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50 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

He was like 2nd in rushing yards after the first 5 weeks. And the Buccaneers have the best run defense in the league while we were missing two starters on our OL then lost two backups during the game. For a large majority of the game we had a 3rd string RG/RT in together. And for most of the season we've been missing 2+ starters on our OL every week. 

No one runs on the Bucs.

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10 minutes ago, y*so*blu said:

An exciting week. The Panthers might become a good team after all.

Panthers are a good team, Bridgewater looks great out there.  But some context, Saints defense has been atrocious and Saints offense didn't punt all game, going 12-14 on third down attempts.  Saint failed to score on only one drive, when Armstead got hurt and his backup immediately got destroyed for a sack/fumble.

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54 minutes ago, Bearerofnews said:

I posted this before.

Since 2017

K Allen.  337 recs 4144 yds 20 tds

M Evans. 246 recs 3953 yds 27 tds

D Hopkins. 360 recs 4643 yds 33 tds

J. Jones 315 recs 4728 yds 17 tds

M. Thomas 381 recs 4392 yds 23 tds

D. Adams 291 recs 3521 yds 30 tds

O. Beckham 197 recs 2683 yds 16 tds

A. Cooper 241 recs 3298 yds 23 tds

T. Hill 242 recs 3886 yds 30 tds

A. Robinson 189 recs 2339 yds 13 tds

Bulk stats. Let's average those out to a per-game basis and turn it into a 16 game full season:

K. Allen: 84 recs, 1036 yards, 5 tds

M. Evans: 76 recs, 1,191 yards, 9 tds

D. Hopkins: 113 recs, 1,472 yards, 10 tds

J. Jones: 100 recs, 1,502 yards, 6 tds

M. Thomas: 126 recs, 1,458 yards, 8 tds*

D. Adams: 109 recs, 1,292 yards, 11 tds

O. Beckham: 84 recs, 1,124 yards, 7 tds

A. Cooper: 84 recs, 1,094 yards, 8 tds

T. Hill: 78 recs, 1,228 yards, 10 tds

A. Robinson: 91 recs, 1,113 yards, 6 tds*

*removed one season from each due to it only being 1 game of data, decided not to add any previous seasons on, since this is just 2017 and onward.

Another note: I just went with straight averages and rounded up or down when I needed a whole number. With receptions or yardage it's not a big deal, but can make TDs seem like a bigger deal. If someone was 8.6 tds they went up to 9, whereas if they were 8.4, they went to 8. So TDs within 1 of each other could be pretty similar.

 

So, I didn't know how this would turn out, and I'm definitely not a slave to just the numbers, but I'm surprised how well this follows what my mind's eye sees on the field: Keenan is fine in all areas, but lacks the eye popping reception numbers, yardage, or TDs, whereas most of these other guys have at least one of those. This data supports my opinion that Julio and Hopkins are clearly ahead. I'm not the biggest Michael Thomas fan but you've probably gotta put him ahead too. From there I think arguments could start to be made if you want to put K.A. ahead of other guys with better numbers:

-Davante has clearly superior numbers, and there's no doubt he's good as hell, but he also has Rodgers at QB and has been the ONLY reliable receiving target over this time span. If we had KA instead of Davante, might his numbers be better than they have been in SD/LA?

-Mike Evans is a better athlete and makes acrobatic, impressive TD catches. But when I watch him play I also think he's kind of an idiot as far as football IQ. Some may prefer the headier, safer play of Allen.

-Tyreek Hill is certainly another insanely talented athlete, and is a home run hitter, but he has Mahomes. Furthermore, some may prefer the size and hands of Allen.

-O. Beckham has all the talent in the world, but can be kind of a mental case and might cause issues with his antics.

I'll stop there but you could make those types of arguments if you want. But the flipside of that is that it's not crazy for people to say that they prefer the OTHER guy to Keenan Allen. So, back to my original point: He doesn't belong in the conversation of THE best receiver in the league. It's fair to put him in the next tier down, but that tier has plenty of guys with solid resumés.

