Boston Celtics Thread

[resilient part 2]

3 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

He's coming off a 13/4/1 season with a TS% of .547.  There were 72 players last year that posted that line with at least a .540 TS%.  His VORP was 0.0.  Now, why I don't view VORP as the end-all, be-all to an argument by any means.  That should illustrate to you that Brown isn't anything special.  But the second he signed that extension, his value plummeted drastically.

if stats is what you go by then that's on you. I know for a fact that players can excel or decline based on situations and opportunity. Everyone knows last years team was a total mess early on. If Brown doesn't significantly improve this year THEN your point becomes valid. But even a blind can can see how much better of an opportunity will be this year compared to last year.

[DoleINGout]

1 minute ago, resilient part 2 said:

if stats is what you go by then that's on you. I know for a fact that players can excel or decline based on situations and opportunity. Everyone knows last years team was a total mess early on. If Brown doesn't significantly improve this year THEN your point becomes valid. But even a blind can can see how much better of an opportunity will be this year compared to last year.

And plus, like, Brown is better than last year already...

[MookieMonstah]

9 hours ago, CWood21 said:

You can't just move the goalposts to fit your argument.  Even if you think his numbers were affected by the mess that was the C's, that doesn't change the fact that JJJ is 3 years younger and more importantly has 2 more years of team control.  JJJ is exponentially more valuable than Jaylen Brown.  I honestly can't see how anyone can argue otherwise.  And given how barren the FA class appears to be next year, I can't wait to see some team with significant amount of cap space to throw a ton of money at Jaylen Brown.  And Ainge is always in the asset-collecting mode that he missed a perfect opportunity to deal Brown for a better win-now piece.  Unfortunately, they're now stuck with the Brown/Tatum/Kemba trio.

Celtics have said that Jaylen Brown for Kawhi deal was untrue, but keep regurgitating it.

[CWood21]

Just now, MookieMonstah said:

Celtics have said that Jaylen Brown for Kawhi deal was untrue, but keep regurgitating it.

I didn't even mention Kawhi Leonard, but I'm not sure how much I'm actually going to believe Danny Ainge.  I mean, Paul George was out there wasn't he?  Are you telling me that you'd rather have had Oladipo and Sabonis instead?

[CWood21]

3 minutes ago, resilient part 2 said:

if stats is what you go by then that's on you. I know for a fact that players can excel or decline based on situations and opportunity. Everyone knows last years team was a total mess early on. If Brown doesn't significantly improve this year THEN your point becomes valid. But even a blind can can see how much better of an opportunity will be this year compared to last year.

No, I'm calling out the pure BS that is this entirety of this argument.  You can't choose to neglect certain numbers because it doesn't fit your argument.  He was bad last year.  Nobody is throwing him out of the picture, but you're unwilling to universally apply that logic.

[resilient part 2]

1 minute ago, CWood21 said:

No, I'm calling out the pure BS that is this entirety of this argument.  You can't choose to neglect certain numbers because it doesn't fit your argument.  He was bad last year.  Nobody is throwing him out of the picture, but you're unwilling to universally apply that logic.

There is a difference between saying Brown "was bad" and Brown (at age 22/3) can't be good because he "was bad" last year. It has no barring on how good/great or bad he will be this year IMO. 

[CWood21]

1 minute ago, resilient part 2 said:

There is a difference between saying Brown "was bad" and Brown (at age 22/3) can't be good because he "was bad" last year. It has no barring on how good/great or bad he will be this year IMO. 

And if he makes that jump that he was supposed to make this past season, maybe we can discuss that extension he was handed as a reasonable deal.  But that's based purely on projection with very little to support that.  He's a nice player, but the notion that he's even a #2 on a championship-caliber team is a stretch.

[resilient part 2]

1 minute ago, CWood21 said:

And if he makes that jump that he was supposed to make this past season, maybe we can discuss that extension he was handed as a reasonable deal.  But that's based purely on projection with very little to support that.  He's a nice player, but the notion that he's even a #2 on a championship-caliber team is a stretch.

3 words:

WE WILL SEE !

[MookieMonstah]

8 hours ago, CWood21 said:

I didn't even mention Kawhi Leonard, but I'm not sure how much I'm actually going to believe Danny Ainge.  I mean, Paul George was out there wasn't he?  Are you telling me that you'd rather have had Oladipo and Sabonis instead?

I mean the Pacers obviously loved Oladipo, and were obviously correct on that so it doesn't really matter what I think? Pacers loved that package.

[CWood21]

5 hours ago, MookieMonstah said:

I mean the Pacers obviously loved Oladipo, and were obviously correct on that so it doesn't really matter what I think? Pacers loved that package.

Oladipo was viewed as a bad contract.  Remember some of the offers being rumored?  It was bunch of poo-poo platter offers because Paul George was hellbent on going to the Lakers.

[MookieMonstah]

1 hour ago, CWood21 said:

Oladipo was viewed as a bad contract.  Remember some of the offers being rumored?  It was bunch of poo-poo platter offers because Paul George was hellbent on going to the Lakers.

Yep, probably a big reason Danny didn't end up making a deal. Danny doesn't horde assets, I've misproved this to you multiple times and you keep saying it. He's just not going to gut the team for guys like PG/AD who say they aren't going to sign an extension. It'd be stupid to do that. You'd be the same guy mocking Danny if he made a deal for PG and he walked to LA soooooo.

[Troy Brown]

On 10/21/2019 at 7:52 PM, CWood21 said:

He's coming off a 13/4/1 season with a TS% of .547.  There were 72 players last year that posted that line with at least a .540 TS%.  His VORP was 0.0.  Now, why I don't view VORP as the end-all, be-all to an argument by any means.  That should illustrate to you that Brown isn't anything special.  But the second he signed that extension, his value plummeted drastically.

good thing the celtics aren't looking for him to be valued outside of their organization 

[MookieMonstah]

On 10/21/2019 at 10:52 PM, CWood21 said:

He's coming off a 13/4/1 season with a TS% of .547.  There were 72 players last year that posted that line with at least a .540 TS%.  His VORP was 0.0.  Now, why I don't view VORP as the end-all, be-all to an argument by any means.  That should illustrate to you that Brown isn't anything special.  But the second he signed that extension, his value plummeted drastically.

I'd say after that extension its clear the Celtics aren't looking to trade him, so I don't think they really care what his perceived "value" is. 

[Deadpulse]

I do think someone would've given Jaylen more in the off-season

[resilient part 2]

11 minutes ago, Deadpulse said:

I do think someone would've given Jaylen more in the off-season

definitely. too many teams need to over-pay just to bring in a FA.