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Thing For Which We Should Give Credit to Patricia and Quin

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Matt Patricia and Bob Quin have been getting bashed lately and they have pretty much earned it.  However, we should give them credit for some things:

1. Hiring Darell Bevell as OC:  Bevell hasn't been perfect but he has been the best OC we have had in a while

2. Hiring Hank Fraley as OL Coach:  He  has made a big impact this year.  We need to keep him even if Patricia is fired

3. Hiring Brayden Coombs as our Special Teams Coach:  He has made a world of difference on our special teams.  We should keep him no matter what just like Fraley.  John Harbaugh was a special teams coach for 9 years.  Hmmm.

4. Our 2020 Draft Class:  Okudah is improving every week and is starting to play noticeably better.  Jonah Jackson has has started every game and been solid.  DeAndre Swift is starting to flash.  Even John Penisini, a 6th round pick, has carved out a rotational role.  Make you wonder what things would be like with a regular off-season

5. Extending Taylor Decker:  I haven't always been a fan but he is playing like a top-tier LT.  

6. Drafting Frank Ragnow:  The tone-setter and pro-bowl talent we have needed so badly for so long on the o-line

7.  Drafting Kenny Golladay:  Grabbing a Prob-Bowl WR in the third round is good drafting.  Lets hope the extension gets done soon

8. Drafting Amani Oruwariye:  He is developing in to a pretty good #2 CB.  That was a pretty shrewd 5th round pick

9.  Signing Jack Fox:  Came out of nowhere and has been better than Sam Martin.  Looks like he may be around for a long time.

10.  Signing Adrian Peterson:  He may be 35 but he has given our running game a real boost even though we are doing a running back-by-committee

11. Trading for Duron Harmon:  I thought it was a "Patricia's Guy" move but he as been real difference maker.  If our pass-rush improves he is going to be even more dangerous

 

Its easy to bash Patricia and Quin but they have gotten some stuff right.  Lets hope its not too little-too late.  Thoughts?

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BQ has done a pretty good job of drafting, especially from the middle to late rounds.  The new coaches are doing well, but I do wonder if MP would have kept his other coaches around if last season wasn't so abysmal. Was this to pacify the fans? Who knows.This off-season makes it very difficult to evaluate anything for rookies.  I was super high on JK Dobbins, but right now Swift looks like he is the better back. I still believe Okudah will be a stud.  If he had a pass rush, I think he would look even better.

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The Highest Graded Run Blocking Teams in the NFL in 2020:

1. Detroit Lions - 80.3

2. Cleveland Browns - 79.4

3. Green Bay Packers - 77.0

4. Seattle Seahawks - 75.3

They are led by C Ragnow (No. 2 RB Grade among Cs) and LT Decker (No. 6 RB Grade among LTs)

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13 minutes ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

The Highest Graded Run Blocking Teams in the NFL in 2020:

1. Detroit Lions - 80.3

2. Cleveland Browns - 79.4

3. Green Bay Packers - 77.0

4. Seattle Seahawks - 75.3

They are led by C Ragnow (No. 2 RB Grade among Cs) and LT Decker (No. 6 RB Grade among LTs)

That's awesome.

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2 hours ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

The Highest Graded Run Blocking Teams in the NFL in 2020:

1. Detroit Lions - 80.3

2. Cleveland Browns - 79.4

3. Green Bay Packers - 77.0

4. Seattle Seahawks - 75.3

They are led by C Ragnow (No. 2 RB Grade among Cs) and LT Decker (No. 6 RB Grade among LTs)

Can someone explain how the best run blocking team, can’t run the ball effectively. The exception being Swifts performance against the Jaguars.

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12 minutes ago, diehardlionfan said:

Can someone explain how the best run blocking team, can’t run the ball effectively. The exception being Swifts performance against the Jaguars.

This is my thoughts as well.  Perhaps its just the RBs being awful but it doesn't seem like they have consistently had room to run.  The O line gets graded on if they cover their assignment per PFF, so if there is a really good defensive play (well timed blitz, more defenders than blockers in an area) or a bad play by the RB, the line would still grade well I think.  Its the only thing that would make sense based on our running numbers. 

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1 hour ago, Sllim Pickens said:

This is my thoughts as well.  Perhaps its just the RBs being awful but it doesn't seem like they have consistently had room to run.  The O line gets graded on if they cover their assignment per PFF, so if there is a really good defensive play (well timed blitz, more defenders than blockers in an area) or a bad play by the RB, the line would still grade well I think.  Its the only thing that would make sense based on our running numbers. 

Does that then come back to coaching/scheme?

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11 hours ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

Does that then come back to coaching/scheme?

I think so. When you posted those numbers that is immediately my thought.

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12 hours ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

Does that then come back to coaching/scheme?

Seems to be the case.  Here are our current rankings:

Rush attempts per game - 16th (27.6)
Yards per game - 15th (117.4)
Yards per attempt - 16th (4.3)
 

So if we have the best run blocking line I would expect us to run more, I would expect our yards per carry to be higher.  So to have a line that is doing what it is told and still not effectively moving the ball I would have to lean towards scheme/play calling.  

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38 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said:

Seems to be the case.  Here are our current rankings:

Rush attempts per game - 16th (27.6)
Yards per game - 15th (117.4)
Yards per attempt - 16th (4.3)
 

So if we have the best run blocking line I would expect us to run more, I would expect our yards per carry to be higher.  So to have a line that is doing what it is told and still not effectively moving the ball I would have to lean towards scheme/play calling.  

