BStanRamFan Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 2 minutes ago, jrry32 said: Murray is not better than Goff at this stage in his career. I think he is. Goff is on the left. Murray on the right. Far more dynamic with running capbilities. Goff is slightly better from a completion percentage, but not much. Completions 151 169 Attempts 223 253 Percentage 67.7 66.8 Yards 1,789 1,847 Yds/Att 8.0 7.3 TD 12 13 INT 4 7 Sacked 8 9 Rushing Attempts 24 65 Yards 40 437 Yds/Att 1.7 6.7 Long 10 48 20+ 0 0 TD 2 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 4 minutes ago, BStanRamFan said: I think he is. Goff is on the left. Murray on the right. Far more dynamic with running capbilities. Goff is slightly better from a completion percentage, but not much. Completions 151 169 Attempts 223 253 Percentage 67.7 66.8 Yards 1,789 1,847 Yds/Att 8.0 7.3 TD 12 13 INT 4 7 Sacked 8 9 Rushing Attempts 24 65 Yards 40 437 Yds/Att 1.7 6.7 Long 10 48 20+ 0 0 TD 2 7 Goff is superior in every single passing metric. He has a better passer rating (by a lot), YPA (by a lot), completion %, TD%, INT%, and TD:Int ratio. Yes, Murray is a great runner, but Goff is clearly the better passer. We're talking about QBs, so that makes the choice easy for me. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BStanRamFan Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 2 minutes ago, jrry32 said: Goff is superior in every single passing metric. He has a better passer rating (by a lot), YPA (by a lot), completion %, TD%, INT%, and TD:Int ratio. Yes, Murray is a great runner, but Goff is clearly the better passer. We're talking about QBs, so that makes the choice easy for me. Derek Carr, Justin Herbert, and Josh Allen all have better passer ratings than Goff. Would you put any of them above Goff cause of it? I think not. YPA difference is less than a yard as noted above. Completion % is less than 1 as noted above. Stats matter. I won't pretend they don't, but being dynamic in todays NFL is more valuable then the pocker passer mentality of old. Once Brady and Brees are gone, being one-dimensional as a QB will be completely antiquated. If you can't see how special Kyler Murray is by now then I highly doubt I'm going to show you and don't want to exhaust the time trying to. Goff is a GOOD QB. He can win us a SuperBowl and I think he will. But the moment anyone slightly diminishes Goff in any way this board grabs their pitch forks and torches. Let's be honest with ourselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stl4life07 Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, BStanRamFan said: Mahomes Wilson Rodgers Lamar Jackson Brady Deshaun Watson Kyler Murray Big Ben Drew Brees {Matt Ryan, Jared Goff, Ryan Tannehill, Josh Allen, Matt Stafford} <--- He's in this bracket. This bracket is fine. This bracket can win a SuperBowl. I want Goff ranked higher among the others on the list. He's not. Again, my expectations are either too high or according to @jrry32 not patient enough. 🤷♂️ Im not putting Murray in the top 10. This is my top 10 but in no particular order: Mahomes Wilson ARod Jackson Watson Goff Brees Brady Big Ben Ryan I dont have Murray because I have to see more. Was good last season and is even better this season but I need to see more. His team has never finished even 3rd in the NFC West either. Now Murray is definitely coming so I have no doubt in a year or two he is firmly in my top 10 but right now its too early for me. I have to see him at least lead his team to the playoffs or finish 2nd in the NFC West. Edited October 29, 2020 by stl4life07 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky_rams Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 4 hours ago, BStanRamFan said: Mahomes Wilson Rodgers Lamar Jackson Brady Deshaun Watson Kyler Murray Big Ben Drew Brees {Matt Ryan, Jared Goff, Ryan Tannehill, Josh Allen, Matt Stafford} <--- He's in this bracket. This bracket is fine. This bracket can win a SuperBowl. I want Goff ranked higher among the others on the list. He's not. Again, my expectations are either too high or according to @jrry32 not patient enough. 