Official 2021 QB Thread

[Forge]

5 hours ago, KingOfNewYork said:

I think the issue a lot of teams run into, and fans as well, when it comes to Quarterbacks is projecting upside. And I say that because they always use that in a physical sense. 

But the QB position is so much more mental than any other position in the league and projected that mental upside is where teams should be looking. 

I remember reading why McVay and Shanahan wanted to move on from Goff and Jimmy G and it’s because mentally they can’t do the things needed to elevate the team. Both coaches can pretty much walk any QB they have to a certain level of success but it will never push the team over the top until the QB can provide things to the team that Shanahan and McVay cannot.  See Rodgers for example in the same scheme elevating the Packers and taking it to new heights. 

So for me when I’m looking at upside I want to see how close can a kid get to where Brady and Peyton and Brees were mentally because that’s going to matter more than their 40 time or winding up 50 yard throws to uncovered targets. 

The problem is...how do you judge that? Where's the quantification? Because it doesn't translate at a consistent level across players / league.  I think that is the biggest question with regards to that. Justin Fields is a very smart individual. Lance is already running an NFL offense, and Mac jones got his Master's degree in like 3 years or whatever. Very smart kids...but that also doesn't mean it's going to translate or manifest the same way across all three at the next level, and we also know that intelligence in a vacuum isn't the same as football IQ / awareness and knowing what's going on at a football field level. Then you add that things like that may not develop until their late 20's and it's getting even murkier. Mental development....i just don't know how you prognosticate that to be honest. People can be awesome on the white board and then you put it into practical application and they are lost (Daniel Jones, for example). Also, how do you interpret different factors? You can ding Fields for staying on his first read to long or refusing to move off...but what does that mean, in comparison to Mac Jones struggling going past his first read? 

In theory, I'm with you. I just don't know how you make it happen and having the physical attributes gives you more leeway and wiggle room if you don't max out upstairs (which most don't, lets be honest) 

[KingOfNewYork]

5 hours ago, Forge said:

The problem is...how do you judge that? Where's the quantification? Because it doesn't translate at a consistent level across players / league.  I think that is the biggest question with regards to that. Justin Fields is a very smart individual. Lance is already running an NFL offense, and Mac jones got his Master's degree in like 3 years or whatever. Very smart kids...but that also doesn't mean it's going to translate or manifest the same way across all three at the next level, and we also know that intelligence in a vacuum isn't the same as football IQ / awareness and knowing what's going on at a football field level. Then you add that things like that may not develop until their late 20's and it's getting even murkier. Mental development....i just don't know how you prognosticate that to be honest. People can be awesome on the white board and then you put it into practical application and they are lost (Daniel Jones, for example). Also, how do you interpret different factors? You can ding Fields for staying on his first read to long or refusing to move off...but what does that mean, in comparison to Mac Jones struggling going past his first read? 

In theory, I'm with you. I just don't know how you make it happen and having the physical attributes gives you more leeway and wiggle room if you don't max out upstairs (which most don't, lets be honest) 

Trust me it's my biggest issue when evaluating QBs but I know for sure that the mental aspect is what separates the good from great and great from Elite but it's impossible to quantify. The only way I think we'll ever see something close to it is the NFL creating their own pathway where high schoolers go right into pro coaching and develop under that tutelage and we see just how much they can grasp mentally outside of more simplified college schemes on both sides of the ball. 

Edited April 17, 2021 by KingOfNewYork

[Teen Girl Squad]

18 hours ago, Forge said:

The problem is...how do you judge that? Where's the quantification? Because it doesn't translate at a consistent level across players / league.  I think that is the biggest question with regards to that. Justin Fields is a very smart individual. Lance is already running an NFL offense, and Mac jones got his Master's degree in like 3 years or whatever. Very smart kids...but that also doesn't mean it's going to translate or manifest the same way across all three at the next level, and we also know that intelligence in a vacuum isn't the same as football IQ / awareness and knowing what's going on at a football field level. Then you add that things like that may not develop until their late 20's and it's getting even murkier. Mental development....i just don't know how you prognosticate that to be honest. People can be awesome on the white board and then you put it into practical application and they are lost (Daniel Jones, for example). Also, how do you interpret different factors? You can ding Fields for staying on his first read to long or refusing to move off...but what does that mean, in comparison to Mac Jones struggling going past his first read? 

In theory, I'm with you. I just don't know how you make it happen and having the physical attributes gives you more leeway and wiggle room if you don't max out upstairs (which most don't, lets be honest) 

Agreed. Its why I'm pretty high on this whole top 5 and have Jones as the 5th. Unless its absurd at the college level (aka Kizer, who would routinely have 6+ seconds of clean pocket time and still throw it away because he couldn't see anything) its just too hard to project. I thought it was a strength of Goff's coming out of college, as an example, and it turned out to be his limiting factor. Nothing about Daks tape screamed it but it was evident from his first snaps in preseason that he had it/game speed from the jump.

[AkronsWitness]

Not sure if it was mentioned but is anybody going to talk about Zach Wilson's height?

He's listed at 6'3" but watching hos highlights, that dude is no bigger than 6'0"-6'1".

Edited April 17, 2021 by AkronsWitness

[Forge]

2 minutes ago, AkronsWitness said:

Not sure if it was mentioned but is anybody going to talk about Zach Wilson's height?

He's listed at 6'3" but watching hos highlights, that dude is no bigger than 6'1".

