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JAF-N72EX

Nagy needs to hand over play-calling duties.

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Just now, WindyCity said:

I was giving the OP a hard time because that is always what he says about firing Pace.

I would be fine if Nagy gave up the play sheet, but the line is going to after whoever takes over.

Ah well. I'll eat my words and sit in the corner where I belong then. 

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On 10/19/2020 at 9:34 PM, WindyCity said:

I was giving the OP a hard time because that is always what he says about firing Pace.

I would be fine if Nagy gave up the play sheet, but the line is going to after whoever takes over.

Not even close to being the same thing.

Pace's job is make this TEAM competitive and he's done that--- (we're 5-1 and well on our way to making the playoffs 2 out of the last 3 years). 

Nagy, on the other hand, as a play-caller, is still making the same mistake that he made in year 1 and the arrow still isn't pointing up. 

And I know, you wanna derail this thread too (just like you do with every other thread) but Pace also hired Nagy who is a good HC and one we should stick with. As I keep saying, he's a good head coach but poor OC/play caller. 

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Nagy should get till the bye week to call plays before a switch is made. If the Offense still sucks he should be forced to hand it over.

90% of us agree that he is working with substandard offensive talent, but this is the last change we can make in season.

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On 10/21/2020 at 12:01 AM, JAF-N72EX said:

Not even close to being the same thing.

Pace's job is make this TEAM competitive and he's done that--- (we're 5-1 and well on our way to making the playoffs 2 out of the last 3 years). 

Nagy, on the other hand, as a play-caller, is still making the same mistake that he made in year 1 and the arrow still isn't pointing up. 

And I know, you wanna derail this thread too (just like you do with every other thread) but Pace also hired Nagy who is a good HC and one we should stick with. As I keep saying, he's a good head coach but poor OC/play caller. 

A major issues on offense is bad personnel.

You have to take that into account when discussing Nagy. Not that he is blameless in okaying this hot trash OL, but he is not working with even average NFL talent.

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11 hours ago, WindyCity said:

A major issues on offense is bad personnel.

You have to take that into account when discussing Nagy. 

I get that and you're not wrong. I was just worried you would start using this as an opportunity to start raging about Pace again instead of focusing on Nagy's poor play calling. 

11 hours ago, WindyCity said:

Not that he is blameless in okaying this hot trash OL, but he is not working with even average NFL talent.

This checks out.

QB: Bad

RB: Average (below average now that Cohen is out---Kareem Hunt would be nice to have right now *Hint Pace*. Hopefully, Lamar is healthy and is working himself into the playbook.)

OL: Overall below average in the run game but not too bad in pass pro. Save for Leno. No excuse for his poor play on both sides of the ball. 

WR: Average w/ above average potential (Poor QB play is causing them to miss out on opportunities)

TE: Average w/ above average potential (Outside of week 1, Kmet has been a good blocker and hopefully we'll see more in the pass game after last week.)


Some of his play calls have led to open routes and running lanes but the QB's and RB's are not seeing them. So yes, you're right, it's not ALL on Nagy.  But, like you also said in a way, this still does not excuse Nagy. Passing the ball on a 3rd and 2 with the lead,  not taking advantage of mediocre defensive players and targeting them more and coddling players  has nothing to do with talent. That's just a coach over-thinking things and going into games with a plan and not willing to adjust when it doesn't work.

12 hours ago, WindyCity said:

Nagy should get till the bye week to call plays before a switch is made. If the Offense still sucks he should be forced to hand it over.

90% of us agree that he is working with substandard offensive talent, but this is the last change we can make in season.

I agree. I guess I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt that maybe Foles just isn't up to speed yet after having a limited offseason and no preseason.  But at the same time I also can't help but to think that I'm being naive to even think anything will change either, so why not make the change now.

 

 

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12 hours ago, WindyCity said:

Nagy should get till the bye week to call plays before a switch is made. If the Offense still sucks he should be forced to hand it over.

90% of us agree that he is working with substandard offensive talent, but this is the last change we can make in season.

He still has enough that what is on the field should be better. I'm convinced it will improve...but still, it's on Nagy to ADJUST. 

It seems like his overall mentality is, "WE'RE THE CHICAGO BEARS AND ALL OPPONENTS WILL BOW TO OUR OFFENSIVE GENIUS!"

He has to do more with what he actually has, and not continue to live in some sort of delusional dream world. 

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1 hour ago, JAF-N72EX said:

I get that and you're not wrong. I was just worried you would start using this as an opportunity to start raging about Pace again instead of focusing on Nagy's poor play calling. 

This checks out.

QB: Bad

RB: Average (below average now that Cohen is out---Kareem Hunt would be nice to have right now *Hint Pace*. Hopefully, Lamar is healthy and is working himself into the playbook.)

OL: Overall below average in the run game but not too bad in pass pro. Save for Leno. No excuse for his poor play on both sides of the ball. 

WR: Average w/ above average potential (Poor QB play is causing them to miss out on opportunities)

TE: Average w/ above average potential (Outside of week 1, Kmet has been a good blocker and hopefully we'll see more in the pass game after last week.)


Some of his play calls have led to open routes and running lanes but the QB's and RB's are not seeing them. So yes, you're right, it's not ALL on Nagy.  But, like you also said in a way, this still does not excuse Nagy. Passing the ball on a 3rd and 2 with the lead,  not taking advantage of mediocre defensive players and targeting them more and coddling players  has nothing to do with talent. That's just a coach over-thinking things and going into games with a plan and not willing to adjust when it doesn't work.

