Jump to content

Gameballs & Mike Nolans


CAPJ

Recommended Posts

47 minutes ago, The_Slamman said:

Matts is rarely right so I have to give him props when he is.  Why would anyone try to cut down good discussion?

Is it really good conversation though? It’s the same tired argument over and over again. It’s why we have one thread devoted to Dak. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Matts4313 said:

Not a strawman. If we want to shed fat, lets cut the people who arent nearly as responsible for us being competitive. Why make it about Dak? Why not all the overpaid other people?

Dak is the best player on our team (though Martin has a case).

I wouldnt say Martin has a case, he is clearly better at playing Guard than Dak is at QB and that is not a shot at Dak.

Martin is consistently #1 or #2 at his position every year and should end up in the Hall of Fame.

I would also have Tyron Smith better as well. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, The_Slamman said:

First, I agree that DLaw has underperformed and is not justifying his contract extension.  Zeke has been a complete disaster and an argument could be made for cutting him this offseason.  Injuries are what they are.  I see them differently than poor play.  
 

however, there is nothing irrational or lazy about about questioning how spending $40M a year on Dak makes this team better.  In case you haven’t figured it out... we kinda suck while paying him $31M.  We really should be 0-6.  And, whether you want to admit it or not... Dak is part of the problem with his TOs.  Like I said before... if Dak played in quarters 1-3 the same way he plays in the 4th quarter while losing in a blowout, by all means, pay him the $40M.  But that’s not what’s happening.  Dak has been given more offensive weapons than any other QB in this league.  It’s not working.  Dak has been given huge investments in the OL (even before injuries) and it still not working.  
 

Next year Dak will be tagged at $37M+.  It’s a cap prohibitive number.  It eliminates the option of trying to improve the team in free agency.  However, if we tag Dak and trade him for 2 first round picks to a team that thinks they are close to winning with a good qb... it opens up over $30M in cap space.  Combine that with multiple high draft picks, it gives us a chance to rebuild.  Keeping the status quo neither gives us draft capital nor cap flexibility.  

First, we're not talking about next year. We're talking about this year. Raising next year is a red herring since a lot can happen between now and whenever the 2021 season kicks off, such as Dak signing an extension. 

Your focus on Dak is a lazy argument because you're a) blaming him for largely the team's problems on and off the field (the latter being cap management), and b) ignoring the multiple reasons for why the team has not lived up to expectations this year. The team was able to win games because Dak gave them a chance to do so. Prior to last game, the Boys were average 32 points a game with Dak as the QB. How is that "not working"? How much more does the QB and the offence for that matter have to do? Entering week 6, the Boys were the highest-scoring team and the league's best offence. Unless Dak and anyone on the offensive side can play defence, it is irrational to lay blame on them for the team's problems. You can say turnovers have been an issue (definitely for Zeke), but look at how many of Dak's INTs have come late in games when he's asked to make things happen since the defence has given up 35 or more points once again even though the offence has scored 31. If the team had even an average defence, Dak would be asked to do less. That unfortunately hasn't been the case.

And we saw last night how effective a Dak-less offence is - they suck. And it's not just the OL. Dak's mobility and ability to get out of the pocket are big reasons why the team could move the football. He covered up a lot of the OL's problems with his scrambling ability. His mobility also gives the team more options. How many defences are really going to bite on a read-option play with Dalton at QB? And the team ran this play a couple of times last night with little success. 

Is Dak completely devoid of responsibility for the team's struggles? No, he has had untimely turnovers. He's the main reason for it? Absolutely not? Is he one of the biggest problems on the team? No. As much as you want to clamour for re-allocating funds from the most important position on a football club, remember that it's not easy to find a Pro Bowl-calibre QB. The team has gotten luck with Dak and Romo before him, but we don't need to look very far to see the days of Quincy Carter, Chad Hutchison, Drew Henson, and over-the-hill Vinny Testaverde and Drew Bledsoe under center. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, D82 said:

Is it really good conversation though? It’s the same tired argument over and over again. It’s why we have one thread devoted to Dak. 

