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Official 2021 QB Thread


NYRaider

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51 minutes ago, .Buzz said:

Burrow had CEH, Chase, Justin Jefferson, Terrace Marshall Jr. and several OL who got drafted last year. That unit was loaded.

They definitely had a ton of talent but they weren't really an offensive powerhouse until Joe Brady showed up. 

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Just now, NYRaider said:

They definitely had a ton of talent but they weren't really an offensive powerhouse until Joe Brady showed up. 

I mean the whole point is talking about talent around the QB. LSU was right up there with Bama if not better. 

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37 minutes ago, Trojan said:

Watching Shannon Sharpe's interview in a gym with Devonta Smith (I think it came out on Youtube yesterday, it's about an hour and a half long in a gym I think it was titled Club Sha Sha) Mac Jones texting Devonta Smith at 3am about things he saw on film is the type of thing that gives Jones a plus on things like processing to me. I don't think it's just some alien superpower that Mac Jones is just seeing defenses better than normal and making reads to super star WRs, what is happening is the guy has matured in a very structured environment. He went from kid dressing up as Obama with dreads, to freshman DUI, to capabale back up to starter that takes it very seriously and will put in the work needed to fight for a championship. Watching film to understand an opponent at 3am is a work ethic and understanding that will naturally lead to better processing that many NFL draft busts lack. The famous Jamarcus and a blank DVD story obviously doesn't apply here. It's not some kid skating through college on talent. There is a want that has lead to better decisions and maximizing his talent. He likely doesn't land where he was a Smith and Waddle and plus OL, but he has a drive to succeed that if he landed in a place with Trent Williams, Brandon Aiyuk, George Kittle and Deebo Samuel with another structured coach in Kyle... yeah I could see it working. It wouldn't be my choice, but I wouldn't knock the 49ers at all and some loaded word like processing is along the lines of the justification.

I think that there is a conflation or imprecise definition of processing which is part of the problem. To me, processing is only what you do on the field and in the heat of the moment, and I don't see what makes him special in that specific regard. He does seem to have a good presnap understanding of what is going on, which is very important, so if you want to consider that part of the processing (pre / post) then I'd say he's good in that regard (presnap) but that gets harder to evaluate based on scheme. Is he making the right judgments, or is the scheme telling him where to throw the ball and he's pointing and clicking? very, very difficult to judge and it's going to take someone better than me to really provide a good explanation on why it is whichever it is. 

The work ethic and studying film thing? That's great but not processing for me and that's largely no different than stories we are hearing every year about QB prospects. You hear those stories already about Lance, for example. That on his down time he's watching NFL games and studying NFL defenses. 

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14 minutes ago, Forge said:

I think that there is a conflation or imprecise definition of processing which is part of the problem. To me, processing is only what you do on the field and in the heat of the moment, and I don't see what makes him special in that specific regard. He does seem to have a good presnap understanding of what is going on, which is very important, so if you want to consider that part of the processing (pre / post) then I'd say he's good in that regard (presnap) but that gets harder to evaluate based on scheme. Is he making the right judgments, or is the scheme telling him where to throw the ball and he's pointing and clicking? very, very difficult to judge and it's going to take someone better than me to really provide a good explanation on why it is whichever it is. 

The work ethic and studying film thing? That's great but not processing for me and that's largely no different than stories we are hearing every year about QB prospects. You hear those stories already about Lance, for example. That on his down time he's watching NFL games and studying NFL defenses. 

Preparation -- film study, tendencies, etc

pre snap processing -- ID coverage, blitz, play change if needed, etc

post snap processing -- meshing what was seen pre-snap with what is being seen NOW

 

All 3 of these things intertwine in great amounts/detail.  What from the film study preparation is recalled (accurately and quickly) to the pre and post snap aspects

How does the adjustment in pre vs post snap info affect the decision making on where the ball should/should not be thrown?

Doing the work is 1 thing.  How that gets absorbed, retained, recalled and applied is a whole different ball game.  Unless someone can sit down with the player (or coaches from college) and dissect specific plays/play calls, it is mostly speculation.  

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1 hour ago, Forge said:

His "processing" is one of the single most overrated draft narratives I've ever heard lol 

Agreed. Mac Jones processing is alright, not good or bad in my opinion. 
 

The only thing I really give Mac Jones credit on is his pocket presence, it’s really good. 
 

- Meh Arm (below average in my opinion, def worse than Cousins who Shanny has worked with)

- Mobility is horrible

- Underthrows tons of deep balls

- His throws look awful... it’s like watching the complete opposite of a spiral

- His athleticism is horrible

- His accuracy is super overrated, although good

- His stomach looks like downs a 12 pack a night

To me, Mac Jones is a Late 2nd/Early 3rd Round QB Prospect. And I’d personally pick him in the first few picks of the 3rd Round.