 

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2 minutes ago, DannyB said:

Bulk stats. Let's average those out to a per-game basis and turn it into a 16 game full season:

K. Allen: 84 recs, 1036 yards, 5 tds

M. Evans: 76 recs, 1,191 yards, 9 tds

D. Hopkins: 113 recs, 1,472 yards, 10 tds

J. Jones: 100 recs, 1,502 yards, 6 tds

M. Thomas: 126 recs, 1,458 yards, 8 tds*

D. Adams: 109 recs, 1,292 yards, 11 tds

O. Beckham: 84 recs, 1,124 yards, 7 tds

A. Cooper: 84 recs, 1,094 yards, 8 tds

T. Hill: 78 recs, 1,228 yards, 10 tds

A. Robinson: 91 recs, 1,113 yards, 6 tds*

*removed one season from each due to it only being 1 game of data, decided not to add any previous seasons on, since this is just 2017 and onward.

Another note: I just went with straight averages and rounded up or down when I needed a whole number. With receptions or yardage it's not a big deal, but can make TDs seem like a bigger deal. If someone was 8.6 tds they went up to 9, whereas if they were 8.4, they went to 8. So TDs within 1 of each other could be pretty similar.

 

So, I didn't know how this would turn out, and I'm definitely not a slave to just the numbers, but I'm surprised how well this follows what my mind's eye sees on the field: Keenan is fine in all areas, but lacks the eye popping reception numbers, yardage, or TDs, whereas most of these other guys have at least one of those. This data supports my opinion that Julio and Hopkins are clearly ahead. I'm not the biggest Michael Thomas fan but you've probably gotta put him ahead too. From there I think arguments could start to be made if you want to put K.A. ahead of other guys with better numbers:

-Davante has clearly superior numbers, and there's no doubt he's good as hell, but he also has Rodgers at QB and has been the ONLY reliable receiving target over this time span. If we had KA instead of Davante, might his numbers be better than they have been in SD/LA?

-Mike Evans is a better athlete and makes acrobatic, impressive TD catches. But when I watch him play I also think he's kind of an idiot as far as football IQ. Some may prefer the headier, safer play of Allen.

-Tyreek Hill is certainly another insanely talented athlete, and is a home run hitter, but he has Mahomes. Furthermore, some may prefer the size and hands of Allen.

-O. Beckham has all the talent in the world, but can be kind of a mental case and might cause issues with his antics.

I'll stop there but you could make those types of arguments if you want. But the flipside of that is that it's not crazy for people to say that they prefer the OTHER guy to Keenan Allen. So, back to my original point: He doesn't belong in the conversation of THE best receiver in the league. It's fair to put him in the next tier down, but that tier has plenty of guys with solid resumés.

 

When you say elite, im thinking top 5 to 6. Considering at minimum there is what 96 starting wrs? When saying top 5 to 6, as you illustrated, KA13 definitely has an argument as a top 4 to 6 guy.

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2 minutes ago, Bearerofnews said:

When you say elite, im thinking top 5 to 6. Considering at minimum there is what 96 starting wrs? When saying top 5 to 6, as you illustrated, KA13 definitely has an argument as a top 4 to 6 guy.

Eh, that's a semantics debate I'm not looking to get into. If you think he's a top 5ish guy, and that's how you wanna define elite, that's fine.

To me, he's really good, and has become very steady and reliable (which is no small thing) after an injury-plagued few seasons there. I've never considered him to be one of those singular force WRs that bend defenses towards them like like Julio, AB, Nuk, early OBJ, prime Fitz, etc.

IMO it gets too mucky after the top 2 or 3 guys to put him cleanly as a top 5 or 6 guy, but top 10 seems pretty inarguable.

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Just now, RuskieTitan said:

So how hot does Mike McCarthy's seat get this season? Does he get a pass, or does his team giving up on him / looking dead sink him as a one-and-done.