Well, think of it this way... the GB thread typically get as many posts as the “Seeking Out Somebody Names TheStarStillShines” thread” (about 2 pages).  We are now over 5 pages and counting.  I see why anybody would want to stifle conversation.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

38 minutes ago, TheStarStillShines said:

First, we're not talking about next year. We're talking about this year. Raising next year is a red herring since a lot can happen between now and whenever the 2021 season kicks off, such as Dak signing an extension. 

Your focus on Dak is a lazy argument because you're a) blaming him for largely the team's problems on and off the field (the latter being cap management), and b) ignoring the multiple reasons for why the team has not lived up to expectations this year. The team was able to win games because Dak gave them a chance to do so. Prior to last game, the Boys were average 32 points a game with Dak as the QB. How is that "not working"? How much more does the QB and the offence for that matter have to do? Entering week 6, the Boys were the highest-scoring team and the league's best offence. Unless Dak and anyone on the offensive side can play defence, it is irrational to lay blame on them for the team's problems. You can say turnovers have been an issue (definitely for Zeke), but look at how many of Dak's INTs have come late in games when he's asked to make things happen since the defence has given up 35 or more points once again even though the offence has scored 31. If the team had even an average defence, Dak would be asked to do less. That unfortunately hasn't been the case.

And we saw last night how effective a Dak-less offence is - they suck. And it's not just the OL. Dak's mobility and ability to get out of the pocket are big reasons why the team could move the football. He covered up a lot of the OL's problems with his scrambling ability. His mobility also gives the team more options. How many defences are really going to bite on a read-option play with Dalton at QB? And the team ran this play a couple of times last night with little success. 

Is Dak completely devoid of responsibility for the team's struggles? No, he has had untimely turnovers. He's the main reason for it? Absolutely not? Is he one of the biggest problems on the team? No. As much as you want to clamour for re-allocating funds from the most important position on a football club, remember that it's not easy to find a Pro Bowl-calibre QB. The team has gotten luck with Dak and Romo before him, but we don't need to look very far to see the days of Quincy Carter, Chad Hutchison, Drew Henson, and over-the-hill Vinny Testaverde and Drew Bledsoe under center. 

Fine, let’s talk recent history.  Dak is an above average QB but he is not an elite QB.  A team can win with Dak as a QB but It needs to be built right.  It requires an awesome OL, an awesome ground game, and at least 1 stud WR.  It requires a defense that gets takeaways. Our 2016 squad is a good example of winning with Dak.  We were a run dominant team.  You do not need an elite qb to win with those types of teams.  See Ryan Tannehill, Trent Dilfer, Colin Krappernick, etc.  In 2020, Dak is the highest paid player in the NFL and this is the worst football team we have fielded in his 5 years... despite Dak having his best offensive weapons in those 5 years.  Think about that.  It’s actually quite remarkable.  The highest paid player with probably the best offensive weapons in the NFL yet the team is worse than at any point in the past 5 years.  WTF?  Here’s the truth...  Dak going from $3M a year to $31M a year cost us 2 stud defensive players from last year (on a defense that was already questionable).  
 

When has it EVER worked out for a team to pay an average to above average QB elite money?  It’s not working for the Dallas Cowboys this year.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

47 minutes ago, The_Slamman said:

Fine, let’s talk recent history.  Dak is an above average QB but he is not an elite QB.  A team can win with Dak as a QB but It needs to be built right.  It requires an awesome OL, an awesome ground game, and at least 1 stud WR.  It requires a defense that gets takeaways. Our 2016 squad is a good example of winning with Dak.  We were a run dominant team.  You do not need an elite qb to win with those types of teams.  See Ryan Tannehill, Trent Dilfer, Colin Krappernick, etc.  In 2020, Dak is the highest paid player in the NFL and this is the worst football team we have fielded in his 5 years... despite Dak having his best offensive weapons in those 5 years.  Think about that.  It’s actually quite remarkable.  The highest paid player with probably the best offensive weapons in the NFL yet the team is worse than at any point in the past 5 years.  WTF?  Here’s the truth...  Dak going from $3M a year to $31M a year cost us 2 stud defensive players from last year (on a defense that was already questionable).  
 