I agree. I guess I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt that maybe Foles just isn't up to speed yet after having a limited offseason and no preseason.  But at the same time I also can't help but to think that I'm being naive to even think anything will change either, so why not make the change now.

 

 

My issue with the Foles thing is the entire reason he was brought in was that he new the system and didn’t need the same time as another QB.

Starting Mitch was a huge mistake if that is the case. Nagy clearly wanted nothing to do with Mitch, he benched him as soon as he could, and those were valuable warm up games for Foles.

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2 hours ago, WindyCity said:

My issue with the Foles thing is the entire reason he was brought in was that he new the system and didn’t need the same time as another QB.

Starting Mitch was a huge mistake if that is the case. Nagy clearly wanted nothing to do with Mitch, he benched him as soon as he could, and those were valuable warm up games for Foles.

Here's the thing though. Which "system" are we talking about?  Because Nagy has changed it so many times over the course of 3 short years that it's hard to keep track of which "system" he really wants to run with?  He's changed it so much ,in order to try to make it easier for Mitch, so how do we truly know what his "system" is at this point? 

Let's back track a bit here.

When Nagy first got here in 2018, he already had an idea on how he wanted this offense to run and he expected Mitch to be able to handle it and so he stuck with his initial approach for the first half of the season, despite him seeing the same mistakes that Mitch was making later on in the year as he did earlier (knowing that Mitch was raw product coming out of college and it was going to take more than a 1 year for him to get the most of him). But later on in the season he started to test Mitch by letting him off the leash, per-say, and he saw very little to no improvement---outside of the playoff game and 1 or two others against banged up defenses.  Nagy gave him the benefit of the doubt and even admitted later this last offseason that not playing the offense enough in the preseason was a mistake that he made and that he was planning on doing it THIS year had it not been for the pandemic.

Year two,  Nagy starts the season with the same idea in mind that to start to him off slow and work him into slowly, (again, giving Mitch the BOTD). But Mitch is still making the same mistakes 4-6 games into the season (AKA ill-advised throws downfield), and so Nagy changes his play calling AGAIN by calling less deep route concepts in order to try to make it easier for Mitch and Mitch still isn't getting it. Over the course of last few games, Nagy decides to try to re-implement his plan and use these last few games to determine, once and for all, whether or not Mitch is fit for the job by completely taking the leash off and giving Mitch a chance to run his offense in it's entirety without any cuffs and Mitch gets a little bit better on the deep ball but is still making the same mistakes in other areas. 

Year three, 2020. Nagy has Pace in his ear begging him to make something out of Mitch so that he doesn't look like a complete fool.

It's go time for Mitch and Nagy's offense. Nagy is still in his late-season (frustrated) mode with Mitch as he give him full disclosure of the playbook and asks him to run it better than what he showed at the end of year 2 and he fails and gets benched.

You see? Nagy has changed his "system" so many times in such a short period that it's hard to really determine what his system really is.

So now he's stuck with Foles. But Foles ALSO struggles with deep throws but is also consistent on short throws. So if Foles doesn't shows improvement then is Nagy going to back to his coddling ways with Foles like he did with Mitch and essentially repeat what didn't work before?  

Edited by JAF-N72EX
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I even left out how Nagy's offense was supposed to be similar to the Pederson's and Reids and we haven't seen that at all in 3 years. 

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1 hour ago, beardown3231 said:

Interesting article here from Biggs

 

There numbers are skewed by the first 3 games.

They have been absolute dog **** the last 3 weeks.

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6 hours ago, beardown3231 said:

Interesting article here from Biggs

 

I'm a bit surprised it ranks near the middle of the pack but can see where we have issues elsewhere. Having two poor QBs, have Miller sucking *** and Mooney taking on a big role as a late round pick up there are issues. Plus we have a RBC that is now Montgomery and Patterson, which we've had worse but neither keeps DCs up at night. We have issues through the entire offense, but with Daniels going down I expect the late trend of OL play to continue sinking the above rankings.

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2 minutes ago, Sugashane said:

I'm a bit surprised it ranks near the middle of the pack but can see where we have issues elsewhere. Having two poor QBs, have Miller sucking *** and Mooney taking on a big role as a late round pick up there are issues. Plus we have a RBC that is now Montgomery and Patterson, which we've had worse but neither keeps DCs up at night. We have issues through the entire offense, but with Daniels going down I expect the late trend of OL play to continue sinking the above rankings.

Windy is right that those numbers are skewed by the first couple games, and they're not even that great at high teens in every category. They were trending down before Daniels got hurt, and man do they look like **** on tape.

If you want to groan, watch Foles' interception below five times. Ho-lee cow.  I think Leno actually gives his guy a push TOWARDS Foles. That is for sure a blue-ribbon ****up highlight across all five OL spots, but at least one of these guys is doing that on every play.

These guys ******* suck. 

 

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1 minute ago, RunningVaccs said:

Windy is right that those numbers are skewed by the first couple games, and they're not even that great at high teens in every category. They were trending down before Daniels got hurt, and man do they look like **** on tape.

If you want to groan, watch Foles' interception below five times. Ho-lee cow.  I think Leno actually gives his guy a push TOWARDS Foles. That is for sure a blue-ribbon ****up highlight across all five OL spots, but at least one of these guys is doing that on every play.

These guys ******* suck. 

 

PFF can't screw up the grading on that one can they?

 

Every. Damn. Lineman. Failed.

 

RIP Nick Foles. Maybe you'll get lucky and get COVID before Donald gets to you.

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