Karnage84 Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 25 minutes ago, diehardlionfan said: PFF’s grades don’t pass the eyeball test. Flowers simply isn’t the number 3 DE in the league and Collins as a top 10 LB is a joke. According to PFF we also have the best run blocking oline. I’m straying off topic but Peterson being our number 1 back speaks more to Quinn’s ineffective drafting than a reasonable contract. Something negative is always going to be there if you look hard enough. While PFF isn't the end all, be all they do have a formula, watch every single snap multiple times and are employed in some capacity by all 32 NFL teams. Just because you don't want something positive about the Lions (en-route to a Quinn and Patricia firing) doesn't mean that it isn't true. Being the #1 run blocking team isn't a lock for us to win games but it's at least a step in the right direction being the best in a positive category. Peterson started as our RB1 and it is shifting more towards Swift as he gets acclimated to the league without much of an off-season, no pre-season, etc. So when our #35 pick becomes a top RB in the league, was he a good pick by Quinn? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karnage84 Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 14 hours ago, BigC421/ said: Ok well first off where pff has anyone ranked is completely irrelevant, they put in work that for sure but they haven’t a clue what there actually doing. Flowers is far from a top 5 edge player. I don’t really care how often u slightly get the better of a 1 on 1 matchup. If it’s a day late and a dollar short in regards to even creating pressure let alone making a play. Amendolla is not a good contract or signing it just IS , not terrible but not much gained either. He’s not overly cheap either. Collins is not good, pff is wrong. More importantly with Flowers is that he out bid himself. Save me the you don’t know how teams value him. No one in the league was offering him more than 15 tops. Same goes for Collins....3 years 30 mil? Who else was giving this guy a deal for more than a year or 2 at 4-6 ? For those who can’t follow along my opinion of Bob Quinn is he’s terrible. He’s FA signings have been trash. He’s drafts have been trash. Passing on Tua for a cb , Hockenson at 7, Davis in the 1st, Teez, Tavia and 2 rb’s in the second. He’s used a 1st, 2nd and a 10mil a year contract on 3 linebackers and the unit is amongst the leagues worst. No real hits in latter rounds outside Golladay and that was the 3rd. Decker and Ragnow were solid later 1st rd picks but they pretty much met there draft spot without much else While Bob Quinn isn't going to the HOF anytime soon, I don't think that we're watching the same team. He has had his bad picks (like Tabor) but he generally has done better in the draft overall than bad. It's up to the coaches to develop the players and squeeze out the talent from guys in the lower rounds. Patricia was his choice as HC and as a result they are likely tied together, but I put more emphasis on the issues at hand on Patricia than I do on Quinn. Even if it's a 55/45 or 60/40 split. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sllim Pickens Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 53 minutes ago, Karnage84 said: While Bob Quinn isn't going to the HOF anytime soon, I don't think that we're watching the same team. He has had his bad picks (like Tabor) but he generally has done better in the draft overall than bad. It's up to the coaches to develop the players and squeeze out the talent from guys in the lower rounds. Patricia was his choice as HC and as a result they are likely tied together, but I put more emphasis on the issues at hand on Patricia than I do on Quinn. Even if it's a 55/45 or 60/40 split. I feel like this is a circular argument or the chicken and the egg thing. If it's on the coaches to squeeze it out of the later round talent, then can we chalk Golladay and AO and Jackson etc to the coaches maximizing their talent or is it because Quinn found a gem through scouting and that player was bound to be good either way? Same with the first and second round picks, is it because they don't have talent to be squeezed or is it because the coaches can't develop them. Thats why to me it is a 50/50 split on fault here. They need to work together in drafting and building a team. No GM should be drafting and signing guys without working with their coaches and although the GM has final say, if they go against their coach it likely will end in disaster. So given we don't know the relationship between the two, I put the blame on them both. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigC421/ Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, Karnage84 said: While Bob Quinn isn't going to the HOF anytime soon, I don't think that we're watching the same team. He has had his bad picks (like Tabor) but he generally has done better in the draft overall than bad. It's up to the coaches to develop the players and squeeze out the talent from guys in the lower rounds. Patricia was his choice as HC and as a result they are likely tied together, but I put more emphasis on the issues at hand on Patricia than I do on Quinn. Even if it's a 55/45 or 60/40 split. You could have just say I have no actual examples to site If you think Bob Quinn has done a good job acquiring talent than I don’t know what to tell you. As far as PFF goes there people and there formula simply don’t do a good job of properly evaluating talent. Matt Millen and Bob Quinn and B.O . B watch a lot of tape as well. Much like PFF they come up with inaccurate grades on performance. Edited October 23, 2020 by BigC421/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karnage84 Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 23 minutes ago, BigC421/ said: You could have just no I have no actual examples to site If you think Bob Quinn has done a good job acquiring talent than I don’t know what to tell you. As far as PFF goes there people and there formula simply don’t do a good job of properly evaluating talent. Matt Millen and Bob Quinn and B.O . B watch a lot of tape as well. Much like PFF they come up with inaccurate grades on performance. There are examples it's just not worth the effort with someone who has a pre-determined opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigC421/ Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 (edited) 57 minutes ago, Karnage84 said: There are examples it's just not worth the effort with someone who has a pre-determined opinion. Wow that’s a pretty cowardly approach. I know the correct answer I’m just not going to tell you right. There’s nothing pre about my opinion of this team. It’s based on the evidence I’ve seen over this season and last. If anyone’s opinion is pre determined it’s slappys like yourself who will endlessly chase your tails in circles year after year to try and dig up excuses for why this team always fails. There’s always some nonsense stat for why there not as bad as everyone thinks blah blah blah yet at the end of day this team will achieve nothing. My opinion that Jamie Collins is not worth 10 mil a year is based off his performance in both Detroit and New England. The same goes for Flowers. You said BQ free agent signing usually over perform there contract especially in year 1. I’ve looked up and down his signings and can’t find any examples of this being true. You said BQ does a good job drafting yet the results suggest otherwise. This perhaps shows that maybe you have in fact predetermined if has had good drafts or not. Edited October 23, 2020 by BigC421/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karnage84 Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 10 minutes ago, BigC421/ said: Wow that’s a pretty cowardly approach. I know the correct answer I’m just not going to tell you right. There’s nothing pre about my opinion of this team. It’s based on the evidence I’ve seen over this season and last. If anyone’s opinion is pre determined it’s slappys like yourself who will endlessly chase your tails in circles year after year to try and dig up excuses for why this team always fails. There’s always some nonsense stat for why there not as bad as everyone thinks blah blah blah yet at the end of day this team will achieve nothing. My opinion that Jamie Collins is not worth 10 mil a year is based off his performance in both Detroit and New England. The same goes for Flowers. You said BQ free agent signing usually over perform there contract especially in year 1. I’ve looked up and down his signings and can’t find any examples of this being true. You said BQ does a good job drafting yet the results suggest otherwise. This perhaps shows that maybe you have in fact predetermined if has had good drafts or not. You're welcome to your opinion and I am welcome to mine. Just because I don't want to spend time pulling out disputing facts isn't cowardly - it's just a waste of my time. I have never argued that Quinn or Patricia are doing a great job. The record in itself is proof otherwise. What I have done is argued that the duo should be given the time to fulfill their plan and see where things fall. I have also been of the belief that last years team did have the potential to go 9-7 with a healthy Stafford. It would have been a step forward from 6-10 and would have changed the narrative (to some extent). 6-10 and then 9 -7 isn't great but it is better than 6-10 and 3-13. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diehardlionfan Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 4 hours ago, Karnage84 said: Something negative is always going to be there if you look hard enough. While PFF isn't the end all, be all they do have a formula, watch every single snap multiple times and are employed in some capacity by all 32 NFL teams. Just because you don't want something positive about the Lions (en-route to a Quinn and Patricia firing) doesn't mean that it isn't true. Being the #1 run blocking team isn't a lock for us to win games but it's at least a step in the right direction being the best in a positive category. Peterson started as our RB1 and it is shifting more towards Swift as he gets acclimated to the league without much of an off-season, no pre-season, etc. So when our #35 pick becomes a top RB in the league, was he a good pick by Quinn? Stop right there. You don’t get to determine what I wish for the Lions. I’ve wished nothing but positives for this team since before you were born so quit with your assumptions about me. Its a huge leap and totally ignorant to jump from me not liking Quinn and Patricia to wishing the team to fail. It’s obvious you’re prepared to accept mediocrity from the Lions. When you have low expectations that what you get is mediocre results. I don’t care what PFF has for numbers and I don’t care who you claim uses them. Basing analysis of a teams effectiveness on PFF numbers is a huge fail. Heck if they’re so good the Lions can fire the pro scouting department. Heck they could hire PFF to run the draft. The eye test doesn’t support the numbers for any player you’ve mentioned. What about Swift? If he proves to be a top 10 RB it was a good pick. That doesn’t mean I can’t question the Lions roster building strategy. Dont get all excited about Swifts game against the Jags. Let’s see him continue the effective running against teams that aren’t totally depleted on the line. Its entirely premature to state,” when our #35 pick becomes a top RB in the league.” Let’s first HOPE he can be above average before you tell us all he’s going to become a top back. And YES, regardless of your assumptions about me and how I think and feel I want Swift to be a success. I want the Lions to win every game. Every time. See that's the problem. They don’t win, EVER. The organization is a total, absolute failure. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigC421/ Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 Of course we can agree to disagree it’s like just discussion. You have to understand how ridiculous your last 2 posts look though correct? I have the time to reply to you not once but twice to tell you it’s not worth my time. I’m not asking for a complete break down of the roster, simply name a handful of good FA signing BQ has made who have out performed there contracts. This is in your own words something BQ has done a good job of. Your post history suggests if you had a good answer you’d be all over it but fact is you don’t because there aren’t any. Your 2nd paragraph is pretty typical of some Lions slappys on here in the past. You spend endless time defending the organization post after post then come back with the lame I never said they were doing a good job I just defended them against everyone who said they suck. Sorry if I’m taking my frustrations with this piss poor franchise out on you but there terrible from top to bottom and I don’t understand how any knowledgeable involved fan wouldn’t be able to see it. Hey remember that time we played KC close. 6-10 is not the goal or an achievement Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millenhater Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 Quinnen Williams. There’s talk that he’s available. Would you do it? And what would you be willing to give up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyguy1609 Posted October 26, 2020 Share Posted October 26, 2020 Cbs sports is reporting a few Bengals want out. they point out William Jackson (CB) to the lions. reportedly it will be cheap to get him and hes only 27. maybe worth the gamble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karnage84 Posted October 26, 2020 Share Posted October 26, 2020 Just now, flyguy1609 said: Cbs sports is reporting a few Bengals want out. they point out William Jackson (CB) to the lions. reportedly it will be cheap to get him and hes only 27. maybe worth the gamble. Is that news/rumours or one of those "guys who might be traded" articles? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyguy1609 Posted October 26, 2020 Share Posted October 26, 2020 16 hours ago, Millenhater said: Quinnen Williams. There’s talk that he’s available. Would you do it? And what would you be willing to give up? the talk is the Jets want a 2nd rd pick +. but we would have him for 3+ yrs before an extension. https://www.si.com/nfl/lions/news/pros-cons-trading-for-quinnen-williams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyguy1609 Posted October 26, 2020 Share Posted October 26, 2020 Just now, Karnage84 said: Is that news/rumours or one of those "guys who might be traded" articles? yea i believe so Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karnage84 Posted October 26, 2020 Share Posted October 26, 2020 The good on WJ3: He's (relatively) young and a good player. The bad: He's a free agent after this season, so he would be a rental. If we were to cut Trufant next year, he'd count for $6M in dead cap but open up $6.5M in new cap space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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