I asked because it just doesn’t make sense. This, to me, is an example of how analytics and stats paint a false picture. When I watch AD run he churns out yards based on his running style and strength more often than not.

If our line is so effective the Lions should be able to run the ball down the oppositions throat.

Do you remember years back when the broncos had a line that could create holes for anyone? 

The Lions clearly don’t have that type of success, yet. I’m just thinking out loud now.🤠 We may have witnessed everyone figuring it out last game and putting it together although given the Jags injuries I suspect that was the more likely boost to the running game.

Sometimes the stats and analytics just don’t pass the eyeball test.

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31 minutes ago, diehardlionfan said:

I asked because it just doesn’t make sense. This, to me, is an example of how analytics and stats paint a false picture. When I watch AD run he churns out yards based on his running style and strength more often than not.

If our line is so effective the Lions should be able to run the ball down the oppositions throat.

Do you remember years back when the broncos had a line that could create holes for anyone? 

The Lions clearly don’t have that type of success, yet. I’m just thinking out loud now.🤠 We may have witnessed everyone figuring it out last game and putting it together although given the Jags injuries I suspect that was the more likely boost to the running game.

Sometimes the stats and analytics just don’t pass the eyeball test.

To be fair, PFF doesn't know the play, but they have a lot of football knowledge reviewing plays so as they have said, it usually can be figured out what a player is supposed to be doing.  If they can't figure it out, they don't grade.  So if there is a blown block but they are unsure who blew that block, they just don't grade that play which hurts those doing their job but helps those not doing their job.  Again, these are coaches who have a better understanding and watch enough tape to know coach tendencies. I do trust their ability to review the plays, but also am trusting the vision of our RBs is not great and/or the play design is not great given you can have a bunch of individual wins along the line and still not succeed as a whole.  

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2 hours ago, diehardlionfan said:

I asked because it just doesn’t make sense. This, to me, is an example of how analytics and stats paint a false picture. When I watch AD run he churns out yards based on his running style and strength more often than not.

If our line is so effective the Lions should be able to run the ball down the oppositions throat.

Do you remember years back when the broncos had a line that could create holes for anyone? 

The Lions clearly don’t have that type of success, yet. I’m just thinking out loud now.🤠 We may have witnessed everyone figuring it out last game and putting it together although given the Jags injuries I suspect that was the more likely boost to the running game.

Sometimes the stats and analytics just don’t pass the eyeball test.

I think you also have to look at the rb's rating as well.  Just because they have the highest score, doesn't mean we have a fantastic running game. That is not what the data is saying.  The false picture is not the stats, but in how it is being interpreted. Now, I have no idea what a good number would be, but a score of 80, although the best in the league apparently, doesn't scream they should be on the Broncos level either. Also,  I would think if you have a couple of guys who are really high, and a guy who is really low, that could effect it as well (now I'm thinking out loud here as well).

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The stats show that having the best Run Blocking OL doesn’t mean you will have a successful running game. We have this false idea that if we successfully build the trenches, we’ll be a successful team. PFF grades AP as the worst RB in the league out of everyone that qualifies. That tells me that the OL is doing their job but AP is lacking the patience and not hitting the right holes at the right time. Why does Swift go untouched until way past the LoS but AP has to muscle his way for a three yard gain? The last two weeks, the run to pass ratio with AP in the game isn’t much different than when Swift is in, so I’m not buying the “predictability” excuse. 

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32 minutes ago, HashtagFTW said:

The stats show that having the best Run Blocking OL doesn’t mean you will have a successful running game. We have this false idea that if we successfully build the trenches, we’ll be a successful team. PFF grades AP as the worst RB in the league out of everyone that qualifies. That tells me that the OL is doing their job but AP is lacking the patience and not hitting the right holes at the right time. Why does Swift go untouched until way past the LoS but AP has to muscle his way for a three yard gain? The last two weeks, the run to pass ratio with AP in the game isn’t much different than when Swift is in, so I’m not buying the “predictability” excuse. 

Can you expound on this, as I am interested in your thoughts?

I am of the belief if you build the trenches on a team it definitely gives you an opportunity to be better than if you don't do this.  I understand you still have other positions that make up a team and will help with winning, but not winning in the trenches, I believe, is a recipe to make it much harder to win than if you do. I'd rather build up my ol and dl than my wr, cb groups.

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2 hours ago, LionArkie said:

Can you expound on this, as I am interested in your thoughts?

I am of the belief if you build the trenches on a team it definitely gives you an opportunity to be better than if you don't do this.  I understand you still have other positions that make up a team and will help with winning, but not winning in the trenches, I believe, is a recipe to make it much harder to win than if you do. I'd rather build up my ol and dl than my wr, cb groups.

Someone on FF a year ago put together some data comparing two defenses (one was the chiefs and I think the other was the Patriots). The data showed that teams with elite secondaries and bad DL’s perform far better overall than teams with elite pass rush and poor secondaries. Patriots had an elite secondary and was among the leagues worst in QB pressures whereas the Chiefs were elite in QB pressures and sacks but had a terrible secondary. That year, the Patriots had the number one overall defense whereas the Chiefs finished 16th even though they were first in qb pressure and sacks and Patriots were second to last in pressures and sacks. There was also data backing this up as more consistent then we all thought it would be using other examples. 
 

Point is, I’m not saying that one is more important than the other. However, I think the ancient way of thinking might not be as right or accurate as we all thought. Bad running game does not mean bad OL. Bad secondary doesn’t mean bad DL. Good OL doesn’t mean good offense. Good DL doesn’t mean good defense. 

Edited by HashtagFTW
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