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29 minutes ago, squire12 said:

Preparation -- film study, tendencies, etc

pre snap processing -- ID coverage, blitz, play change if needed, etc

post snap processing -- meshing what was seen pre-snap with what is being seen NOW

 

All 3 of these things intertwine in great amounts/detail.  What from the film study preparation is recalled (accurately and quickly) to the pre and post snap aspects

How does the adjustment in pre vs post snap info affect the decision making on where the ball should/should not be thrown?

Doing the work is 1 thing.  How that gets absorbed, retained, recalled and applied is a whole different ball game.  Unless someone can sit down with the player (or coaches from college) and dissect specific plays/play calls, it is mostly speculation.  

People said this stuff about Daniel Jones too.... smart QB, coached at QB his entire life, but the talent simply isn’t there. It’s like coaches getting way too cute because they appreciate he has learned all of that stuff already. 

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1 minute ago, BayRaider said:

People said this stuff about Daniel Jones too.... smart QB, coached at QB his entire life, but the talent simply isn’t there. It’s like coaches getting way too cute because they appreciate he has learned all of that stuff already. 

did I attribute any specific attribute to a QB?  

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Mac is an ultra competitor. You see the way he celebrates after Bama scored tuddys. You don’t see that with that this group that much..maybe Zack Wilson sometimes. Macs leadership skills are a little undervalued. 
 

I think if Mac comes to the niners he’s gonna have a lot of success if we protect him. 

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3 hours ago, .Buzz said:

I mean sure, but the point still stands. Burrow had an elite supporting cast.

No doubt. But Burrow elevated his supporting cast. He was a guy who made numerous plays when nothing was there or when pressure got to him quickly. He had you on the edge of your seat. Mac Jones didn't. There's something to be said for ruthless efficiency, but when you're trying to predict how a guy's game will translate, it's not easy to do so when he's rarely facing the sort of adversity he would in the NFL.

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5 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

No doubt. But Burrow elevated his supporting cast. He was a guy who made numerous plays when nothing was there or when pressure got to him quickly. He had you on the edge of your seat. Mac Jones didn't. There's something to be said for ruthless efficiency, but when you're trying to predict how a guy's game will translate, it's not easy to do so when he's rarely facing the sort of adversity he would in the NFL.

I'm not disagreeing with any of that. I'm not a Mac fan at all.

Just bores me when people go on and on about the supporting cast a QB has to knock them. Most of these top QBs that come out of elite programs are going to have a pretty strong supporting cast. Saw the same being said about Lawrence in another thread a couple weeks ago (even though his supporting cast this year really wasn't that good imo). Fields was getting it used as a knock plenty of times earlier in the process as well. Evaluate the QB separately.

Like...shocker: Alabama, Clemson, OSU, etc. have elite skill players. 

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Just now, .Buzz said:

I'm not disagreeing with any of that. I'm not a Mac fan at all.

Just bores me when people go on and on about the supporting cast a QB has to knock them. Most of these top QBs that come out of elite programs are going to have a pretty strong supporting cast. Saw the same being said about Lawrence in another thread a couple weeks ago (even though his supporting cast this year really wasn't that good imo). Same was said about Fields as a knock plenty of times earlier in the process as well.

The supporting cast issue here is that Mac had such a dominant OL and such a dominant #1 WR (who had an insane share of Mac's production) that it is difficult to project his game to the next level. There are some guys who show you more than enough with great supporting casts that they're still easy projections. Burrow was that sort of guy. Jones isn't.

I could easily see myself being dead wrong about Mac Jones. It's that difficult of an evaluation. But my gut tells me he's a guy who isn't going to thrive unless you put him in the perfect circumstances. Now, SF is a damn good spot. If he lands there, I imagine he'll put up good numbers. But I have a feeling that SF fans will be left wanting more, kind of like how they are now with Jimmy.

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1 hour ago, .Buzz said:

I'm not disagreeing with any of that. I'm not a Mac fan at all.

Just bores me when people go on and on about the supporting cast a QB has to knock them. Most of these top QBs that come out of elite programs are going to have a pretty strong supporting cast. Saw the same being said about Lawrence in another thread a couple weeks ago (even though his supporting cast this year really wasn't that good imo). Fields was getting it used as a knock plenty of times earlier in the process as well. Evaluate the QB separately.

Like...shocker: Alabama, Clemson, OSU, etc. have elite skill players. 

Agreed. I have had MANY criticisms of Mac Jones, and supporting cast has never been one of them. I got irritated when people said the same of Tua last year as well. 

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