Rams vs Bears GT, 10/26, MNF

[dll2000]

Bears Twitter are all like we need to find money for Dak to save team.

Go ahead and pay Dak 40 mil/year and see what happens to team.   See you 10 years later when we can start to rebuild again.   

[The_Romen]

6 hours ago, Sugashane said:

This is what I've been saying since 2019. He isn't a good EDGE, but he can set an edge, play zone coverage, and for an ILB he would be a plus passrusher. DT has been better than at the beginning of the season but is still playing poorly overall IMO.

Yeah and he's a long dude. Even if he mistimes something, he's so lengthy that he has a wider window to disrupt something.

I think it's DHC that has like crazy long arms or something. Always wanted him to see more playing time just due to that fact. Didn't need to spend mid round picks on DBs. Denmark too, for that matter.

DT has been average as of late. Good for him.

[vegas492]

2 hours ago, dll2000 said:

Floyd was an ILB at Georgia.   He should have been drafted as an ILB in 3rd by whoever.   Drafting him as a converted edge was one of dumbest moves of Pace career.

Some scouts were in love with idea of him converting to outside and media hyped it up.  He went from 2nd rounder to high first on talk and projection and not tape.  

A lot of us were saying it during the draft live on here.  It was an awful pick.  I was pounding table for Bears taking Tunsil, Stanley or Conklin.  I took Conklin in my Forum GM draft for Bears.    Stanley and Conklin were off board IRL, but Tunsil was sitting there.   We didn’t have to give up a 4th.   Another year of a good tackle class and we passed.

2018 I am pounding table for Orlando Brown who plummeting down draft boards because of a bad combine workout.   What a bargain.  He should have been a first round pick.   He never missed a block in college.  I watched like 8 games.  Zero missed blocks.  He had a dad who played forever in league at a high level who people also short changed.  Hello.    Again pass.  Infuriating.  I can go on and on with OTs being passed on in 1st 4 rounds.     

Oh and Baltimore takes a good TE after Orlando Brown.  Unbelievable.   Bears best move would be to pay Ozzie a fortune to come out of retirement and run their team.  

I don’t know about moving Floyd back to ILB given Bears had already spent on Trevathan and Smith and he never got NFL adjustment time at that position.

Don’t get excited about his game against Bears, he still is who he has always been.  Average to below average edge player who sets edge well and provides some length in zone drops.   Quinn is way better or can be if healthy.   Or 2019 Quinn is anyway.   You never know how a guy is going to play just after a contract year.   A lot of times they are traveling and what not and not working out or hungry in that season like they were in the contract year.  

 

Nice. Rant!  Regarding Floyd...

Was there ever a Packers/Bears game that he didn't record a sack?  Seemed like he was always a pest for GB to play against.

 

[vegas492]

2 hours ago, dll2000 said:

Another rant.   

People here and in media on and on about play calling.  Play calling.  Play calling.   You aren’t seeing forest for trees or however saying goes.

Play calling is not a major issue.  It never is.   

I have called plays in like 9 different seasons for middle school teams.  It isn’t nothing, but it isn’t main thing you worry about.  

They aren’t executing plays.   If you have good precision execution of your play book, the equipment manager can call plays.   The QB can call plays.   The center can call plays.  It doesn’t matter all that much.   It is way overrated.

They either work or they don’t.   There is no annexation of Puerto Rico - okay a trick play can get you a quick score - but bulk of plays are your base plays. 

One sets up other.   Jab, jab, hook.    If you can’t jab or hook, either or, you are screwed.  Plain and simple.   Changing play callers doesn’t change that.

Magic happens in off season and in practice.   John Wooden didn’t even call plays in games.  He said games were his players final exams.  He did everything in practice.

You think Lombardi was all like crap what should we do here?  No, he was going to run power sweep, power sweep, counter and play action.   The cheereleaders could have done same. 

Football is still blocking and tackling, passing and catching.   Who is best at using their allotted practice time to make their machine precision.   Nagy has not been good at that.   He is classic run plays and mild scrimmage with little teaching all practice coach.  

They never win at any level unless they have overwhelming talent.  