He measured 6'2+ this off season. It's fine.  I'd be more concerned about the weight than the height

[.Buzz]

Good thread on TLaw breaking it down with Herbstreit.

[Forge]

41 minutes ago, .Buzz said:

Good thread on TLaw breaking it down with Herbstreit.

Didn't average 11 yards per attempt, set completion percentage or passer rating records. Maybe Mac Jones would be a better use of the #1 overall pick? 

[BayRaider]

People are sleeping on Davis Mills. I think he'll be a better pro than Mac Jones. 

Here are my current QB Rankings, will post a finalized version before the draft:

1. Trevor Lawrence - #1 player in draft

2. Zach Wilson - #3 player in draft

3. Trey Lance - #7 player in draft

4. Justin Fields - #8 player in draft

5. Davis Mills - Mid 2nd Round Grade

6. Kyle Trask - Late 2nd Round Grade

7. Mac Jones - Early 3rd Round Grade

8. Felipe Franks - Early 4th Round Grade

9. Kellan Mond - Mid 4th Round Grade

10. Sam Ehlinger - Mid 6th Round Grade (gadget guy)

11. K.J. Costello - Early 7th Round Grade

12. Jamie Newman - Mid 7th Round Grade

No one else is draftable. 

Personally, still don't get the Mac Jones hype, nor the Mond hype. It's like Mac Jones has the best marketing team of all time or something. I do think Mac Jones can be a starter but a Low-Level Starter/Gatekeeper. And eventually, just a super-quality backup. Mond is definitely a backup in this league. 

Davis Mills is someone people have sleeping on all draft process, kid is smart with all the tools you want to succeed. 

Edited April 19, 2021 by BayRaider

[BayRaider]

On 4/16/2021 at 10:59 AM, NYRaider said:

How did Mac Jones rise so highly during the pre draft process? During the season wasn't he viewed by most as a 2nd/3rd round pick?

Most likely his camp constantly putting stuff out and media connections. Have to give him props.... I’ve never seen such a crazy marketing team. Guy is a 2nd Round talent at absolute best (3rd imo), and he has convinced manyyyy people he’s going in the Top 15 picks. And who knows... maybe he pulled it off. 

[BrownLeader]

4 hours ago, BayRaider said:

People are sleeping on Davis Mills. I think he'll be a better pro than Mac Jones. 

Here are my current QB Rankings, will post a finalized version before the draft:

1. Trevor Lawrence - #1 player in draft

2. Zach Wilson - #3 player in draft

3. Trey Lance - #7 player in draft

4. Justin Fields - #8 player in draft

5. Davis Mills - Mid 2nd Round Grade

6. Kyle Trask - Late 2nd Round Grade

7. Mac Jones - Early 3rd Round Grade

8. Felipe Franks - Early 4th Round Grade

9. Kellan Mond - Mid 4th Round Grade

10. Sam Ehlinger - Mid 6th Round Grade (gadget guy)

11. K.J. Costello - Early 7th Round Grade

12. Jamie Newman - Mid 7th Round Grade

No one else is draftable. 

Personally, still don't get the Mac Jones hype, nor the Mond hype. It's like Mac Jones has the best marketing team of all time or something. I do think Mac Jones can be a starter but a Low-Level Starter/Gatekeeper. And eventually, just a super-quality backup. Mond is definitely a backup in this league. 

Davis Mills is someone people have sleeping on all draft process, kid is smart with all the tools you want to succeed. 

How is Trask also better than Mac Jones?

[49ersfan]

WFT, Bears, Panthers not attending Lance's 2nd pro day 

Falcons, Pats, Broncos are only sending assistant coaches or executives

I believe the only team sending their GM & HC to the pro day (aka the decision makers) are the Niners...

[BroncoSojia]

42 minutes ago, 49ersfan said:

WFT, Bears, Panthers not attending Lance's 2nd pro day 

Falcons, Pats, Broncos are only sending assistant coaches or executives

I believe the only team sending their GM & HC to the pro day (aka the decision makers) are the Niners...

Our GM attended the first pro day. The OC is there today.

[BayRaider]

6 hours ago, BrownLeader said:

How is Trask also better than Mac Jones?

They are almost interchangeable but Trask has all the same tools Mac has, and both have meh arms, is a tough gritty big bodied Ben-Esque QB that is actually extremely accurate and very smart. 
 

Mac Jones doesn’t do anything better really, unless you’re counting mobility, which he’s not great at anyways. 
 

Seriously, Mac Jones is the most overrated QB prospect since Daniel Jones. He belongs at the back end of the 2nd Round, not the Top 15 picks. I had Daniel Jones as a 4th Round Grade and was pretty shocked he was being talked about as a 1st Rounder. And I’d bet this is Daniel Jones last year starting on the Giants. 
 

I think Trask and Mac will both be low-level starters in the 20-32 range. Although I could see Trask thriving in New Orleans if they pick him. 

Edited April 19, 2021 by BayRaider

[GW21]

57 minutes ago, 49ersfan said:

WFT, Bears, Panthers not attending Lance's 2nd pro day 

Falcons, Pats, Broncos are only sending assistant coaches or executives

I believe the only team sending their GM & HC to the pro day (aka the decision makers) are the Niners...

I read that wrong 99% of the time. They need to pick a new team name. 

[WindyCity]

The Bears top guys were at Lance's first Pro Day.