When has it EVER worked out for a team to pay an average to above average QB elite money?  It’s not working for the Dallas Cowboys this year.  

Once again, your argument is full of holes, and you continue to ignore them. There's no need to go forward with this conversation because of  your complete dislike and bias against Dak. The team is worse than last year because of a lot of issues that go beyond Dak. What you have described is the ideal football team. Every team aspires to have a great OL, stud WR, an effective ground game, and a great defence. As such, what's the point of that? Brady doesn't win 6 SBs without a great defence, especially three out of the six he won. Manning doesn't win his two without a defence. Brees doesn't sniff a ring without a better supporting cast. 

And teams don't win Super Bowls without great QB play. There are a few instances where teams have won with a so-so QB (like the Ravens with Dilfer and the Giants with Hostetler), but those are the exceptions than the rule. It's difficult to win a championship with just an adequate QB. But if you think the Boys would be better with the Tannenhills and Daltons of the world, you're entitled to that. History shows the opposite.

Whether you think Dak is elite or not is also up to you. I think he's quite elite, at least not at the level of a Mahomes or Wilson, but he's well-above average. He still might end up great, much like Drew Brees, who was an above-average QB until he moved to New Orleans. Even then, he had similar struggles as Dak and couldn't get over the hump without a better supporting cast. There's only so much a QB can do to cover up his team's weaknesses unless he's able to play every single down on offence and defence. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, The_Slamman said:

Dak is an above average QB but he is not an elite QB.  A team can win with Dak as a QB but It needs to be built right.  It requires an awesome OL, an awesome ground game, and at least 1 stud WR.  It requires a defense that gets takeaways. 

Dude, our offense was #1 this year and #1 last year and we had almost *none* of these things.

Edited by Matts4313
Link to comment
Share on other sites

GB:  I got nothing.   
HM:  think the song, “ bright side of life” during the movie Life of Brian..   I am going with Diggs.  I was very happy with what I saw on him  covering Hopkins early in the game.  Showed to me he will be a elite man cover once he learns the players and the game 

JS. Zeke.  His fumbles set the tone and the train wreck.  Score was zero zero our D had made stops when Zeke fumbled at mid field. We were moving getting into rhythm at that time. The second fumble kept the snow ball going down hill.
 

HM. The D Everyone else.  We had good effort in the game tell the real bad non call that lead to a interception.   After that the O gave some effort but were just overwhelmed.

Edited by quiller
Link to comment
Share on other sites

35 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

Dude, our offense was #1 this year and #1 last year and we had almost *none* of these things.

Clearly you still don’t get it.  #1 offense really means nothing.  In case you already forgot... yes, Dak did put up impressive stats against the absolute worst defenses in the NFL last year... teams drafting in  top 5.  But, as you should recall... so did every other average QB in the NFL including Andy Dalton, Daniel Jones and Jameis Winston.  Against everyone else... Dak was very average.  
 

Here’s what you are missing (and missing badly).  In 2020, Dallas ranks 29th in TOP.  In 2019, we ranked 18th.  In 2016, on the other hand when we had the best record in the nfc, we ranked 3rd.  In 2013, the Philadelphia Eagles ranked 32 in TOP but had the #2 ranked offense in the nfl.  By contrast, the year philly won the SB, the eagles ranked #1 in TOP and #4 in total offense.  Do you understand what this means?  Over the past two years our “#1” offense has turned into the Chip Kelly Eagles.  It’s not a ball control offense that we had when we were actually good.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...