 

 

 

As someone who has called plays from under center....

You are right.  Plays don't matter all that much.  It matters that you set up your plays correctly.  Every play should reveal a "tell" about the defense.

Keeping track of the tells is the tough part.  Down/distance/field position/defensive look.  Those are all highly important.  And that is why there are so many coaches on the sideline to help determine those tells.

In regards to the Bears offense...I do feel that plays matter a little more.  Some way, some how, Nagy needs to scheme some very easy completions to get his QB and offense into a rhythm.  

I didn't really see that the other night.  Rollouts, bootlegs....etc.  Easy misdirection plays with layers of receivers to be found.  Crossers.  RPO's with a quick slant option if the corner is playing way off.  I just didn't see many of these at all.

My mail fault for the Rams game was just that.  It didn't look to me like Nagy had any real progression to those plays, and he certainly never found an offensive rhythm.

[HuskieBear]

11 hours ago, JAF-N72EX said:

Yeah it was. Because damn near everyone on here was so quick to jettison him and I kept saying that he did more for this defense than he was being given credit for. Things that don't show up on a standard stat sheet. But because he wasn't a 8-10 sack guy.....he was labeled a bust and easily replaceable.

Meanwhile, I didn't see any player available who could realistically replace him.  I liked the Quinn signing (which nobody thought was available) but Quinn hasn't been able to stay healthy and is costing us 6.1M this year. Floyd has always been healthy and is only costing the Rams 6.6M and he's 2 years younger.

When Floyd was here; he got pressure on the QB at a high rate, he was a solid tackler,  he was good against the run, he maintained his edge assignments, and he had the speed to keep up with RB/TE/WR coming into the flat on his side of the field. These are aspects that we could really use right now.

 

This is mostly just not true

There might have been some people that said he was a bust, but he definitely wasn't - he was generally a very good OLB at everything but sacking the quarterback. he was really strong against the run and above average in coverage. he could apply pressure to QBs and was often in the upper parts of the league in hurries, he just didn't have the strength or pass rush moves to get home.

In addition, your statement "quinn hasn't been able to stay healthy....floyd has always been healthy" is just wrong. Quinn missed one game, week one, and has been active since then. Floyd only played 12 games his rookie year and 10 his second season. why? because of injuries. additionally, floyd is only "costing" the rams 6.6 in cap space this year, but he signed a 1 year/10M contract, so he will count an additional 3.4 on NEXT years cap, even if he doesn't resign there.

yes, floyd is younger than quinn, but quinn has 50 more sacks in his career than floyd, and that's what quinn was signed here to do, sack the quarterback. you can be upset that he isn't accomplishing that based on what we are paying him, but you can't sit here and say that after what we say in 4 years of floyd we would be seeing it from him.

[dll2000]

1 hour ago, vegas492 said:

As someone who has called plays from under center....

You are right.  Plays don't matter all that much.  It matters that you set up your plays correctly.  Every play should reveal a "tell" about the defense.

Keeping track of the tells is the tough part.  Down/distance/field position/defensive look.  Those are all highly important.  And that is why there are so many coaches on the sideline to help determine those tells.

In regards to the Bears offense...I do feel that plays matter a little more.  Some way, some how, Nagy needs to scheme some very easy completions to get his QB and offense into a rhythm.  

I didn't really see that the other night.  Rollouts, bootlegs....etc.  Easy misdirection plays with layers of receivers to be found.  Crossers.  RPO's with a quick slant option if the corner is playing way off.  I just didn't see many of these at all.

My mail fault for the Rams game was just that.  It didn't look to me like Nagy had any real progression to those plays, and he certainly never found an offensive rhythm.

Lou Holtz spoke one time about this.  As a play caller you are breaking game down into 10 yard increments.   You get 3 tries to get 10 yards.  If you lack explosive playmakers you have to stay on schedule.   

Bears lack of ability to get 4 yards in run game always puts them behind schedule on 2 of 3 downs so QB has to make a heroic play under duress.

