Broncofan Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, Deadpulse said: The way this has gone down and the timing of it... this is the plan from the moment the drafted him. There is no way you bench your starter for the future after win on a Tuesday before your bye if that wasnt always what you were going to do. Keep in mind pre-Covid schedule changes, though, that bye change would have been a bye week 10 sandwiched around NYJ games...and after they faced LAR & LAC pre-bye. I'm not arguing the logic at all, but it's safe to say Covid did a number on what probably was a very sound plan....still sound in theory, but the execution looks very different now. Edited October 20, 2020 by Broncofan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKillerNacho Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 2 hours ago, RavensTillIDie said: I disagree with this take because I think you are underestimating the learning curve of the NFL. Granted it is a limited sample size, but look at all the 1st round quarterbacks who sat for over a year or at least close to it before playing their first game: Rodgers Mahomes Rivers Brees (1st pick of 2nd round) Palmer Culpepper McNair (Started at the very end of his rookie season) I don't think people give enough credit to teams that exercise patience with their rookie 1st round quarterbacks. Look at at all the QBs who started their rookie year and ended up having great careers: Manning (both) Roethlisberger Wilson Stafford Newton Ryan Luck (derailed by injuries, sadly, but still) McNabb Flacco Tannehill (soon to be known as the GOAT) Bledsoe Marino Elway Meanwhile, there's plenty of 1st round QBs who sat a year (or most of a year) and still sucked. Jake Locker, Tim Tebow, Dwayne Haskins and Paxton Lynch immediately come to mind. We could keep naming names pointlessly, or we can just admit that whether it's beneficial or not is situational to who the player is, what the team around them is, and whether or not they have what it takes to succeed in this league in the first place. In the case of Tua, we have a pretty solid team around him at present and he was considered pro-ready coming out. If the coaches feel he's ready, and clearly they do, there's little reason to wait. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadpulse Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 1 minute ago, Broncofan said: Keep in mind pre-Covid schedule changes, though, that bye change would have been a bye week sandwiched around NYJ games...and after they faced LAR & LAC pre-bye. I'm not arguing the logic at all, but it's safe to say Covid did a number on what probably was a very sound plan....still sound in theory, but the execution looks very different now. very true. I am not even saying that this is the wrong move now. However, what a bad year to break in your hopeful savior 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Smithers Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 Process over results. Love it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RavensTillIDie Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 2 hours ago, -Hope- said: you forgot at least one: jake locker lol To be fair, Jake did play some in his rookie year due to injury. And while he did prove to be terrible, I recall a rash of injuries being what ultimately did his career in, so needs an asterisk next to his name for the given premise of sitting first round QBs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RavensTillIDie Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 42 minutes ago, TheKillerNacho said: Look at at all the QBs who started their rookie year and ended up having great careers: Manning (both) Roethlisberger Wilson Stafford Newton Ryan Luck (derailed by injuries, sadly, but still) McNabb Flacco Tannehill (soon to be known as the GOAT) Bledsoe Marino Elway Meanwhile, there's plenty of 1st round QBs who sat a year (or most of a year) and still sucked. Jake Locker, Tim Tebow, Dwayne Haskins and Paxton Lynch immediately come to mind. We could keep naming names pointlessly, or we can just admit that whether it's beneficial or not is situational to who the player is, what the team around them is, and whether or not they have what it takes to succeed in this league in the first place. In the case of Tua, we have a pretty solid team around him at present and he was considered pro-ready coming out. If the coaches feel he's ready, and clearly they do, there's little reason to wait. I already spoke about Locker, but you need a huge asterisk next to Tebows name given the varying success/mania he had surrounding him and the drastically different way he played the quarterback position relative to his peers. Haskins played in 9 games his rookie season and started 7. You see where he is now. Lynch was forced into spot duty due to injury in his rookie season and his confidence waned as the mistakes piled up. Then again, like others, injuries + low confidence derailed his career. Point being of those who truly stuck to the plan of holding their quarterback out and letting them learn, there are significantly more success stories than there are failures. And really that's what my argument is, while obviously a lot of great quarterbacks have started right away and had success, there are countless others who have underwhelmed or outright failed. Just playing the percentages, a young quarterback has a higher likelihood of succeeding in the NFL is a team is willing to exhibit patience, let them sit, and continue to build up the pieces around them in order for them to be successful when they do finally step into the starting role. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKillerNacho Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 7 minutes ago, RavensTillIDie said: I already spoke about Locker, but you need a huge asterisk next to Tebows name given the varying success/mania he had surrounding him and the drastically different way he played the quarterback position relative to his peers. Haskins played in 9 games his rookie season and started 7. You see where he is now. Lynch was forced into spot duty due to injury in his rookie season and his confidence waned as the mistakes piled up. Then again, like others, injuries + low confidence derailed his career. Point being of those who truly stuck to the plan of holding their quarterback out and letting them learn, there are significantly more success stories than there are failures. And really that's what my argument is, while obviously a lot of great quarterbacks have started right away and had success, there are countless others who have underwhelmed or outright failed. No, there really isn't. You're going to need more than a few names to prove that. I can name countless QBs who succeeded or failed on either side of "started in their rookie season" and "didn't". Most QBs end up being "failures" ultimately, regardless, but the amount of successes between the two school of thought are about equal. To add more to the "wait to start your QB" failures in the 1st round: Brady Quinn JaMarcus Russell Kellen Clemens JP Losman Rex Grossman There's also a number of QBs who fall "in between", as you've said. Quote Just playing the percentages, a young quarterback has a higher likelihood of succeeding in the NFL is a team is willing to exhibit patience, let them sit, and continue to build up the pieces around them in order for them to be successful when they do finally step into the starting role. Well you hit the major nail on the head: there's a strong correlation between QBs who are playing on bad teams sucking and QBs who are playing on good teams working out. Most of the top QBs go to perennial bottom dwellers which is why they tend to struggle. And most of those teams continue to suck so it wouldn't have likely mattered if they had sat out or not. Which is why I said it comes down to situation. Miami is actually a solid enough team that we aren't throwing him to the wolves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tetsujin Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 3 hours ago, pwny said: Why? Did you want them to not practice with him as the #1 over the next two weeks? Or did you expect that they could have him taking #1 reps and that no one would report on it? I've read that when we were working on the Wildcat, the Dolphins asked the press to not report it, and they complied. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael1976 Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 (edited) 9 hours ago, TheKillerNacho said: I don't think that's it at all. At 3-3 we are definitely in play for a wildcard looking at how the AFC is atm. He must be very impressive in practice for them to do this, honestly. All kidding aside. Personally I would have rode the Fitzmagic roller coaster until it went of the rails. With that being said, I was one of the few that wanted the Lions to draft him and am looking forward to seeing how he does. Edited October 21, 2020 by Michael1976 Typo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Smithers Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 Lol it’s 2020 and people are still holding onto ideology of 30 years ago where young QBs should sit a year. So silly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motion Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 Fitz is like a rubber band, the longer he goes the more likely he is to snap back into your face and hurt you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr LBC Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 3 hours ago, RavensTillIDie said: I already spoke about Locker, but you need a huge asterisk next to Tebows name given the varying success/mania he had surrounding him and the drastically different way he played the quarterback position relative to his peers. Haskins played in 9 games his rookie season and started 7. You see where he is now. Lynch was forced into spot duty due to injury in his rookie season and his confidence waned as the mistakes piled up. Then again, like others, injuries + low confidence derailed his career. Point being of those who truly stuck to the plan of holding their quarterback out and letting them learn, there are significantly more success stories than there are failures. And really that's what my argument is, while obviously a lot of great quarterbacks have started right away and had success, there are countless others who have underwhelmed or outright failed. Just playing the percentages, a young quarterback has a higher likelihood of succeeding in the NFL is a team is willing to exhibit patience, let them sit, and continue to build up the pieces around them in order for them to be successful when they do finally step into the starting role. Also, playing the percentages without doing a deep-dive into a myriad of other contributing factors (the absolute least of which would would have relevance if we're going back to the likes of the Peyton, Bledsoe, Marino, and Elway as proof-positive examples would be QB's who were early-declares vs college/graduating seniors when they were drafted). There's a reason why Parcells - who was very much a "play the percentages" kind of coach before it was trendy - weighted that factor in his franchise QB checklist when considering draft prospects. Notice the trend, that as we've progressed more into the era where early-declares were more prominently/highly drafted, the success rate of those (where we're talking actual sustained high-end production during the life of their rookie contract, not just "he started and didn't get himself benched/replaced") appears very much tied to sitting a good chunk of that first-year. We also can't dismiss the fact that the "young QB's need to be afforded the chance to sit a year" narrative was largely discarded for the "you don't draft a guy that early to sit him early" narrative in near simultaneity with the installation of the rookie wage scale and the 5th-year-option. Like I said, and like I think you're seeing as well, while people want to go for the quick and easy clip-bit, full context shows there are more factors to be considered than the easy clip-bit wants to acknowledge. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelKing728 Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 19 hours ago, iknowcool said: Cowboys would be fools to at least not see what they could get Fitz for You can have Cousins!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom cody Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 The Dolphins are playing somewhat well, I would have just stayed with Fitzpatrick at QB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FinSting Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 8 minutes ago, tom cody said: The Dolphins are playing somewhat well, I would have just stayed with Fitzpatrick at QB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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