🤷♂️ Only QBs I’d take before Goff on this list are Mahomes, Wilson, Rodgers, and Brady. Watson is a maybe. Dont think the other QBs are better than Goff if I’m being honest 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky_rams Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, BStanRamFan said: Derek Carr, Justin Herbert, and Josh Allen all have better passer ratings than Goff. Would you put any of them above Goff cause of it? I think not. YPA difference is less than a yard as noted above. Completion % is less than 1 as noted above. Stats matter. I won't pretend they don't, but being dynamic in todays NFL is more valuable then the pocker passer mentality of old. Once Brady and Brees are gone, being one-dimensional as a QB will be completely antiquated. If you can't see how special Kyler Murray is by now then I highly doubt I'm going to show you and don't want to exhaust the time trying to. Goff is a GOOD QB. He can win us a SuperBowl and I think he will. But the moment anyone slightly diminishes Goff in any way this board grabs their pitch forks and torches. Let's be honest with ourselves. Look at my posts about Goff from last year and then come again. The only person who was bashing Goff worse than me was @Flounch but he doesn’t count because he may not even be a fan. Goff has drastically improved and this year he is a Top 10 QB. He may even finish higher. Last year he was top 20. Also to your MVP point, Cam was an MVP, now look at him. It takes time for pocket passers to develop. They can’t just run outside the pocket every play and wait for guys to get open like others can. It’s a whole different playing style. All pocket QBs crumble during pressure. That’s natural. The only difference is most lose their footwork and timing, and force throws for the entire game, rather than bouncing back in the same game. If Goff can overcome that, then he’ll be elite Edited October 29, 2020 by rocky_rams 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BStanRamFan Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 1 minute ago, rocky_rams said: If Goff can overcome that, then he’ll be elite Oh good, we agree. He is not elite, but can be. My expectation was for him to be elite by year 5. My expectations were presumably too high (as stated a 3rd time). lol 🏳️ giving up this one. Not worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky_rams Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 43 minutes ago, BStanRamFan said: Oh good, we agree. He is not elite, but can be. My expectation was for him to be elite by year 5. My expectations were presumably too high (as stated a 3rd time). lol 🏳️ giving up this one. Not worth it. Nobody is saying he’s elite. But also he’s not average or good as some of you making it seem. Right now, he’s very good and in the Top 10 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btfd16 Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 54 minutes ago, rocky_rams said: Only QBs I’d take before Goff on this list are Mahomes, Wilson, Rodgers, and Brady. Watson is a maybe. Dont think the other QBs are better than Goff if I’m being honest No offense intended but I think you're nuts. Don't just think about the QBs think about those QBs and then put them with McVay..... Oooohweeee some of those would light **** up 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BStanRamFan Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 40 minutes ago, btfd16 said: No offense intended but I think you're nuts. Don't just think about the QBs think about those QBs and then put them with McVay..... Oooohweeee some of those would light **** up Want to know the difference between Matt Stafford and Jared Goff? It's not weapons. Marvin Jones, Kenny Golladay, Calvin Johnson, Golden Tate are all on par talent wise(if not more talented) then Kupp, Woods, Watkins, Cooks. It's not an easy divison. The Bears, Packers, and Vikings have all rotated winning the division over the last 12 or so years. It's coaching. Rod Marinelli, Jim Caldwell, Jim Schwartz, and Matt Patricia are not on McVay's level. And only one of them was an offensive mind (Caldwell) Goff is GOOD. He's played 4 seasons. 1 we throw out the window for good reason(2016). 1 we attribute poor play to a horrible O-line(2019). 2 he played very well. This year he is playing on par with 2017's season (YPG same , YPA same, INT% similar, his completion % is career high, but he's also throwing the deep ball alot less) TD to INT in 2017: 4-1 TD to INT in 2020: 3-1. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 4 hours ago, BStanRamFan said: Derek Carr, Justin Herbert, and Josh Allen all have better passer ratings than Goff. Would you put any of them above Goff cause of it? I think not. YPA difference is less than a yard as noted above. Completion % is less than 1 as noted above. This is a bad argument. Goff has a history of success. Murray doesn't. Herbert doesn't. Allen doesn't. And Carr is a bit iffier. Regardless, I don't need the stats to see Goff is a better passer right now. And a 0.7 yard difference in YPA is quite large. 