Nagy has stubbornly stayed in single back spread looks and tried to run ball and DCs refuse to let him do it.    He changed at beginning of year, but as soon as Foles went to QB he went right back to his hold scheme.

You don't have to run the ball.   There are other ways to get yards.  Brady and Pats carved teams with short passing and Bill Walsh made it famous in 80s.  But you have to accumulate yards and move chains.   

But what Nagy is doing isn't working and hasn't been working so doing it more makes no sense.   Change or die.   Just watched Money Ball and that was motto of Brad Pitt character.  I don't think movie was historically accurate, but it does raise some good points.   Trying to out Alabama at McNeese St. makes no sense.   You have to think outside box sometimes to be competitive.  I digress.   

That was problem with Packers in recent years, prior to this season.   Rodgers, like Marino before him, would waste downs trying to make the big play.   Thus giving other team extra possessions.    Somehow he has been talked out of doing that and you are reaping the benefits of it this season.

When I coached we would sometimes practice scrimmage other teams.  And way it usually worked was they ran 10-15 offensive plays regardless of what happened and then we would.

On a lot of those sequences the team would score.   Because they don't have to worry about downs.  They just get to run their plays 15x in a row.   In a scrimmage they would score on us multiple times.  Then sometimes we would later play that team for real in playoffs or whatever and we would shut them out.   They would always be shocked.   Its a whole different world with downs and game planning.

I don't ever try to win a practice.  It's not about ego.   I just want to accomplish a goal or get better at something.  

Putting together an offense is like putting on a play.  It is a lot of drudgery over and over and over for one big performance.  Trying to have a perfect scene in a reherseal is stupid.    You have to break it down into small components.   And it can be boring.    Why kids and parents hate O line play.    Because practices can be brutally boring - though that can illeviated with creative drills.   But you still have to do the grunt boring work to perfect fundamentals.   And it never ends.    You see Leno playing with worse fundamentals than he did 5 years ago.   Daniels came into league with fantastic fundamentals out of Iowa and then regressed after a year with Bears.     

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[dll2000]

I would have seriously hired core of Iowa coaching staff and Ozzie Newsome to GM/President if I ran the Bears long ago.   I would probably learn under Ozzie and take over GM myself when he retired.  

And I would leave coaches in place for decades not 4 year increments while training and advancing coaches in our way of doing things from within rather switching everything every 4 years and starting over.   

I would have my own secret  'practice squads' set up where I developed players and when they were ready I would sign them to my roster.  

I would use that to transition DL to OL and Basketball/Baseball players not good enough for NBA/MLB to football and foreign athletes - primarily big men from E. Europe and Scandavian countries and speed from Islands.    I'd also develop a pipeline of QBs.  

Logistics of keeping other teams from poaching my work would have to be worked out and brainstormed.  

 

[topwop1]

4 hours ago, dll2000 said:

Bears Twitter are all like we need to find money for Dak to save team.

Go ahead and pay Dak 40 mil/year and see what happens to team.   See you 10 years later when we can start to rebuild again.   

I genuinely like Dak but he ain't gonna save **** for this franchise

[JAF-N72EX]

11 hours ago, HuskieBear said:

This is mostly just not true

There might have been some people that said he was a bust, but he definitely wasn't -

It is true. Unless you've been living under a rock, almost every Bears fans were calling him a bust. They were so quick to point the blame to him after every game and were so quick get rid of him just because "he didn't get sacks" while ignoring the other aspects of the game.  Go back and read it for yourself if you'd like. 

 

11 hours ago, HuskieBear said:

In addition, your statement "quinn hasn't been able to stay healthy....floyd has always been healthy" is just wrong. 

Oh Jesus Christ. I forgot that too many people nowadays are so damn overly literal. Thanks social media. 

It's not wrong.

I don't give a damn about what Floyd missed 3 years ago. It's 2020, not 2017. Floyd hasn't missed a single game in the last 2 and half years and has played in 40 straight games (including the playoffs) without an injury (with the exception of Bills game (?) in 2nd Q after being concussed---protocol BS). 

Floyd hasn't missed a game and has played atleast 87% of the snaps in each game this year. He's been reliable. Same as the last 2 years as a Bear. Clearly, injuries are not a concern with Floyd.  

