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Official 2021 QB Thread


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Just now, jrry32 said:

Are you talking about Malik Willis from Liberty? I wouldn't think so, but who can say.

yes lol, I did that like 5 times recently. Not sure if that's my phone auto correcting swipe for some reason, or my brain legitimately typing wilson every time. 

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Just now, Forge said:

yes lol, I did that like 5 times recently. Not sure if that's my phone auto correcting swipe for some reason, or my brain legitimately typing wilson every time. 

Are you about to say that you think he's the next Russell Wilson? 😉

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On 10/21/2020 at 7:00 PM, NYRaider said:

He has the physical tools for sure. I really didn't like his last 5 games of tape though. 

Same. If you can find tape where he looks for a 2/3 option it will be the 1st time. 1st option not there, he runs.

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On 11/28/2020 at 11:35 AM, .Buzz said:

 

This is so misleading. What did he have like 6 seconds in the pocket. You showed him stepping up,  big deal that QB 101. Defender was hardly a threat. WR caught the ball at the  goal line let say he has 4.5 speed. That's what you call a life time in the pocket. 

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28 minutes ago, m haynes said:

This is so misleading. What did he have like 6 seconds in the pocket. You showed him stepping up,  big deal that QB 101. Defender was hardly a threat. WR caught the ball at the  goal line let say he has 4.5 speed. That's what you call a life time in the pocket. 

...

What does this have to do with anything the tweet is about?

No one's propping him up for this play. It's an example of him going through his progressions (which he does plenty) because someone said he never does it.

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1 hour ago, .Buzz said:

...

What does this have to do with anything the tweet is about?

No one's propping him up for this play. It's an example of him going through his progressions (which he does plenty) because someone said he never does it.

Plenty.  Tape show progressions and uses video to prove the point. My point, he has all day, so it useless. I  can read the field with time and OL he has.  There's a graph I saw where his numbers dramatically ( i can't find  ) drop when he is pressured. IMO He's another OSU QB with inflated numbers. The value he has is he can run. Put him with the Ravans he's fine but any other NFL!

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2 hours ago, m haynes said:

Plenty.  Tape show progressions and uses video to prove the point. My point, he has all day, so it useless. I  can read the field with time and OL he has.  There's a graph I saw where his numbers dramatically ( i can't find  ) drop when he is pressured. IMO He's another OSU QB with inflated numbers. The value he has is he can run. Put him with the Ravans he's fine but any other NFL!

Again, ok? 

We all know your thoughts on Fields. You say the same thing everytime:

"Fields is just another OSU QB, they're all the same. Gimmick offense and nothing special, bust."

Love the analysis. Have a good night.

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3 hours ago, .Buzz said:

Again, ok? 

We all know your thoughts on Fields. You say the same thing everytime:

"Fields is just another OSU QB, they're all the same. Gimmick offense and nothing special, bust."

Love the analysis. Have a good night.

Sleep tight Buzzy

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14 hours ago, m haynes said:

Plenty.  Tape show progressions and uses video to prove the point. My point, he has all day, so it useless. I  can read the field with time and OL he has.  There's a graph I saw where his numbers dramatically ( i can't find  ) drop when he is pressured. IMO He's another OSU QB with inflated numbers. The value he has is he can run. Put him with the Ravans he's fine but any other NFL!

There is a point to that, I said similar things with Dwayne Haskins when he came out.  One being the fact Ohio State has never created a super star QB in the history of the school, that is pretty odd for such a massive program.  Second my comment was they had 6 receivers who are all currently in the NFL and three others who will be in the future so that makes nine on that roster alone his final year.  Not to mention a great defense typically with multiple defensive backs drafted and linebackers and defensive linemen.

 

Same can be said for Justin Fields, plays behind a OL with four NFL draft picks arguably, arguably one of the best centers and arguably the best guard in the nation.  Has one or two running backs who will be in the NFL, and not as many receivers as usual but four will be in the NFL including the tight ends potentially.  Ryan Day has shown to be an amazing coach with what he did with Haskins and now Fields.  Fields provides more danger on the field because of his athletic ability and threat to run so that could save him at the next level, but yeah if he gets in the wrong offense in the NFL he could fail.  If in the right one he has a chance but if the "superior" passer Haskins has struggled what chance does Fields have?  It is crazy the progression he had from Georgia to Ohio State, on Georgia it just looked like he was an athlete playing QB but in that Ryan Day system it was totally different.  

 

There is something to it all, and with the fact Fields did struggle against Indiana so much, the best secondary and overall defense he has played this year does say something.  Sure they still won but there were issues in the game, and clearly in the NFL those same mistakes are magnified a lot more and would have mattered more.

 

I will be interesting to see what happens, my guess is Justin Fields is still the #2 pick overall but his bust potential is way higher than the likes of Trevor Lawrence no doubt about it.   And my guess is Ryan Day will be a HC in the NFL very soon so maybe they will team up and try to make it work that way.  Now way he stays at Ohio State that long but will see.  Clearly Ryan Day has figured out college defenses but many college offenses look like gang busts, especially this season where few if any teams even play ok defense at all, everyone gets walked all over.  That is not happening in the NFL, great for the NFL because it makes for a much more entertaining game I feel.

 

In all defense the ability to change coverage post snap is huge and is giving a hint at possibly slowing down some of these offenses and making it not so simple.  Fields does get stuck on receivers at times no question about it.