I really hope we fire him...but doubt it happens.

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11 minutes ago, RuskieTitan said:

So how hot does Mike McCarthy's seat get this season? Does he get a pass, or does his team giving up on him / looking dead sink him as a one-and-done.

Nolan should 100% be fired. If Mike wont do it, then he can get fired as well. 

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18 minutes ago, DannyB said:

Eh, that's a semantics debate I'm not looking to get into. If you think he's a top 5ish guy, and that's how you wanna define elite, that's fine.

To me, he's really good, and has become very steady and reliable (which is no small thing) after an injury-plagued few seasons there. I've never considered him to be one of those singular force WRs that bend defenses towards them like like Julio, AB, Nuk, early OBJ, prime Fitz, etc.

IMO it gets too mucky after the top 2 or 3 guys to put him cleanly as a top 5 or 6 guy, but top 10 seems pretty inarguable.

Like you mention, durability and availability are very important aspects in measuring the quality of players. But as for WRs that bend defenses, that depends. Since 2017, KA has converted more 3rd downs than any other WR. I'd say that is bending defenses and being critical in sustaining drives.

It seems like with WRs if you aren't the deep threat, some people are too quick to disregard you. But guys like Allen, Thomas and D Adams do the short to intermediate things as good if not better than the top 2 guys. 

It is semantics, maybe. At the end of the day, i feel comfortable and unbiased saying KA is a top 5 WR, when not singling a individual trait as being more important, but rather in totality of value and quality. 

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4 minutes ago, Bearerofnews said:

It is semantics, maybe. At the end of the day, i feel comfortable and unbiased saying KA is a top 5 WR, when not singling a individual trait as being more important, but rather in totality of value and quality. 

Yeah like I said, I think that's totally fair, and defensible. But to say it's a crime that he's not unanimously regarded as such. This whole thing was because Chaz said KA doesn't get the recognition since he's not a diva. I was merely asking who he thinks it's not fair that he doesn't get mentioned over. It's fine if someone puts him top 5, but I also don't think it's crazy to prefer other receivers. I'm not sure what receivers he was referring to that get undue recognition and praise. As I went through, there are over a half dozen guys with resumes as good as KA, so it's certainly not criminal if they get recognition. The one name I came up with is maybe OBJ. He gets as much press as any receiver in the league, whereas his actual on-field production has been lacking in recent years.

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Standings after week 7

AFC

# N WLT Div
1 PIT.svg 6-0 1-0
5 BAL.svg 5-1 2-0
6 CLE.svg 5-2 2-2
12 CIN.svg 1-5-1 0-3
# S WLT Div
3 TEN.svg 5-1 2-0
7 IND.svg 4-2 0-1
14 JAC.svg 1-5 1-2
15 HOU.svg 1-6 1-1
# E WLT Div
4 BUF.svg 5-2 3-0
8 MIA.svg 3-3 1-2
11 NE.svg 2-4 1-0
16 NYJ.svg 0-7 0-3
# W WLT Div
2 KC.svg 6-1 2-1
9 LV.svg 3-3 1-0
10 DEN.svg 2-4 0-1
13 LAC.svg 1-4 0-1
 

NFC

# N WLT Div
1 GB.svg 5-1 2-0
5 CHI.svg 5-2 1-0
10 DET.svg 3-3 0-2
14 MIN.svg 1-5 0-1
# S WLT Div
3 TB.svg 5-2 1-1
8 NO.svg 4-2 2-0
11 CAR.svg 3-4 1-2
16 ATL.svg 1-6 0-1
# E WLT Div
4 PHI.svg 2-4-1 1-1
12 WAS.svg 2-5 2-1
13 DAL.svg 2-5 1-1
15 NYG.svg 1-6 1-2
# W WLT Div
2 SEA.svg 5-1 0-1
6 ARI.svg 5-2 2-0
7 LA.svg 5-2 0-1
9 SF.svg 4-3 1-?
Edited by Malfatron
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