Quinn has only played in over 50% of the snaps ONE time this year. ONCE. Per PFR, he missed game 1, then only played 38%, 47%, 44%, 58%, 44%, and 43% in the last 6 games. Clearly there are lingering issues and he isn't healthy. 

 

11 hours ago, HuskieBear said:

additionally, floyd is only "costing" the rams 6.6 in cap space this year, but he signed a 1 year/10M contract, so he will count an additional 3.4 on NEXT years cap, even if he doesn't resign there.

Wrong. 

The Rams signed him to a 1 yr deal but then placed a 2 year void on Floyd's contract making that 3/yr 10M deal with 5M upfront and 5M in bonuses. And because of the void, that 5M in bonus is spread out among the 3 years (1.66M each).  Pace uses this same cap circumvention alot (Trevathan, Fuller, Leno). 

Floyd's cap hits are 6.6 this year, 3.3 next year, and 1.6 in 2022.  And that was in the open market! That's a steal.

Hell, the Rams can even release him after this year and it would only costing them the extended 1.66M that he was set to make in both 2021 and 2022 -- 3.3M. Then they have the option to extend him at any time by his 3rd year or released him with a minimal hit (1.66M). 

Meanwhile, Quinn got 27M upfront (not including bonuses) and his cap hits are 6.1 this year, 14.7 next year, 16 in 2022, and 17.1 in 2023 -- with no positive outs until 2023 when he's 33 years old, and even that will only save a measly 4.7M. 

 

 

11 hours ago, HuskieBear said:

yes, floyd is younger than quinn, but quinn has 50 more sacks in his career than floyd,

I don't care what a player did 10 years ago. What Quinn did back in 2011 does not help us in 2020. Hell, I don't care what a player did 1 year ago if they can't stay healthy. There's alot to be said about availability. Potential means absolutely nothing if you aren't able to play. 

 

11 hours ago, HuskieBear said:

and that's what quinn was signed here to do, sack the quarterback.

And he hasn't done that, has he?  But yet Floyd was vilified for it.  The difference between them two is that atleast Floyd was able to still contribute in other areas whereas Quinn is sitting on the sidelines collecting a huge paycheck but I haven't heard the same complaints about him. That's my point. 

 

11 hours ago, HuskieBear said:

you can be upset that he isn't accomplishing that based on what we are paying him, but you can't sit here and say that after what we say in 4 years of floyd we would be seeing it from him.

Yes, I can say that. Our defense has proven that we don't need another 8-10 sack guy just as long as Hicks and Mack are healthy.

We had one of the best defenses in history without the sacks from Floyd. We don't/didn't need to be seeing Floyd getting 10 sacks a season just as long as he's doing everything else right on the field that matters, and he did that. He may not finish plays, but his versatility and ability to effect each and every other aspect of the game makes him valuable and now we're seeing that.  

What we need are guys who can stay healthy, are good at the fundamentals (not getting penalized, taking good angles, good tackling), stay in their zones, trusting others to do their jobs, and can read and react to quick strike offenses -- especially with this secondary and TEs/RBs coming out of the backfield or into their zones in pass coverage.  We had that with Floyd and are missing some of those aspects this year.  

It seems like people look at the players position label and go "oh, he's an EDGE rusher in a 3-4 so unless he gets 8-10 sacks every year, or whatever, then he's useless"  without understanding that playing EDGE requires alot more than just rushing the passer. 

Edited October 29, 2020 by JAF-N72EX

[vegas492]

On 10/28/2020 at 11:36 AM, dll2000 said:

 

That was problem with Packers in recent years, prior to this season.   Rodgers, like Marino before him, would waste downs trying to make the big play.   Thus giving other team extra possessions.    Somehow he has been talked out of doing that and you are reaping the benefits of it this season.

 

Man, there was a lot there, just going to cover what I know....the above statement.

"Touchdown to checkdown".  That was the progression of reads for many years.

"All gas, no brake".  Another motto.

