumbled the ball 13 times. He also led the league in yards lost due to sacks, so it’s not a real shock that he took some crushing sacks either. He managed to accomplish all that in 12 starts. 

He’s been a sack-taking turnover machine who kills his team by being loose with the ball, and lo and behold, what do we have in his first full game? Taking big sacks, turning the ball over, killing his team by being loose with the ball. Go figure. He’s a different kind of bad than Haskins is currently, but he’s still bad. He put half their points on the board for them yesterday. You can’t beat anyone like that, apparently not even winless sad sacks like NYG.

I didnt say he looked good. I said he was improving as the game went and was moving the ball down the field.

It might have been against the Giants. But it was a competitive game. Against the Ravens, Jamarcus got his yards when the Ravens had the game put away and stuck practice squad callups on the field. There is a difference there. Kyles not our future or anything. But he did help give the team a chance to win.

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34 minutes ago, ovfd55 said:

I'd be willing to bet he is,no one giving us anything of Value for him mid season to be there backup unless it has plans for him to be long term starter and don't see any team doing that.

You severely underestimate this teams ability to tank someone's value and trade him for scraps. Most recent example is Trent Williams. (Not pointing fingers at RR for T-Will, but this team is famous for this)

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44 minutes ago, Slappy Mc said:

He wont be on the team by that point. 

Haskins may not be on the team by the time we face the Giants again in 3 weeks but that would only be because Rivera is willing to just dump Haskins for anything like he did with Dunbar instead of playing them, having them hopefully drive up their value and then trading them at a higher value then they currently are. I think that makes sense - makes sense to me.

Ron traded Dunbar when his value was low, Ron traded Twill when his value was low, but that was more on Brice Allen, not on Ron. Brice ruined TWill’s value, not Ron. Still, what’s he’s doing with Haskins is similar. I think Haskins would’ve at least played equal to Kyle Allen yesterday if not better but because we’re not playing Haskins we have no clue how he’d perform against a blow average defense in the Giants. 
 

I mean the Giants are still starting Daniel Jones who’s not looking good, but we aren’t starting Haskins? It makes no sense other than Ron just wants his own guy in their and to draft his own guy next year which is probably the real truth.

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