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He can make some great throws though, but the pocket is usually always perfect with little or no pressure ahead of him.  Does not get blitzed a ton I believe because of his athletic ability in college, especially when the secondary is usually not wall to wall good players.  Will most likely get into the perfect situation with a coach basically built around him, so who knows Jaguars next coach could be Ryan Day.

DefiniteBossyBeardedcollie-size_restrict

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Great post

I have no problem how others feel about Fields however IMO he's a risk at the next level. His play, when pressured drops dramatically. The problem trying to find tape with him pressured. OSU OL is the best in the country, matter fact many consider it one of best in OSU history. Your first two GIFs show a perfect pocket and he has all day to throw. People just refused to listen that he might have a problem at the next level .   He going to go from 5 seconds to 3 with much more complicated defenses at the NFL level.

That's a major concern. 

Last, History is on my side, there are so many Fields sitting by the way side, great college QB that bust as a PRO. Couple examples before I put them down, remember 95% thought they were going to be great at the net level. 

Dwayne Haskins, Baker Mayfield, Marcus Mariota, Blake Bortles, Robert Griffin,Brady Quinn, Vince Young etc. There major problems, pressure and ready defenses.

 

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48 minutes ago, m haynes said:

Great post

I have no problem how others feel about Fields however IMO he's a risk at the next level. His play, when pressured drops dramatically. The problem trying to find tape with him pressured. OSU OL is the best in the country, matter fact many consider it one of best in OSU history. Your first two GIFs show a perfect pocket and he has all day to throw. People just refused to listen that he might have a problem at the next level .   He going to go from 5 seconds to 3 with much more complicated defenses at the NFL level.

That's a major concern. 

Last, History is on my side, there are so many Fields sitting by the way side, great college QB that bust as a PRO. Couple examples before I put them down, remember 95% thought they were going to be great at the net level. 

Dwayne Haskins, Baker Mayfield, Marcus Mariota, Blake Bortles, Robert Griffin,Brady Quinn, Vince Young etc. There major problems, pressure and ready defenses.

 

I disagree with the OL comment, Ohio State is top 3 no question but give me Bama's OL over Ohio State this year.  Dickerson has arguably played just as good as Meyers has and the Bama tackles are better than the Ohio State ones I feel.

 

Mariota I thought was overrated because of his athletic ability and I did not like him on Oregon because of that.  I never thought he would be good long term but has great character but clearly that has not mattered much in the NFL.  Bortles I liked as a playmaker but was overrated because of how great UCF was and originally most thought it was because of him, but now consistently UCF is a top program regardless of the QB.  They have a great system and great talent base, but I thought Bortles would have done better, did play well early in his career then lost it.  Baker's career is not over yet, he is way better than Haskins is.  Griffin III just came into the league at the wrong time, now a days it would have been better for him but either way if he cannot physically stay together it would never work anyway.  Brady Quinn I think was just in an awful situation in Cleveland and shows if one does not have protection and weapons you are done for no matter how good you are.  Vince Young I always thought should have switched to WR, he was awful as a passer, Justin Fields is way better as a passer than Vince Young was. 

But fact is the NFL is changing, multiple guys who had thousand yard rush seasons in college are doing pretty decent in the NFL, Cam Newton obviously but not as great of late, Kyler Murray has been good and so has Lamar Jackson but both have show limitations this season with the improvement of NFL defenses getting used to the QB run game.  Oddly enough Justin Fields never has came close to ever rushing for 1000 yards in college so that is a good sign.  Marcus Mariota for example ran for 700+ yards three years in a row, Justin Fields has never rushed for over 400 yards in a season so that is saying something.  Johnny Manziel is another who had 1400 yards rushing in a season and that zone read was a massive reason to his success as a player and the ability to gain yards with his legs.  Once that goes away then it is obviously crap, not to mention all the look at me stuff he showed a lot in college and the attitude issues as well.  

Hopefully they play the Ohio State vs MSU game today, will be very interesting to watch Fields because there is no Ryan Day and they are missing a lot of guys as well, curious how he plays against a Michigan State team who has showed good fight and have a decent enough defense as well.  

 

Then again Josh Allen tons had a problem with his lack of development as a pass coming into the league, and obviously that did not mean a thing and the kid can ball.  Then again not sure Justin Fields has that type of arm talent that Josh Allen had.  None of the guys you listed really come even close to Josh Allen type arm talent.  Side by side Allen dominated those drills at the combine, sure Haskins was ok but nothing  compared to Allen especially when moving around and "pressured".

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Where is this "terrible when pressured" comment even coming from? Like where are we seeing this?

He had a bad game last week, I'm well aware. But I haven't seen this notion watching him unless we're talking about him holding onto the ball too long and not getting rid of it fast when he is pressured. Either way, most QBs (especially young ones still developing) are going to have more issues when pressured versus a clean pocket. That's not groundbreaking.

Fields has his issues/things that need worked on (yes, OSU has a QB friendly offense), but playing at OSU/their past QB prospects isn't even on my radar when talking about him as a prospect. Ryan Day has implemented a different offensive scheme than when Dwayne Haskins was there and all the former OSU QBs, Fields is much more accurate than Haskins was, AND Fields is a much superior athlete to Haskins which is/was a big issue for Haskins (that's not even getting into his character concerns Haskins has). 

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https://thedraftnetwork.com/articles/justin-fields-different-ohio-state-qbs

Pretty sure I posted the above article in here when it dropped, but maybe it was just in the Jaguars forum. Either way, good analysis from Jordan Reid over at TDN going through the OSU QBs over the years and their games compared to Fields.

If he fails, it won't have anything to do with where he played in college.

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