And?  It worked great when you have Driver, Jennings, Jones, Nelson, Cobb and Adams, in some mix, running routes downfield.  Add to that the great vision and feet of a young Rodgers and it worked.  At that time in everyone's career, that was the right move.

Then Driver retired...fine.  Jennings left.  Fine.  Jones left.  Fine.  Vintage Nelson, Cobb and a young 'Vante were fine.

Then it happened.  Nelson and Cobb got old at the same time.  Not in years, in play speed.  And we struggled.  There was not and still is not anyone on the roster at WR that has the ability to be as good as those guys that left.

Last year, MLF ran a hybrid offense.  Little bit of Mac stuff, little bit of his stuff.  And GB won 13 regular season games.  Weren't all pretty, but still they won.

This year, our coach got rid of the Mac stuff and installed more of his true offense.  And somehow Rodgers has bought into it.  And it is great to see.

My main fear about new head coach is that he'd be like yours.  Looks like a genius for one year, then fails to advance his offense.  Luckily that has not happened, at least not yet.

Continued best of luck and best of health to your team!  Personally, I hope I get to see the Bears/Saints game.  I think you are going to stifle Brees.  

[vegas492]

14 hours ago, JAF-N72EX said:

 

Just wanted to state this...that post was pure poetry.

And I loved the contract breakdown for Floyd.

 

[blkwdw13]

2 hours ago, vegas492 said:

 

My main fear about new head coach is that he'd be like yours.  Looks like a genius for one year, then fails to advance his offense.  Luckily that has not happened, at least not yet.

This is how I am with every new coach that has success, give it at least another year to see how other teams adjust and then also see how that coach counters those adjustments. Nagy hasn’t and so Lafleur has. 

[BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW]

I'm making my pick, but I feel like this is the week I finally get wrong... Bears 17 Saints 14 

 

 

Edited October 30, 2020 by RunningVaccs
immediate regret

[dll2000]

On 10/28/2020 at 7:59 AM, dll2000 said:

Another rant.   

People here and in media on and on about play calling.  Play calling.  Play calling.   You aren’t seeing forest for trees or however saying goes.

Play calling is not a major issue.  It never is.   

I have called plays in like 9 different seasons for middle school teams.  It isn’t nothing, but it isn’t main thing you worry about.  

They aren’t executing plays.   If you have good precision execution of your play book, the equipment manager can call plays.   The QB can call plays.   The center can call plays.  It doesn’t matter all that much.   It is way overrated.

They either work or they don’t.   There is no annexation of Puerto Rico - okay a trick play can get you a quick score - but bulk of plays are your base plays. 

One sets up other.   Jab, jab, hook.    If you can’t jab or hook, either or, you are screwed.  Plain and simple.   Changing play callers doesn’t change that.

Magic happens in off season and in practice.   John Wooden didn’t even call plays in games.  He said games were his players final exams.  He did everything in practice.

You think Lombardi was all like crap what should we do here?  No, he was going to run power sweep, power sweep, counter and play action.   The cheereleaders could have done same. 

Football is still blocking and tackling, passing and catching.   Who is best at using their allotted practice time to make their machine precision.   Nagy has not been good at that.   He is classic run plays and mild scrimmage with little teaching all practice coach.  

They never win at any level unless they have overwhelming talent.  

 

 

 

Bears media is always a few weeks behind me.  After two solid weeks of non stop “Change play caller” they will now begin to change tune and recognize real issue is poor execution. 

Poor execution is 100% on Nagy however.  

[Sugashane]

1 hour ago, dll2000 said:

Bears media is always a few weeks behind me.  After two solid weeks of non stop “Change play caller” they will now begin to change tune and recognize real issue is poor execution. 

Poor execution is 100% on Nagy however.  

It seems obvious, he and Pace haven't fielded a talented offense but these are still professionals. How is it that Schmitz seems to put Nagy as faultless in the laughable execution? I mean even on screens, something that is run with regularity at even the lowest levels of high school, we routinely can't get blockers to even let our guys get back to the LOS without struggling mightily? If you can't even get a vanilla screen to work how are you expected to be able to run leverage reads, option plays where your QB throws the WR open, etc?