4 hours ago, BStanRamFan said: Stats matter. I won't pretend they don't, but being dynamic in todays NFL is more valuable then the pocker passer mentality of old. Once Brady and Brees are gone, being one-dimensional as a QB will be completely antiquated. If you can't see how special Kyler Murray is by now then I highly doubt I'm going to show you and don't want to exhaust the time trying to. Goff is a GOOD QB. He can win us a SuperBowl and I think he will. But the moment anyone slightly diminishes Goff in any way this board grabs their pitch forks and torches. Let's be honest with ourselves. I disagree that being a pocket passer will be antiquated. Good/great pocket passers get better with age, have longer careers, and are more effective later into their careers. That's not going to change. And don't act like you're being victimized because I disagree with you calling Murray a better QB. His passing metrics are below average. They're on par with Mayfield, Fitzpatrick, Minshew, and Stafford. Goff's are on pace with Brady, Brees, Dak, and Big Ben. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 4 minutes ago, BStanRamFan said: Want to know the difference between Matt Stafford and Jared Goff? It's not weapons. Marvin Jones, Kenny Golladay, Calvin Johnson, Golden Tate are all on par talent wise(if not more talented) then Kupp, Woods, Watkins, Cooks. It's not an easy divison. The Bears, Packers, and Vikings have all rotated winning the division over the last 12 or so years. It's coaching. Rod Marinelli, Jim Caldwell, Jim Schwartz, and Matt Patricia are not on McVay's level. And only one of them was an offensive mind (Caldwell) You're also comparing early-career Goff with prime Stafford. Early-career Stafford wasn't in early-career Goff's league. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BStanRamFan Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 (edited) 9 minutes ago, jrry32 said: This is a bad argument. Goff has a history of success. Murray doesn't. Herbert doesn't. Allen doesn't. And Carr is a bit iffier. Regardless, I don't need the stats to see Goff is a better passer right now. And a 0.7 yard difference in YPA is quite large. Arguments you dont like, do not make them bad arguments. We are talking about as of right now. Murray doesn't have a history of success because he doesn't have a history. It's year 2 and he is very special. And I agree you do not need to see the stats to see that Murray is special. 9 minutes ago, jrry32 said: I disagree that being a pocket passer will be antiquated. Good/great pocket passers get better with age, have longer careers, and are more effective later into their careers. That's not going to change. Russ Wilson wants to play until 45. Obviously that is a bit ambitious, but he is a mobile, accurate QB, with limited injury history because he has the ability to slide. Murray with his baseball history has the same approach to the game. It's his pro comparison for good reason. He takes very few hits for how mobile he is. 9 minutes ago, jrry32 said: And don't act like you're being victimized because I disagree with you calling Murray a better QB. His passing metrics are below average. They're on par with Mayfield, Fitzpatrick, Minshew, and Stafford. Goff's are on pace with Brady, Brees, Dak, and Big Ben. It's not just you. It's ALOT of people on the Rams board that come to the aid of anyone slightly negative on Goff even if you're complimenting him, but not fully on your knees gobbling his knob. Edited October 29, 2020 by BStanRamFan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky_rams Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 1 hour ago, btfd16 said: No offense intended but I think you're nuts. Don't just think about the QBs think about those QBs and then put them with McVay..... Oooohweeee some of those would light **** up I’m gonna share a little secret with you that most don’t want to hear. McVays play calling sometimes holds Goff back and puts Goff in bad spots, which force him to make bad throws. You have to understand it’s not always McVay helping Goff. Goff can make every throw which makes it easier for McVay to game plan around. Which QBs would you take over Goff other than the ones I mentioned? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRamsFan88 Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 52 minutes ago, rocky_rams said: I’m gonna share a little secret with you that most don’t want to hear. McVays play calling sometimes holds Goff back and puts Goff in bad spots, which force him to make bad throws. You have to understand it’s not always McVay helping Goff. Goff can make every throw which makes it easier for McVay to game plan around. Which QBs would you take over Goff other than the ones I mentioned? I’m not afraid to admit this at all. Sometimes McVay gets too cute and makes some really questionable calls...kind of like the second half of the last game we played... Goff is doing fine right now. Fans are quick to forget how bad our QB situation before we drafted Goff. I wouldn’t trade him for any other QB except the big names ( Mahomes, Wilson, Brady, Brees, Ben ) everyone else not listed has not shown me enough consistency or are just plain average Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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